Forums - RIP Thinkorswim

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Posted by Eliot Hosewater on 08-11-11 07:38 PM:

RIP Thinkorswim

Just got email stating that my account will be transferred to TD Ameritrade this weekend.

Dear Valued Client,

We want to let you know that by the opening of business on Monday, August 15, 2011, we will have completed the final step in the integration of thinkorswim and TD Ameritrade. This is happening two weeks earlier than we originally anticipated. We feel it's in the best interests of our clients to combine the benefits of TD Ameritrade's offering with thinkorswim's trading technology as soon as possible.

As we promised you, the trading platform, service and support that you counted on at thinkorswim will remain the same.

Posted by atticus on 08-11-11 07:44 PM:

Yes, my account is inactive, but I look forward to $50k req on 1 short WMT call!

Posted by rew on 08-11-11 09:14 PM:

I haven't traded options on TD Ameritrade in years. Are their option commissions still ludicrous?

Posted by eldorado1 on 08-13-11 09:02 AM:

I hope they are planning on keeping the name TOS at least. I can't be sure by their email

Posted by rickf on 08-13-11 02:08 PM:

Le sigh.

*moment of silence*

Posted by iprph90 on 08-13-11 04:28 PM:

i had a lot of trouble with my fills yesterday morning at open (mainly TLTC). i complained about the bad fills and they gave me a credit which I thought was fair.

Posted by keviniyengar on 08-14-11 03:29 AM:

TD Ameritrade commisions

I pay $5 ticket for equities and $5 + $0.75/contract for equity options.
(No futures !)
I trade a lot and got this over a period of 3 years.
($9.99 >$7>$5 now )

Customer service wise TD is much better than IB which is much cheaper .
I day trade from middle of no where in Asia and it is ok.
(Also opening foreigner a/c is not possible with all small brokers)

I have traded with OXPS also before but they are much more expensive.

Posted by JSHINV on 08-14-11 05:16 AM:

Re: RIP Thinkorswim

Quote from Eliot Hosewater:

Just got email stating that my account will be transferred to TD Ameritrade this weekend.

Yep. Me too. Staying with them for now, see how it goes. Gone are the days when Sheridan would send me a personal email on some question I had. I didn't send an email to him, he just personally responded. Honestly, I don't see what TDA has to offer me. Penson is still going to clear futures - so there will be no expansion of futures products in that area.

Posted by JSHINV on 08-14-11 05:42 AM:

Re: Re: RIP Thinkorswim

Quote from JSHINV:

Yep. Me too. Staying with them for now, see how it goes. Gone are the days when Sheridan would send me a personal email on some question I had. I didn't send an email to him, he just personally responded. Honestly, I don't see what TDA has to offer me. Penson is still going to clear futures - so there will be no expansion of futures products in that area.

Should add there were a couple times I directly emailed Sheridan. Penson pissed me off a couple of times.

Posted by futuresj on 08-14-11 06:31 AM:

Quote from iprph90:

i had a lot of trouble with my fills yesterday morning at open (mainly TLTC). i complained about the bad fills and they gave me a credit which I thought was fair.

Did you happen to have any ordering issues? I was simply trying to close short puts, and their software was rejecting my orders saying "not allowed to open new positions." I contacted support and they did not have a good answer for this issue.

Posted by cloudy on 08-14-11 07:18 AM:

If there's a silver lining, it could be that users with formerly TOS accounts, can now use Ninjatrader with their new TD Ameritrade accounts.

Posted by JSHINV on 08-14-11 07:53 AM:

Quote from cloudy:

If there's a silver lining, it could be that users with formerly TOS accounts, can now use Ninjatrader with their new TD Ameritrade accounts.

I do think TDA is trying to give special consideration for long time TOS account holders that are now TDA account holders. the call us legacy account holders. The Ninjatrader option would be a plus.

