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Can it be done?

Many have tried it before. Many have failed. Many continue to try. Many wish they could do it. Many have called it an "experiment" while trying it. Let's see where I fit in. Not an "experiment", but that's what can be "risked" right now!

I am sure the first post is self explanatory as to the purpose of doing this. The journey started last Friday. I am planning to post P&L at the end of each week. May or may not trade tomorrow.

Friday's P&L:

Week one is over. Actually traded today as well. You have no idea what it feels like to trade an account this size! As I said, I will post P&L's on a weekly basis.

Here's the results for Tuesday:

Here's the results for Wednesday:

Here's the results for Thursday:

Somehow Tuesday's results did not come up. In case, here it is again:

And here's the results for today! Back at it on Monday for the start of week two. Have a great weekend everyone!

Tell us more about your strategy?

Thanks!

__________________
"Happiness has little to do with the circumstances you find yourself in, but rather what your attitude is towards your circumstances."

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Quote from gotta_trade:

Tell us more about your strategy?

Thanks!

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I will share more details as we go.

And leverage up? With an account this size?

Just to recap again, I have read about and/or followed many on ET who have attempted at the "small account" trading endeavor, whether by choice, whether by force, and whether they were attempting to lure people to the ultimate dream by wanting to sell their magical indicators/systems/subscription service. So I thought to myself, why not do it and document it here? Again, to those who are the futures traders here, especially when the volatility is there, you know what it feels like treading water with an account this size!

Can it be done?

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Quote from HATEtheRisk:

looks good.

dont stop !!!

But you must leverage up.

i want see next week every day at least 1k profit a day,
and to finish the week, 2k on friday !!!

you can do this, i know it.
just grow urself out of that pennies profits.
You are a trader and not working for walmart, so MAKE MORE MONEY !!!

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

I will share more details as we go.

And leverage up? With an account this size?

Just to recap again, I have read about and/or followed many on ET who have attempted at the "small account" trading endeavor, whether by choice, whether by force, and whether they were attempting to lure people to the ultimate dream by wanting to sell their magical indicators/systems/subscription service. So I thought to myself, why not do it and document it here? Again, to those who are the futures traders here, especially when the volatility is there, you know what it feels like treading water with an account this size!

Can it be done?

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Well, why wait till Friday to post, since I have the time now and only traded half day. You know, if you put it in perspective of "percentages", it just becomes ridiculous in view of the account size!

I Don't see you mentioning your account size anywhere in the thread, maybe I missed it?

That's what it is all about: "Can 'trading a small account' be done"? See the starting balance a week and a half ago on Friday.

What can I say, I just know what to do on days like today, even with an account this size!

Got chopped up, churned, and could not get anything going thereafter.

The NQ with $5 a tick value is becoming a bit of nuisance. Better stick with the 6's! Have a good weekend.

ScalperTrader Method

Hi ST,

Do you mind sharing your method? Thanks in advance.

CH

I have been thinking about whether we should get into discussing strategy. Perhaps we could, and perhaps it can be done! Let me set the stage with a broad broad premise: It's not on the chart, and I hardly use charts. I do have them on the screen, but they seldom influence my entries.

Tuesday's:

Thursday's:

Today's:

I would also be very happy to hear a bit about your strategy since i guess you are reading the order flow to take trade and that's what i'm looking to do.

Regards,

OrderFlow

I hate losses! I just could not "read" the market on Monday. Hey, it happens to the best of us!

Monday's:

Back to the routine today! I'd like to start recording my screen during a trading session to get the discussion going. The dome, bid and ask sizes, and order flow had a lot of good information as to the supply and demand and which way it was tilted. Again, the same information lines up on any chart, but that's how I do it.

Tuesday's:

Got a head start with the overnight session, and got done early. The 6's pay well, so why bother with the NQ! Again, the leverage, margin, account size, actual contract spec of 125,000 Euros, and volatility and daily range makes it all seemingly insane! But I think it can be done.

Wednesday's:

I believe the same tricks the algos/bots play in the 6's also play in the TF. So I pulled it up 10 mins. before the close, observed the dome for 5 mins., and it became very clear which side needed the liquidity! At least 20 ticks were available for the grabs in very quick fashion into the close.

Today's:

Here's for the TF trade:

if the results you are posting are coming out of a real account (and are not fake), dude you are awesome.

Why not tell us something more, drop a few hints so that at least unprofitable traders can stop losing much money!!

The results are real and from a real account. For the time being, let's just stick to the purpose of why I am doing this (first post). Today marks the end of the third week. I am still contemplating the idea how I can best articulate how I trade, short of a live recorded session which I am planning on to do.

Today should have been twice as much easily. Had to leave early. Again, let's put the account size, leverage, and profits into perspective. It's ridiculous!

Also, just to put the real/SIM account issue to rest, to those how use X_Trader, you would clearly see the first Fill Window is from the SIM account, which I used to simply demonstrate the distinguishing features (Exch. and Contract), vs. Fill Window 4 for the real account, illustrating a nice real profit! Btw, non-farm payroll day pushed me into dabbling at the NQ!

Have a good weekend.

First, I LOVE the fact this is exactly what they say you CANT do and doesnt exist at all. "scalping/daytrading doesnt exist its only pretend..."

Keep going!! one trade at a time, single after single!!

Also why share strategy? I assume you worked too hard? Thats how i feel.

Keep posting man, great thread. Keep it up

good stuff, curious to know what the account balance is at this time. Keep up the good work, very inspirational.