Posted by opt789 on 08-14-11 01:35 PM:

They are going through a lot of transitions with the TDA integration, so they do have a reasonable “excuse” for all the problems of late. I started a thread about all the quote problems they are having, and emailed all the information to them. Before TDA I would have gotten a serious answer very quickly, and now they are so busy they just ignore a lot of things. But to be fair I am waiting until they have the integration behind them to see how things go – they say the quote server integration is supposed to happen by the end of the month. That last update they did changed something, I think for the better, but I am not sure yet.

It is hard to find a broker that has nice easy to use full featured software for futures, options, and stocks. My biggest problem now is they seem to want to get rid of futures and futures options traders. They have actually reduced what they offer and not added anything new, and have a lot higher than normal margin for many things. For example, they got rid of most weekly futures options, and now charge $12,000 margin for CL when the normal margin is $8438, which is 42% higher.

Posted by rickf on 08-14-11 01:53 PM:

Quote from JSHINV:

I do think TDA is trying to give special consideration for long time TOS account holders that are now TDA account holders. the call us legacy account holders. The Ninjatrader option would be a plus.

That would rock if they opened it up for futures trading. I suspect it's only for stocks though. Is it?

Posted by deltahedge on 08-14-11 01:59 PM:

Supposedly TDA does have PM (portfolio margin) capabilities and TOS legacy account holders will continue to have PM, but nowhere on TDA's site does it remotely mention PM. On Friday I spoke to Scott Sheridan and ostensibly they will open new PM accounts in a ~ month from now after the integration completes.

I remain skeptical on the conservative Canadian bank, TD, to offer NEW people the chance for PM especially at the current equity requirement of $100K. Our friends north of the border revel in their fiscal conservatism and therefore legacy TOSers (including yours truly) remain hopeful such requirements will not change.

Otherwise hello IB?

Posted by JSHINV on 08-14-11 04:01 PM:

Quote from opt789:

They are going through a lot of transitions with the TDA integration, so they do have a reasonable “excuse” for all the problems of late. I started a thread about all the quote problems they are having, and emailed all the information to them. Before TDA I would have gotten a serious answer very quickly, and now they are so busy they just ignore a lot of things. But to be fair I am waiting until they have the integration behind them to see how things go – they say the quote server integration is supposed to happen by the end of the month. That last update they did changed something, I think for the better, but I am not sure yet.

It is hard to find a broker that has nice easy to use full featured software for futures, options, and stocks. My biggest problem now is they seem to want to get rid of futures and futures options traders. They have actually reduced what they offer and not added anything new, and have a lot higher than normal margin for many things. For example, they got rid of most weekly futures options, and now charge $12,000 margin for CL when the normal margin is $8438, which is 42% higher.

Futures margin is going to be increased for former TOS customers or is that TDA's margin for their own original customers? I don't think they are increasing margin for TOS people or taking away any of the futures products TOS customers had. If I am wrong are they on record with this?

Posted by opt789 on 08-14-11 04:32 PM:

Quote from JSHINV:

Futures margin is going to be increased for former TOS customers or is that TDA's margin for their own original customers? I don't think they are increasing margin for TOS people or taking away any of the futures products TOS customers had. If I am wrong are they on record with this?

I don’t think TDA had futures before they took over TOS, so what I am referring to is the combined company is charging everyone excessively high margins on some futures. Whoever is in charge of futures margins doesn’t know what they are doing. They randomly change things with no mathematical basis on some futures and then don’t raise others when they probably should. So basically your futures margin can change at random times for random reasons and the amount will be random, and they do it without any notification to anyone.

Posted by JSHINV on 08-14-11 05:20 PM:

Quote from opt789:

I don’t think TDA had futures before they took over TOS, so what I am referring to is the combined company is charging everyone excessively high margins on some futures. Whoever is in charge of futures margins doesn’t know what they are doing. They randomly change things with no mathematical basis on some futures and then don’t raise others when they probably should. So basically your futures margin can change at random times for random reasons and the amount will be random, and they do it without any notification to anyone.

Think maybe underlying cause may be with Penson. Rthetorical auestion: Where would Penson be if it didn't have TOS's future clearing?

Posted by JSHINV on 08-15-11 02:16 AM:

Quote from JSHINV:

Think maybe underlying cause may be with Penson. Rthetorical auestion: Where would Penson be if it didn't have TOS's future clearing?

The raised the margin on the ES from 5000 to 6500 over the weekend. CME is still at 5000. IB last look is 5000. I am leaving TOS going to IB or someone else. You are right, they don't care about futures traders. Because with that one brilliant move alone they are going to lose a lot of accounts. Either they don't care or they are stupid - because business will fly out the door.

Posted by rickf on 08-15-11 02:19 AM:

Quote from JSHINV:

The raised the margin on the ES from 5000 to 6500 over the weekend. CME is still at 5000. IB last look is 5000. I am leaving TOS going to IB or someone else. You are right, they don't care about futures traders. Because with that one brilliant move alone they are going to lose a lot of accounts. Either they don't care or they are stupid - because business will fly out the door.

TOS wasn't ever really know for futures trading, was it? I've had futures enabled on the account for years but have never traded them there, choosing instead to go with a more focussed futures broker.

Posted by athlonmank8 on 08-15-11 02:28 AM:

Anyone else having problems logging into TOS? Do i need to switch to my TDA account to use them now or something?

Posted by trefoil on 08-15-11 02:28 AM:

I had an odd one happen to me.
I once had a TD Ameritrade account, and when I went to open up the TOS platform this evening, I had a zero balance.
After I picked myself up off the ground, I very quickly figured out what happened: I used the same username & password at TOS as I had at TD when I moved from the one to the other all those many years ago. So what they were displaying on TOS was my old TD account.
Called 'em up, we went through everything, and figured out they'd put a "tos" at the end of my username for my TOS account. Put that one in and suddenly I was above zero.

Whew!

Posted by JSHINV on 08-15-11 02:29 AM:

Quote from rickf:

TOS wasn't ever really know for futures trading, was it? I've had futures enabled on the account for years but have never traded them there, choosing instead to go with a more focussed futures broker.

No it really wasn't. You are right.

Posted by opt789 on 08-15-11 02:31 AM:

Quote from JSHINV:

The raised the margin on the ES from 5000 to 6500 over the weekend. CME is still at 5000. IB last look is 5000. I am leaving TOS going to IB or someone else. You are right, they don't care about futures traders. Because with that one brilliant move alone they are going to lose a lot of accounts. Either they don't care or they are stupid - because business will fly out the door.

It wasn’t over the weekend it was actually last week. So far I see ES, CL, 6S, SI, GC, RB, 6B and a bunch others that are all higher than the CME. You probably won’t find any broker charging as high a margin as TDA/thinkorswim.

Posted by rickf on 08-15-11 02:37 AM:

New client and site seems ok to me -- my positions are all there as they should be.

I have no idea where they're posting the new futures margin rates, though.

Posted by JSHINV on 08-15-11 02:38 AM:

Quote from opt789:

It wasn’t over the weekend it was actually last week. So far I see ES, CL, 6S, SI, GC, RB, 6B and a bunch others that are all higher than the CME. You probably won’t find any broker charging as high a margin as TDA/thinkorswim.

I saw the ES as 5000 last Friday. Maybe I didn't notice since I was flat at the end of the day. You were right in your first comment. TDA doesn't want futures traders or naive in thinking they can keep them.

They kept Penson as the clearing firm and they raised the marigin of the ES by 1500 and based on what you said accross the board. Did they even announce it? You are absolutely right, they don't want future traders.

They may have announced it and I just missed it.