Thanks for the kind words. And yes, it is purely scalping, to its truest form. And yes, I worked hard at it, and have paid my dues, but the market is so much bigger than that (and the ones we are competing against) it would not matter if everyone on ET learned to do this and took the same side of the trade! Good day, a few more scalps than usual considering I traded the first hour only.

Not much, seemingly. But again, put the account size, leverage, and percentages in perspective, and it's something. Also, it's all about making little profits day in and day out. Believe me, it will start to add up!

I just could not get a thing going today. Should have been a great day, but I was "trying" to scalp the long side only! Go figure. BUT, and I mean BUT, if you can manage to still make money if you are doing everything wrong with an account of this size, imagine what you can do when you are doing it right! It's all about managing the stop losses, and making profits everyday, albeit very little! I think, "it can be done!"

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

Here's the results for Wednesday:

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__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

attaboy!

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

Thanks for the kind words. And yes, it is purely scalping, to its truest form. And yes, I worked hard at it, and have paid my dues, but the market is so much bigger than that (and the ones we are competing against) it would not matter if everyone on ET learned to do this and took the same side of the trade! Good day, a few more scalps than usual considering I traded the first hour only.

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how about some explanation of what you look for?

Bids/offers refreshing? size hitting the market but not going bid or offer? come on, don't be shy Why the 6's too? Why not the tnote or something?

You can stop avoiding the questions now if you like ;) Yes okay it can be done, we get it. I think it's the "how" that has everyone caught up, obviously it can be done otherwise 95% of the guys here wouldn't be here.

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Quote from booked:

obviously it can be done otherwise 95% of the guys here wouldn't be here.

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Don't bother. Pilaging other people's trading accounts is NOT the way to earn a decent living... The Bible even warned of this evil. Look up speculation/speculator in the Bible...

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

I don't quite understand what that means and what you are referring to? The whole purpose of this journal is to explore and find out if it can be done (considering all the parameters)!

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

I just could not get a thing going today. Should have been a great day, but I was "trying" to scalp the long side only! Go figure. BUT, and I mean BUT, if you can manage to still make money if you are doing everything wrong with an account of this size, imagine what you can do when you are doing it right! It's all about managing the stop losses, and making profits everyday, albeit very little! I think, "it can be done!"

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Quote from pattern43:

Don't bother. Pilaging other people's trading accounts is NOT the way to earn a decent living... The Bible even warned of this evil. Look up speculation/speculator in the Bible...

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Quote from fishing:

how could you be flat (no position) with only 3 trades (total 3 lots traded)??

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Quote from pattern43:

The Bible even warned of this evil. Look up speculation/speculator in the Bible...

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Very broadly: It cannot be done on SIM. SIM is great to get your feet wet, but you have to go through thousands of hours of riding the "trading a live account" emotional roller coaster, losing and making money. Then and only then, you have to strive to become "gross" profitable (profits excluding commish/exchange fees, etc.). For me, once I reached that point of "gross" profitability, things turned around! So, instead of trying to become profitable on SIM, start with very very small size/account and try to become "gross" profitable.

One tick at a time, and it starts to add up at the end of the day, week, month, year, etc.:

applejuice
06-14-11 09:41 PM
"Staring at orderbook for 1 year. Insane?"
"I have a mind to stare at the orderbook of a particular product (eurostoxx 50 as it goes) for a few hours each day, for 1 year."


booked
06-20-11 04:08 AM
"I have done it, best thing I ever did. You should do it. Make sure you record everything, try everything and make as many trades as you can(if you're on sim) to gain as much experience as you can, sure it takes a long time but eventually you will start to see people and not just numbers."


31st July: Quit my Job
4th August: Became a barman
15th November: Funded Velocity Futures free X-Trader Account ($15,800)
Been watching L2 orderflow, recording every session with Camtasia, and uploading videos privately to youtube along with my own annotations.

Reading this thread with some interest.

Scalper - Liquidity Question

Scalper,

Can you elaborate on your statement "it became very clear which side needed the liquidity". Also, is there a reason you don't trade ES?

Thank you

Can you elaborate on your statement "it became very clear which side needed the liquidity".


-Took the words out of my mouth.

Applejuice. I'm assuming he meant that whichever way to market had moved during the day, it became apparent that the longs that had driven the market up had to sell the last 30 minutes. Or vice versa.

I've never understood why there appears to be covering on some days in the last 30 minutes of trading, and other days it just continues in whatever direction of the day.

I have traded the ES, and it really does not matter what you trade. Just pick one contract/stock and stick to it. The 6’s have had great range lately.

OK, as to liquidity, again, the whole idea is the fundamental concept of supply and demand. What I try to do on the MD Trader/Dome/Matrix/Price ladder, etc. is to figure out 1) which side is in charge and wants to move the market and 2) in order to do that, how/where/when they are going to find the liquidity to do that?

Take a look at the attached MD Trader from the other day on the 6E: now, just because size is stacked on the ask does not mean there are “more sellers” and the price will go down. In this case, it turned out to be that way, but the key/hint is the fact that HOD was 1.3819! Do you understand why that’s an important hint?

Take a look at the attached basic chart for those who use charts: do you see how it correlates to the size stacked on the ask at the same level as the last swing? You bet it traded down to 1.3796 and further!

And the chart:

This is not something you can accomplish like turning on switch. You have to grow into these types of numbers. The OP is trading very well and I suspect within his comfort level. The larger P/L will come with time. Goal #1: Stay in the game.

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Quote from HATEtheRisk:

looks good.

dont stop !!!

But you must leverage up.

i want see next week every day at least 1k profit a day,
and to finish the week, 2k on friday !!!

you can do this, i know it.
just grow urself out of that pennies profits.
You are a trader and not working for walmart, so MAKE MORE MONEY !!!

---

Agree with that. I could trade without charts but they are a valuable tool for interpreting price action. However, you can get a feel for that by watching order flow. It's not an easy transition to make, however. A lot of traders have a hard time going from the pit to a screen, for a variety of reasons some of which border on illegal trading.

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

I have been thinking about whether we should get into discussing strategy. Perhaps we could, and perhaps it can be done! Let me set the stage with a broad broad premise: It's not on the chart, and I hardly use charts. I do have them on the screen, but they seldom influence my entries.

Tuesday's:

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

I have traded the ES, and it really does not matter what you trade. Just pick one contract/stock and stick to it. The 6’s have had great range lately.

OK, as to liquidity, again, the whole idea is the fundamental concept of supply and demand. What I try to do on the MD Trader/Dome/Matrix/Price ladder, etc. is to figure out 1) which side is in charge and wants to move the market and 2) in order to do that, how/where/when they are going to find the liquidity to do that?

Take a look at the attached MD Trader from the other day on the 6E: now, just because size is stacked on the ask does not mean there are “more sellers” and the price will go down. In this case, it turned out to be that way, but the key/hint is the fact that HOD was 1.3819! Do you understand why that’s an important hint?

Take a look at the attached basic chart for those who use charts: do you see how it correlates to the size stacked on the ask at the same level as the last swing? You bet it traded down to 1.3796 and further!

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

I have traded the ES, and it really does not matter what you trade. Just pick one contract/stock and stick to it. The 6’s have had great range lately.

OK, as to liquidity, again, the whole idea is the fundamental concept of supply and demand. What I try to do on the MD Trader/Dome/Matrix/Price ladder, etc. is to figure out 1) which side is in charge and wants to move the market and 2) in order to do that, how/where/when they are going to find the liquidity to do that?

Take a look at the attached MD Trader from the other day on the 6E: now, just because size is stacked on the ask does not mean there are “more sellers” and the price will go down. In this case, it turned out to be that way, but the key/hint is the fact that HOD was 1.3819! Do you understand why that’s an important hint?

Take a look at the attached basic chart for those who use charts: do you see how it correlates to the size stacked on the ask at the same level as the last swing? You bet it traded down to 1.3796 and further!

---

Well if I'm thinking correctly. Buyers would be in control by showing a heavy offer so they scoop up the selling pressure offers. Buyers needed the liquidity. I may be way off though. If buyers needed the liquidity it would make sense that they would push the liquidity in their favor.

Please help if I'm way off.

Thanks

Back again.

IF the sellers want to move the market, they need buyers to come in the area they want to sell. Then they can cause a chain reaction by showing large offers and then picking off the bids, thus causing a chain reaction.

Another thought just occurred. If the shorts at the HOD want to cover their shorts, they need downward pressure so they can actually BUY to cover. Therefore they want liquidity on the downside so they can cover without moving the market against them. SO, show a large offer.

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Quote from desktop22:

Well if I'm thinking correctly. Buyers would be in control by showing a heavy offer so they scoop up the selling pressure offers. Buyers needed the liquidity. I may be way off though. If buyers needed the liquidity it would make sense that they would push the liquidity in their favor.

Please help if I'm way off.

Thanks

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I am a bit pressed for time to dedicate to ET these days, but I will try to collectively reply to the previous posts from fishing, Dino, desktop, and a couple of PMs.

We will try to build on this one step at a time, and believe me, it will take time. But as the first step, let's focus on and try to spot the size, and perhaps if it makes it easier to correlate it to what you are used to seeing on the chart, use the chart along side with your dome. Then and only then, we will try to get into the discussion of:

whether the size is real, whether the size is trying to spoof the market, whether the size intends to trade that size, for example, unloading his long position (with a profit) or covering his short position (with a profit), whether the size is initiating a short position at that level or initiating a long position, etc. There are many scenarios that can relate to "size", but as I said, stick with one contract to trade and try to look for "size" on your dome as a starting point. All I can tell you that there is a reason behind it.

Lastly, I am not trying to invent the wheel here, many people trade the same way, as there are 1000s of different systems/indicators/chart patterns that many use very successfully everyday.

Now take a look at the CL (my old favorite!) on Friday. Pay attention to the size, and of course, the HOD.

And here's the chart that correlates to the MD Trader.

And for the BUT:

The key is whether the price is approaching the HOD or coming off the HOD. Or stated differently, when was the HOD established (and similarly for the LOD). Remember, whether you are looking at the dome or any type of chart, the price is the price!

And here's where it went a few minutes later!

Missed a lot of the action today. I was able to take a few screenshots of NQ very quickly (left to right). It's not about catching bottoms, but if you think in terms of "liquidity" and "size", the bounce was the quickest and surest money I made today! And that's why I just did not let this one go with a few ticks and manually moved my stop up.

Thanks ST,

If spotting size is so important, why not display 20 price levels on MD Trader rather than the 10 only that you have?

How is an offer 5 ticks away from the the inside market relevant. Those might or might not be real. Don't see how you can make decisions by what is going on with the bids/offers so far away from the market.

So what do you read into the large offers at 225 and 275 in the frist screen when the momentum is up? Your previous examples showed large offers and the market went straight down?

Thanks

agree with desktop22 here, just showing screenshots of a large bid or offer is of no use, I see them all the time but they pop up and disappear just as fast, surely you don't just enter short as soon as you see a big offer appear? do you front run it or wait to see if its real and then if it holds, what if it gets taken out? Do you go with it or against?

I can show you about a million screen shots where there are large bids or offers away from the market, doesn't mean it was a good short or long at that point, a little more info might be helpful, like what actually gets you in the trade?