Posted by joneog on 08-15-11 02:46 AM:

Quote from JSHINV:

The raised the margin on the ES from 5000 to 6500 over the weekend. CME is still at 5000. IB last look is 5000. I am leaving TOS going to IB or someone else. You are right, they don't care about futures traders. Because with that one brilliant move alone they are going to lose a lot of accounts. Either they don't care or they are stupid - because business will fly out the door.

Can you blame them when we've had 80+ handle ranges in ES lately? I mean, do you really need 12-to-1 leverage in this kind of market? Seems like a recipe for disaster for a lot of retail accounts, especially with this collective race between firms for the lowest intra-day margins. Personally I think the GC margins should be twice what CME has them at right now.

I use TOS/AMTD for my intermediate/long term accounts and some of the analytics, never considered using it for futures or options-on-futures. For the latter I use a firm that specializes in that area; better commissions, better execution, more knowledgable / responsive staff etc.

Posted by opt789 on 08-15-11 02:49 AM:

Rickf, you have to log into TDA website then click on Trade->Futures and the table is at the bottom.

Jshinv, they never announce futures margin increases, they just do them.

Joneog, 80 handles is $4000 which is more than covered by the CME’s $5000, there was no need to raise it to $6500 and keep it there. It is not about using the max leverage it is about them arbitrarily raising margins and not telling anyone.

Posted by JSHINV on 08-15-11 03:02 AM:

Quote from joneog:

Can you blame them when we've had 80+ handle ranges in ES lately? I mean, do you really need 12-to-1 leverage in this kind of market? Seems like a recipe for disaster for a lot of retail accounts, especially with this collective race between firms for the lowest intra-day margins. Personally I think the GC margins should be twice what CME has them at right now.

I use TOS/AMTD for my intermediate/long term accounts and some of the analytics, never considered using it for futures or options-on-futures. For the latter I use a firm that specializes in that area; better commissions, better execution, more knowledgable / responsive staff etc.

Did they make an announcement they raised them prior to last weekend's conversion? Even if they raised the ES margin to 10,000 it wouldn't effect my ability to trade what I want to trade - meaning I trade a small position size very few contracts. It's the way it was done, I have a problem with. Do I blame them? Blame of course not. But I don't think it was done just because of market volatility. Hell no, they aren't interested in marketing futures, they want less futures trades. Plus Penson doesn't have a lot of cushion - that had to be in the equation.

Posted by JSHINV on 08-15-11 03:11 AM:

Quote from opt789:

Rickf, you have to log into TDA website then click on Trade->Futures and the table is at the bottom.

Jshinv, they never announce futures margin increases, they just do them.

Joneog, 80 handles is $4000 which is more than covered by the CME’s $5000, there was no need to raise it to $6500 and keep it there. It is not about using the max leverage it is about them arbitrarily raising margins and not telling anyone.

"Never..." When silver futures margin was increased in the last couple of months TOS announced it on the hour as I recall.

Posted by opt789 on 08-15-11 03:13 AM:

Quote from JSHINV:

"Never..." When silver futures margin was increased in the last couple of months TOS announced it on the hour as I recall.

You are right, I remember that one. But I am aware of the other 20+ changes that have happened since then and none were announced.

Posted by JSHINV on 08-15-11 03:16 AM:

Quote from opt789:

You are right, I remember that one. But I am aware of the other 20+ changes that have happened since then and none were announced.

I usually just stick with the ES. Was it 6500 on Friday and I didn't even notice it LOL, made about 5 round trips. Shows you how much I was paying attention.

Posted by joneog on 08-15-11 03:19 AM:

Quote from opt789:

Joneog, 80 handles is $4000 which is more than covered by the CME’s $5000, there was no need to raise it to $6500 and keep it there. It is not about using the max leverage it is about them arbitrarily raising margins and not telling anyone.

An 80 handle range could easily have been 100 or 120 or 150, that's kind of the point. If Soc Gen or Paribas collapsed last week do you think a $5k margin would have been sufficient?

It wasn't arbitrary, it was in response to market conditions, to protect everyone involved. As to whether it was a suprise move, that's another story.

Quote from JSHINV:

Hell no, they aren't interested in marketing futures, they want less futures trades.

I doubt that, business is business. The idea of offering the full spectrum of products on one platform seems like it would make sense to them. I just think they want to be more conservative.

FWIW, my account rep called me a couple months ago for some reason, and after he heard I used another firm for futures he actively tried to get my business. You'd think if they didnt want futures business they would send out a memo or something.

Posted by opt789 on 08-15-11 03:24 AM:

Quote from joneog:

It wasn't arbitrary

Well as a former risk manager who has spent a significant amount of time analyzing the mathematics behind futures margins, I will simply agree to disagree with you. Simple question, if the CME is so stupid and so wrong as you say they are, then why is TOS the one and only firm raising the ES to 6500 and CL to 12000?

Posted by JSHINV on 08-15-11 03:31 AM:

Quote from joneog:

An 80 handle range could easily have been 100 or 120 or 150, that's kind of the point. If Soc Gen or Paribas collapsed last week do you think a $5k margin would have been sufficient?

It wasn't arbitrary, it was in response to market conditions, to protect everyone involved. As to whether it was a suprise move, that's another story.

I doubt that, business is business. The idea of offering the full spectrum of products on one platform seems like it would make sense to them. I just think they want to be more conservative.

FWIW, my account rep called me a couple months ago for some reason, and after he heard I used another firm for futures he actively tried to get my business. You'd think if they didnt want futures business they would send out a memo or something.

You have some good points. I have no problem what you are saying. We may disagree on a few points; but what we disagree on we are splitting hairs. So no need to split some more hairs. I am going to change brokers. Not an earth shattering event.

Posted by joneog on 08-15-11 04:07 AM:

Quote from opt789:

Well as a former risk manager who has spent a significant amount of time analyzing the mathematics behind futures margins, I will simply agree to disagree with you. Simple question, if the CME is so stupid and so wrong as you say they are, then why is TOS the one and only firm raising the ES to 6500 and CL to 12000?

If all the other firms jumped off the bridge should TOS/AMTD? Like I said, maybe they are just trying to be conservative.

Lower margins = more business. So firms have little incentive to raise them, including the CME. Look no further than the $400 (maybe $300 now?) intra-day margins being offered on ES by some FCMs.

look at GC; sure all the standard risk/volatility metrics have jumped but $7500 for a $175k contract? Seriously? It could easily be up or down 200 by the close tomorrow. Hell, it could gap up 100 if something crazy came out of europe. (is there even a limit in gold anymore? either way it doesnt matter)

Maybe my distaste for quantitative risk management is the problem. I just don't think you can succesfully model future risk, in any meaningful way. Its a subjective thing to me.

Posted by joneog on 08-15-11 04:11 AM:

Quote from JSHINV:

You have some good points. I have no problem what you are saying. We may disagree on a few points; but what we disagree on we are splitting hairs. So no need to split some more hairs. I am going to change brokers. Not an earth shattering event.

The funny thing is I was going to reccomend you switch anyway. If all you're trading is futures find a quality firm dedicated to that.

Posted by opt789 on 08-15-11 04:29 AM:

Quote from joneog:

The funny thing is I was going to reccomend you switch anyway. If all you're trading is futures find a quality firm dedicated to that.

Is there a quality firm dedicated to futures and futures options that has all the option analytics of a TOS like platform?

As far as futures margin goes, you are right that anything can happen but you have to do it quantitatively for it to be done realistically. The other thing to keep in mind is you are really only talking about gaps, and basically unheard of ones at that. Take ES for example. The CME margin is 100 points but the maintenance is 80 points. That means the system/risk manager is liquidating your positions when you still have $4000 per contract left in your account. What is the chance that the market moves 80 points before the risk manager has time to hit the sell button for you?