EDIT: Ahh my apologies, didn't see your explanation about taking it one thing at a time, as you were

How do you handle closes? As you can see...."Size" is everywhere.

Okay. I saw some large offers in NQ keep moving their offers higher to make market appear that it was going higher. All the while, they were getting short...big time. I had no idea someone was capable of taking that much size. As I watched, I knew if I was right, the size that had been getting short was going to slam the market when the buying died down. Sure enough they did. I never realized how much size some of these guys can accumulate. The trick seems to be picking when they are going to go the other way. The retail trader usually can't let his/her position go against them while they watch this going on. Seems like you have to pick a good spot to go with the size when they are ready to reverse. Otherwise you might see what's going on, but have to bail out before they make their move. The big guys can afford to have the market move against them 5,10,15+ ticks while they are getting ready...I can't. There lies the rub.

Just a comment. Big bids and offers have been used by many (perhaps less scrupulous) traders over the years to throw off robots and "level 2 reading courses" LOL... so, don't put any faith in anything more than a tick or two away, they are generally programs that suddenly disappear.

FWIW,

Don

__________________
Don Bright (not an alias)
Bright Trading, LLC
http://www.stocktrading.com

These big offers that were "more than a tick or two away" were getting filled as well. I don't think anyone places a trade because they see large bid or offer.

So how is it going over the last few days??.........or do you only post the good days?

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Quote from booked:

So how is it going over the last few days??.........or do you only post the good days?

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How is it going ScalperTrader?

I think the answer is YES!

The new question is:

Can it be done using Ve***ity's "free" X_trader, where the odds are stacked against you because of the high $5.44 commission/RT?

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

Missed a lot of the action today. I was able to take a few screenshots of NQ very quickly (left to right). It's not about catching bottoms, but if you think in terms of "liquidity" and "size", the bounce was the quickest and surest money I made today! And that's why I just did not let this one go with a few ticks and manually moved my stop up.

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Quote from ScalperTrader:
We will try to build on this one step at a time, and believe me, it will take time. But as the first step, let's focus on and try to spot the size, and perhaps if it makes it easier to correlate it to what you are used to seeing on the chart, use the chart along side with your dome. Then and only then, we will try to get into the discussion...

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Size on the Bids that correlate to the lows on the chart.

Now it is 4 levels of big bids. Again in the same area as the first picture.

Size at 1.3360 on Bid. Is it real?

Was it real?

No action for a couple of weeks, and will probably be the same through the holidays, as usually is the case for me.

I think this Journal has served its purpose, but I have received a number of PMs re helping others, which I would like to do, but I have never been an “educator” when it comes to trading. Again, as I am pressed for time, I am trying to collectively respond to the previous posts and the PMs. Perhaps the following will clarify some issues.

This was not meant to be an educational Journal; what I have learnt it’s been pretty much on my own.

Let’s go back to why I started this journal, and why I think it has served its purpose to some extent. It’s not that you cannot trade futures with a $2K account, but the fact is that the “account balance” simply has no correlation with your “consistently successful” trading. There are so many other methods/system/strategies ect. out there, and there so many people making insane profits just doing that by the virtue of having a large account. What I wanted to show is that you can test your abilities and skills as a trader – a consistently profitable trader – if you can do this. Sure there are other ways to do and prove this, but doing it this way adds a flavor of creating something inspirational for others.

Along the way, the discussion slowly has changed to how it can be done. As I have said before, I don’t believe in analyzing charts and to me, the past is the past, what I try to do is to “participate” in the action now. And that’s where the order flow and liquidity concepts come in together with “size”. In order to successfully and consistently trade this way, you have to be able to discern which side is in charge, and as a result, wants the liquidity. Let me ask you this: if there is a large buyer in the market wanting to grab everything in sight, would you be a seller? No, you’d want to tag along the ride on the long side with your 1 lot, but get off the ride very quickly with a couple of ticks to minimize risk. BUT, how do you if there’s a large buyer wanting to sweep every single one those contracts on the ask side (vice versa with a large seller)? That’s the key! I think some or a lot of you are just simply confused by looking at “size” on the bid or ask on a few levels deep. That’s one piece of the puzzle – a very important piece, but it does not convey anything on its own.

Let me throw in another piece of the puzzle out there: You have to be able to discern which way the market is coming off in order to be able to figure out which way it is going with the “size” being your GPS! E.g. don’t just look at the size on the ask side and think either 1) Large sellers, size is real, market is going down, or 2) Size is trying to spoof the market to sell because they want to be buyers without tipping their hand! There is no other outcome. Remember, the price is either going up or down. But, imagine, for example, if you paid attention to the fact that for example the market was approaching the HOD (or LOD) OR was coming off the HOD (or LOD) (because these are the easiest points to pick out in a day, but there are other pivots that you can pick out with experience). If you pay attention to this, then believe me when I tell you that “size” will have a meaning – whether real or spoof – whether algos/bots flashing – it will mean something!

How does scalping come into the picture? Well, that’s how I minimize my risk: by having a shorter time in the market with an open position! Many people think of minimizing risk by the size of the position or the cents/ticks stop loss, but think about the time factor. Sure I miss a lot of good waves to ride with large swings, but I’d rather take my few ticks consistently get flat as soon as I can.

Again, I think a lot of you have misconstrued the “size” factor and what it represents. I think you are looking for a cookie cutter type of indicator that perhaps “signals” a buy or sell if there is a large “size” showing up. “Size” is only one piece of the puzzle, perhaps, a bolt in an engine having many complex and moving parts. But it is an important piece of the puzzle. Remember, there are 1000s of different ways to trade, and charts are always popular; you don’t have to learn this if to become a profitable trader.