Posted by JSHINV on 08-15-11 04:33 AM:

Quote from joneog:

The funny thing is I was going to reccomend you switch anyway. If all you're trading is futures find a quality firm dedicated to that.

I'll go with IB. I've had an account with them before. Still want a firm with a wide range of products available to me. Need to find a good charting package though. Don't want to depend on IB for charts.

Posted by joneog on 08-15-11 04:40 AM:

Quote from opt789:

Is there a quality firm dedicated to futures and futures options that has all the option analytics of a TOS like platform?

As far as futures margin goes, you are right that anything can happen but you have to do it quantitatively for it to be done realistically. The other thing to keep in mind is you are really only talking about gaps, and basically unheard of ones at that. Take ES for example. The CME margin is 100 points but the maintenance is 80 points. That means the system/risk manager is liquidating your positions when you still have $4000 per contract left in your account. What is the chance that the market moves 80 points before the risk manager has time to hit the sell button for you?

Since TOS is free through AMTD you can setup two accounts. Transfer your 401k to AMTD and setup another futures account.

As to the latter point, pretty much everyone I know trades through an FCM that offers intra-day margins, so risk managers have a lot less than 80-points of margin, more like 8-10 now. I guess that's not really the CMEs fault though.

Posted by RobertG on 08-15-11 04:52 AM:

TD (Toronto Dominion) is a canadian based bank, and those banks have a very low risk tolerance towards futures traders. So, I am not sure what support futures traders will get as a result of this.

Also, this reminds me of when OptionsXpress bought XpressTrade which at the time was a very good platform. They "killed" it and no memory is left from it while all integrated into their own platform.

It seems it's the trend when big guys but the small companies...they leave nothing of them. too bad..I heard that TOS was once a great platform.

RG

Posted by Catoosa on 08-15-11 06:29 AM:

I think TDAT does value and want the business of futures traders. It is taking TDAT longer to become a futures clearing merchant than TDAT had originally thought. I expect TDAT to eventually become a FCM and no longer need the services of Penson GHCO for futures clearing. I would rather have TDAT clearing my futures trading than Penson. Penson manages their internal company business about as bad as our elected officials manage the US government. For me, the viability of Penson is what is troubling.

Posted by Illum on 08-15-11 02:09 PM:

Quote from Catoosa:

I think TDAT does value and want the business of futures traders. It is taking TDAT longer to become a futures clearing merchant than TDAT had originally thought. I expect TDAT to eventually become a FCM and no longer need the services of Penson GHCO for futures clearing. I would rather have TDAT clearing my futures trading than Penson. Penson manages their internal company business about as bad as our elected officials manage the US government. For me, the viability of Penson is what is troubling.

Blowing money on horse tracks is never very comforting...

Posted by joneog on 08-15-11 03:46 PM:

Quote from Illum:

Blowing money on horse tracks is never very comforting...

Diversification

Posted by loufah on 08-15-11 08:23 PM:

Quote from opt789:

they say the quote server integration is supposed to happen by the end of the month.

I hope they're not going to switch to TDA's quote feed. Too often, it provides quotes delayed by seconds or minutes, and sometimes the quotes just stop coming.

Posted by trader345 on 08-15-11 08:51 PM:

MB trading used to have $1 per 100 shares stock trading but I think they replaced that with 4.95 min. Is there any place without a min. charge for stock trades?

Posted by Catoosa on 08-16-11 04:41 AM:

Quote from trader345:

MB trading used to have $1 per 100 shares stock trading but I think they replaced that with 4.95 min. Is there any place without a min. charge for stock trades?

Interactive Brokers charges half a cent per share with a dollar minimum charge. For me that is cheaper than using MB Trading to fill the same orders.

Posted by ajna on 08-16-11 06:27 PM:

I'm a long time TOS user. They officially suck now. Options, futures, and forex are all considered different accounts now. In order to trade futures, you need to formally segregate money into a subaccount. I realize this probably happened behind the scenes anyway, but now you formally have to do it. Many accounts have completely screwed up buying power currently this entire day preventing any trading, it's all no bueno currently. Too bad, TOS had something special going on at one point. Now they officially suck.