It really does not matter what you trade. The same principles apply, whether it’s CL, NG, the 6’s, ES, NQ, etc. If you stick with one, and you can do it with 1 lot, imagine this: by the time you are up to 3 lots, you’d be making a great living.

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Quote from ScalperTrader: "Sure there are other ways to do and prove this, but doing it this way adds a flavor of creating something inspirational for others".

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"In order to successfully and consistently trade this way, you have to be able to discern which side is in charge, and as a result, wants the liquidity."

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"Let me ask you this: if there is a large buyer in the market wanting to grab everything in sight, would you be a seller? No, you�d want to tag along the ride on the long side with your 1 lot, but get off the ride very quickly with a couple of ticks to minimize risk."

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"BUT, how do you if there�s a large buyer wanting to sweep every single one those contracts on the ask side (vice versa with a large seller)?"

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"'Size' is only one piece of the puzzle, perhaps, a bolt in an engine."

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"It really does not matter what you trade. The same principles apply, whether it�s CL, NG, the 6�s, ES, NQ, etc. If you stick with one, and you can do it with 1 lot, imagine this: by the time you are up to 3 lots, you�d be making a great living."

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Back by popular demand in 2012! Just going back to the original intent of the Journal, even though it can be done! On the other hand, perhaps will start posting in the Trader P/L 2012 thread (although some big numbers are being posted there ). The trading may be sporadic and not everyday, so we start by counting the days that are actually traded. And, the 6's are my bread an butter!

Day 1 (beginning balance starting in Feb. - will post end balance at the end of month):

Day 2 (three turns on the TF as well):

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

Day 2 (three turns on the TF as well):

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Good to have you back Will be interesting to see how you go. I sent you a PM btw.

With the 6's, they obviously do their own thing? I would've thought they are just tracking spot and algos/computers are keeping it all in line so they wouldn't do their own thing? But obviously I guess they do? Like big bids for example, does it mean anything if spot is selling off?(because its just going to track that?)

Just something I've wondered about the 6s, obviously there is something there otherwise you wouldn't trade them but curious as to how much they do their own thing.

Spent a little time trading this morning and I had to "earn" every tick - literally! Even with the TF! But for sure it was earned.

Day 3:

In the 6's, of course there's a correlation with the spot, of course there's plenty of arbs and algos that wreak havoc in there from time to time, of course there is spoofing with large bids and asks, etc. But I don't look for them and they don't matter. Many traders do, understand them, and make a ton of profits trading them. Once I know the "intent" of the market, there is not a fast enough bot or a spoofing algo that can not allow me to get filled to the tick (with my one lot ) or get me stopped out. I scalp, get in, get out - but throw in the above recipe/knowledge/experience, and then you've minimized the risk for each scalp and tilt the odds in your favor.

All you needed was just to wait for today - the ECB Min Bid Rate and GB Rate Statement would make the 6E move around nicely! Not to mention the news out of Greece and some sort of agreement. Got greedy on some trades - because the damn thing would not stop! LOL! Tried to take some screen shots as well.

Day 4:

Example of where I got in:

The reason to trail this one:

And perhaps a simple chart for those who are still using one!

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

And perhaps a simple chart for those who are still using one!

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nice work.

Why was the "intent"(however you figure that out) to be short on that run up? that looks like it was a fairly decent push up, so it was going back to the HOD....what happens when its an up trend and goes on to break to new highs like its done all year, or can you see when it has that "intent" too?

Such a pity you won't explain a little about how you do it, the size thing baffles me, nearly every bit of size I see is fake, maybe its just when it is real and starts printing into it, and its at its HOD then that's a good short, dunno.

Still, as mysterious as you are, impressive results/consistency

The chart is still a good tool as, for example, providing confirmation - visually - where important levels are, which will always be confirmed with size (or lack thereof) at that level. So, yes, I can trade with a chart, and I do glance at them, but they don't provide the whole picture and what I look for because all I need and look for is on MD Trader (dome/matrix) and happening live in front of my eyes.

I am not being mysterious, but it seems a little difficult articulating what I look for since it all seems so experiential and truly learned (if you ever learn anything from trading ) by spending hours and hours watching, as it becomes second nature to your eyes.

On that run up and why I initiated a short there, please consider the following factors:

1) Make the distinction between whether the big players were liquidating their longs for a profit, or initiating a short position? They both are considered a "sell", but if you say they were shorting, then you were playing pick the top game - very dangerous. The way I was reading it seemed that the big money needed to liquidate some of their longs with a profit, and in order to do so, they needed the "bids" or, what's that word - aha - "liquidity" on the buy side to sell to them! But as I have said before, how to do you do that without tipping your hand and without moving the market against you 10s of ticks? See where I am going with this . . . you did not end up picking a top, and you minimized the risk by not trying to get long and getting stopped out.

2) Also, short of reading the tape (T&S), pay attention to the speed, size, and the side that the prints are being traded on your matrix.

This whole thing is seemingly so abstract and it is so hard to explain because it requires watching this "live" as it happens, and because at the end of the day, this type of trading is all about participation - participating in the market - rather than predicting based on what you see on the chart.

Ahh that's more like it Very good


So what sort of parameters do you use, as far as stopping out and targets you aim to get, do you just have a certain price where you think something is being done(or where size is) and if it goes through that's it you're out straight away for a tick or two? Do you try and stay in it until you see something that makes you want to trade back the other way or do you have a definite X ticks you always try to take?

I wish I could sit behind you and watch while you trade, you should do a video! Keep it up

here's my effort for today

I just have not had any time to keep up with this. But today, as on Wednesdays, Crude Inventories report draws me to the CL! But if you think the bots/algos are eating your lunch and wreaking havoc in the 6s, then you have to watch the CL! Here's an interesting article:

http://www.economist.com/node/21547988

Btw, I was watching/trading the CL when the Infinium trade happened in 2010!

Anyhow, I was quick enough to click on the "PrintScreen" button to take a screen shot of the MD Trader when this size showed up!

Will try to take more of these screen shots if I am quick enough - and I am quick when it comes to scalping!

Think I saw an NQ DOM with 1000 on the bid today.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

Absolutely. The "1000er" on the NQ has been a "regular" for quite a while now. But the idea is, it just does not show up for the bragging rights! LOL! Whether on the bid or ask, whether it's a spoof, whether it gets flipped, or even gets filled and traded, there is a "reason" behind it! So try to pay attention to it next time you spot it.

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

Absolutely. The "1000er" on the NQ has been a "regular" for quite a while now. But the idea is, it just does not show up for the bragging rights! LOL! Whether on the bid or ask, whether it's a spoof, whether it gets flipped, or even gets filled and traded, there is a "reason" behind it! So try to pay attention to it next time you spot it.

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__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

92 block traded at 603 today CL

Look a little more than half way down the T and S ladder you'll see it

On 5 min chart Bullish hammer pattern occured right around that price.

anyone watching CL just now? 520(or 540, can't remember) popped up on the low on the bid, was spoofing, pulled it, then there was the 100 lot sitting at 105.70, went down to test it, nothing happened, must've been real I think, now its nearly back to 106 flat.

Why spoof the 500 lot ScalperTrader? I have never understood why they do this, on any market, spoof massive amounts, it must be purely an algo trying to spoof another algo into doing something, wouldn't make sense for a human to do it(as if someone is going to go long 540 lots on CL all at once).


.....probably pushes it higher, into which they're actually selling maybe, lets see if it comes back off to a new low it's currently @ 105.90

lol nope, higher it is

I've seen the 400-500 lot flasher before, shows up right before a big momentum move. 400 some odd lots showed up on the bid at 106.99 around 11:52-11:53 with price at 107.08, before the move to 108.24. I bet if you watch the book from 11:43-11:45 some bid size spoofed also.


From 11:15-11:41 was an interesting period, seemed like someone had both sides bracketed. With price moving back and forth between 106.48-106.62 range,There were 80+ lots on ask at 106.62, 106.64, 106.66 each. Below the range, 100 lot was at 106.50, it got hit into, then at 11:29 price tagged 106.48, it moved higher a few ticks, then 120+ lots showed up at 106.48, 'defending' it I suppose. Price broke out higher after that.


Some notes I have from Friday 3/9/12, that same 500 lot flasher was there each momentum move higher. One time 180 lots, another time 550 lots showed up a few ticks below best bid just a few seconds before the momentum moves higher. 524 lots at 9:49:44 before a 30-tick upmove. The 108 levels that got rejected at 10:41, 10:58 both had 100 some odd lots sitting above.......



All that being said, I haven't looked at all my recordings yet, but I'd imagine every move has size sitting above or below, not sure how to determine which ones will hold or not.


I was short 11:01-11:02 this morning because there was size (believe 90 lot) at 106.36. But they barreled right through that one.

At the 12:23 HOD today, there was a 212 lot sitting at 107.40. I shorted 107.30, took it off for 10 tics.



Now my head will blow up from watching size levels. Thanks for reading.

Anyone else watch CL level 2?

What I'm looking for going into close: If we get into 107.30's or we tag 107.40 and size is still there, if it backs off a little I'll try to get short into 107.30's. If they bust through the level, and move into 107.50's and beyond, I'll wait for the upward momentum pause, hope the bid size flasher shows up (150 lot or bigger show up a few ticks below bid), and try to go with it.

100 lot at 106.95, price is 106.98 x 106.99.

*edit: Took out 106.95 size but moved a few ticks higher. 1:21 est. Sim long 107, stop 106.93, target 107.19. Stopped out on that one.

500 lot flash guy showed up at 9:45 at 106.50, didn't seem to help the breakout cause though.

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

I just have not had any time to keep up with this. But today, as on Wednesdays, Crude Inventories report draws me to the CL! But if you think the bots/algos are eating your lunch and wreaking havoc in the 6s, then you have to watch the CL! Here's an interesting article:

http://www.economist.com/node/21547988

Btw, I was watching/trading the CL when the Infinium trade happened in 2010!

Anyhow, I was quick enough to click on the "PrintScreen" button to take a screen shot of the MD Trader when this size showed up!

Will try to take more of these screen shots if I am quick enough - and I am quick when it comes to scalping!

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First, trying to collectively respond to a few PMs and previous posts. Simply do not have the time to dedicate to this Journal.

Second, I would truly sympathize if the concepts and this way of trading is difficult to understand simply because it is difficult to articulate with "static" snap shots of the dome; you really have to watch this live and in action to be able to appreciate the whole concept. And yes, I am aware of the video recording option of a live session!

Third, as I can see from the previous posts and how some of you are speculating as to what may seem to be happening on your domes, there is a huge difference between not knowing the answer and clearly not understanding the question. It appears that many do not seem to understand what it is that you need to look for - which, brings me back full circle to the issue of not being able to watch this live.

Anyhow, some great stuff on the 6E and CL today, and I was able to take a few screen shots . . . .

QUIZ TIME!

736 lots on the bid smack at the LOD 13195! Answer this: Can you tell if the size is buying, i.e., initiating a long, or is the size covering; i.e. still considered a "buy", but actually covering a short? I have asked this many times before, and that's how you have to be able to distinguish between the two! It's OK, consult with your charts, indicators (RSI, MACD, MAs, Bollinger, etc.), but if you want to trade (scalp) this way - price action in its purest form - you have to be able to figure out the intent of the market very quickly.

A few minutes later . . .

And the hint (since we are not watching it live) - the size was traded at 13195, and the market is 10 ticks lower! What happened? With that information, would you have gone long and took a 10 tick stop loss - a no no for a scalper? Would you have sold your 1 lot into the 736 on the bid and gone short? You see where I am going with this?

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

A few minutes later . . .

And the hint (since we are not watching it live) - the size was traded at 13195, and the market is 10 ticks lower! What happened? With that information, would you have gone long and took a 10 tick stop loss - a no no for a scalper? Would you have sold your 1 lot into the 736 on the bid and gone short? You see where I am going with this?

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If you don't know what to look for, then you cannot expect to find it! There is a lot of maybes, personally, etc. You are up against algos that can send 1000s of orders in a second, so unless you know what the intent of the market is and can react with confidence and certainty, you have no chance if you want to trade this way! I would not expect anyone to understand this concept or have any slight agreement with anything that I say. There are millions of other ways to trade and to trade very profitably and successfully. But this is only way that I know how to and can scalp.

Another great learning lesson in CL . . . .

Right after the open of the pit session . . . we have size showing up (which is what we look for as the clues) . . . 114 at 105 even bid . . . quick: Is he buying or covering? Where is the market coming off? HOD approaching LOD or bouncing off the LOD?

If you were watching it live with me, you would have seen the 105 was taken out easily. So no spoofing, and it wanted to get traded at that level - but was he covering or buying? Market is down another 13 ticks - wait - 203 lots smack at the new LOD 104.87 bid! What's going on? Another big buyer?

104.87 held, we bounced, but don't take the trade yet - don't be catching the bottom and trade the dead cat bounce - patience for another clue - aha - 101 lots at our good old 105 even bid! Get the clue?

Sweet! As soon as the market went bid at 105 with the size being taken out, this was your absolute bet the farm sure trade! Do you see why? Back to 104.87 with no size in sight! It's a free fall!

And it sure was - certainly more than a scalp! Do you see any size anywhere?

So....what was the reasoning in your opinion behind the first big lot @ 105 then the second lot at 87? Because we went on down to around 104.50 then back up(not that far, especially for crude), those big buyers have a part in that?

So you would have got short after you saw that big size @ 87 pull correct? Do you ever see any weird shit going on before inventories?

So....what was the reasoning in your opinion behind the first big lot @ 105 then the second lot at 87? Because we went on down to around 104.50 then back up(not that far, especially for crude), those big buyers have a part in that?

So you would have got short after you saw that big size @ 87 pull correct?


Looks to me like short covering at 105 and 87.

OK, I am going to give away a little more hint here, and it's not that I am holding back on this stuff, but the fact is that not many are still understanding what it is that we need to look for and where it is we are trying to go with this information. Just throwing some hypothetical out there and using "thinking" and "guessing" does not cut it!

The big money was short and was adding to the short. If you want to keep on shorting, what do you need? You need liquidity, you need buyers so you can sell to them, you need bids! Now, if you have a big short position and you are still accumulating, how do you "protect" your big position?

Moreover, if you have a big short position, where do you want to profitably cover it? What do you need to cover it? Liquidity on the ask! You need sellers so you can buy back your contracts and cover your short! Do you see where I am going with this?

As I said before, this is scalping by means of figuring out the intent of the market and the big money - you have to be able to read your opponent's cards!

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

The big money was short and was adding to the short. If you want to keep on shorting, what do you need? You need liquidity, you need buyers so you can sell to them, you need bids! Now, if you have a big short position and you are still accumulating, how do you "protect" your big position?

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I am not reviving this Journal, and it's been great trading for the past couple of months, especially now that the CL is back on my screen! Just wanted to post this as I was able to quickly take a screen shot of the largest size I have seen on 6E! Can you figure out if the "size" intended to trade at 1.2288? See the large bids at 1.2281, 82 and 83? Are we coming off the LOD? Good trading to everyone!

Just playing around with the overnight session! 6A and CL also provide some good "insights" trading them side-by-side! Maybe will check back a little later, but the size on the ask will be traded on the way up! WHY? See you around 1.2220 levels.

It's been a while since I posted anything. Came across a "Loch Ness Monster" citing on 6J and could not resist to take a screen shot and post it here. This happens perhaps once every year or so on some contracts, and I tell you, when it does, you bet the farm!

It's been a while since I posted anything. Came across a "Loch Ness Monster" citing on 6J and could not resist to take a screen shot and post it here. This happens perhaps once every year or so on some contracts, and I tell you, when it does, you bet the farm!

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

It's been a while since I posted anything. Came across a "Loch Ness Monster" citing on 6J and could not resist to take a screen shot and post it here. This happens perhaps once every year or so on some contracts, and I tell you, when it does, you bet the farm!

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2 years show us what you've accomplished. Put it on the record.

as recently as July 2012 you were trading with 1 lot.

+1700 on 6J isn't to be sniffed at, but by now, if you believed in your strategy, you would have scaled up. That is a fact.

Sure it works in futures. But I bet you not in a way that most of you guys "think" it works. I am sure most are still focused on a simplistic way of discerning "size" without any other dimensions to it.

Since July 2012? Let me tell you, I have been trading 1 lot for almost 4 years now, and will probably continue trading 1 lot for another 4 years! I constantly have the same conversation with other traders saying that changing that little digit from 1 to 10, considering the liquidity available on the 6s, makes no difference. Sure it does not, but go back to the beginning of the thread and read again:

1) It is all about the money: I need to get a paycheck from the market every week. Therefore, the account will never grow to the size that will warrant adding more size/risk. It is the way it is.

2) It is not about the money: I enjoy and take pleasure of knowing - and tagging along with - what the likes of Deutch, Citi, Barclays, UBS, etc. are doing or are about to do!

3) Here is a quote from an article in Bloomberg on JPM: "The firm made money on 220 out of 261 trading days." That is what it's all about - making money everyday!

4) Any trader worth his or her salt knows the psychological factors involved in "size". I simply do not wish to explore that, again, for nothing other than the reasons above.

Here's the cut of the loot for last trading day of February:

If you trade 1 contract because you get nervous when trading size it simply means that you haven't made any real progress in your trading. That's something to think about. honest.

There are easier ways to get rich that are more socially and emotionally rewarding than piking for a couple of hundred bucks.

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Quote from ScalperTrader:

Sure it works in futures. But I bet you not in a way that most of you guys "think" it works. I am sure most are still focused on a simplistic way of discerning "size" without any other dimensions to it.

Since July 2012? Let me tell you, I have been trading 1 lot for almost 4 years now, and will probably continue trading 1 lot for another 4 years! I constantly have the same conversation with other traders saying that changing that little digit from 1 to 10, considering the liquidity available on the 6s, makes no difference. Sure it does not, but go back to the beginning of the thread and read again:

1) It is all about the money: I need to get a paycheck from the market every week. Therefore, the account will never grow to the size that will warrant adding more size/risk. It is the way it is.

2) It is not about the money: I enjoy and take pleasure of knowing - and tagging along with - what the likes of Deutch, Citi, Barclays, UBS, etc. are doing or are about to do!

3) Here is a quote from an article in Bloomberg on JPM: "The firm made money on 220 out of 261 trading days." That is what it's all about - making money everyday!

4) Any trader worth his or her salt knows the psychological factors involved in "size". I simply do not wish to explore that, again, for nothing other than the reasons above.

Here's the cut of the loot for last trading day of February:

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It must be truly rewarding to achieve your level of high percentage profitability.
How many years did it take. Say five and I will spit!

Congrats.

No intention to cross or conflict with other ET "real deals" posts regarding size.
I just haven't seen this type of consistency being the amateur home gamer that I am.

"I have been trading 1 lot for almost 4 years now, and will probably continue trading 1 lot for another 4 years! I constantly have the same conversation with other traders saying that changing that little digit from 1 to 10"

1) It is all about the money: I need to get a paycheck from the market every week. Therefore, the account will never grow to the size that will warrant adding more size/risk. It is the way it is.

- Reader Rage... 6/10

2) It is not about the money: I enjoy and take pleasure of knowing - and tagging along with - what the likes of Deutch, Citi, Barclays, UBS, etc. are doing or are about to do!

- Reader Rage... 10/10

3) Here is a quote from an article in Bloomberg on JPM: "The firm made money on 220 out of 261 trading days." That is what it's all about - making money everyday!

- Reader Rage... 7/10

4) Any trader worth his or her salt knows the psychological factors involved in "size". I simply do not wish to explore that, again, for nothing other than the reasons above.

- Reader Rage... 10/10


Who said anything about going from 1 lot to 10? Just go from 1 lot to 2 frigging lots. If 1700 & 900 +P/L is any indication AT ALL of your general performance, you should have NO TROUBLE putting up the additional margin to safely trade 2 lots.

Not sure if you intended to annoy readers (succeeded with me), or if you are truly deluded. I know a lot of trading forum members are the latter and I feel sorry for them.

"It's been a while since I posted anything. Came across a "Loch Ness Monster" citing on 6J and could not resist to take a screen shot and post it here. This happens perhaps once every year or so on some contracts, and I tell you, when it does, you bet the farm!"

- It comes but once a year. But in your case... you bet... 1 lot? 2 lots?

Nothing to get mad about, and nothing to feel sorry for when they fall flat on their face. Most of em are lying. thats why i ask them to show their profit, they never do

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Quote from applejuice:

"I have been trading 1 lot for almost 4 years now, and will probably continue trading 1 lot for another 4 years! I constantly have the same conversation with other traders saying that changing that little digit from 1 to 10"

1) It is all about the money: I need to get a paycheck from the market every week. Therefore, the account will never grow to the size that will warrant adding more size/risk. It is the way it is.

- Reader Rage... 6/10

2) It is not about the money: I enjoy and take pleasure of knowing - and tagging along with - what the likes of Deutch, Citi, Barclays, UBS, etc. are doing or are about to do!

- Reader Rage... 10/10

3) Here is a quote from an article in Bloomberg on JPM: "The firm made money on 220 out of 261 trading days." That is what it's all about - making money everyday!

- Reader Rage... 7/10

4) Any trader worth his or her salt knows the psychological factors involved in "size". I simply do not wish to explore that, again, for nothing other than the reasons above.

- Reader Rage... 10/10


Who said anything about going from 1 lot to 10? Just go from 1 lot to 2 frigging lots. If 1700 & 900 +P/L is any indication AT ALL of your general performance, you should have NO TROUBLE putting up the additional margin to safely trade 2 lots.

Not sure if you intended to annoy readers (succeeded with me), or if you are truly deluded. I know a lot of trading forum members are the latter and I feel sorry for them.

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