Posted by rickf on 08-16-11 06:52 PM:

Quote from ajna:

I'm a long time TOS user. They officially suck now. Options, futures, and forex are all considered different accounts now. In order to trade futures, you need to formally segregate money into a subaccount. I realize this probably happened behind the scenes anyway, but now you formally have to do it. Many accounts have completely screwed up buying power currently this entire day preventing any trading, it's all no bueno currently. Too bad, TOS had something special going on at one point. Now they officially suck.

The segregated-account thing is only temporary, we're being told. TD is not a FCM yet and as such futures are still cleared thru Penson. They said on last evening's chat that they are in the process of becoming a registered FCM and as such that account segregation will go away.

My account also had screwed up buying power and ~50K cash 'missing' from the TOS desktop client even though it still showed up in the website cash management page. But as of a few minutes ago, it's reporting proper funding levels as it should along with my existing positions. They knew about this problem early on this morning and it affected a *ton* of people based on what I'm hearing.

But yeah - logging in at 0730 and seeing warnings about maintenance margin -- coupled with a huge chunk of cash missing -- is so not the right way to start the day.

I expected a few hiccups in such a merger when it goes 'live' technically -- that said, my fingers are crossed that things smooth out for them this week.

Posted by jayre on 08-16-11 07:55 PM:

Quote from Catoosa:

Interactive Brokers charges half a cent per share with a dollar minimum charge. For me that is cheaper than using MB Trading to fill the same orders.

[QUOTE]Quote from Catoosa:
Do you use margin with IB? Do you have open positions when you leave the computer? If yes, your $4 savings in commisions might be picking up nickels in front of a bulldozer.

Posted by ofinance on 08-16-11 07:59 PM:

Quote from rickf:

they are in the process of becoming a registered FCM

They bought TOS in 2009 and they are still in the process of registering as an FCM? i don't think it takes 2 year to register, especially not for a big broker like TD.

Posted by Illum on 08-16-11 08:28 PM:

Quote from ofinance:

They bought TOS in 2009 and they are still in the process of registering as an FCM? i don't think it takes 2 year to register, especially not for a big broker like TD.

Not easy to turn a decent broker into an e-trade wannabe. Takes time and effort.

Posted by Catoosa on 08-17-11 07:10 AM:

Quote from ofinance:

They bought TOS in 2009 and they are still in the process of registering as an FCM? i don't think it takes 2 year to register, especially not for a big broker like TD.

TDAT was telling me 2 years ago that they were working on becoming a FCM. Fast forward to now, it seems if TDAT is expecting to be a FCM in the near future they would have waited on the integration of TOS until after becoming a FCM.

Posted by Catoosa on 08-17-11 07:31 AM:

Quote from jayre:

[QUOTE]Quote from Catoosa:
Do you use margin with IB? Do you have open positions when you leave the computer? If yes, your $4 savings in commisions might be picking up nickels in front of a bulldozer.

The most significant risk are the actions of our US Federal Government Representatives. Day and night they are destroying our wealth.

Posted by ScalperJoe on 08-18-11 01:05 AM:

Quote from trader345:

MB trading used to have $1 per 100 shares stock trading but I think they replaced that with 4.95 min. Is there any place without a min. charge for stock trades?

I recall another thread regarding per share commission, and Lightspeed and Speedtrader were mentioned as alternatives to flat rate commissions, however I believe Lightspeed has a $1 minimum, but Speedtrader does not.

Hope that helps.

Posted by ScalperJoe on 08-18-11 01:15 AM:

Quote from Catoosa:

I think TDAT does value and want the business of futures traders. It is taking TDAT longer to become a futures clearing merchant than TDAT had originally thought. I expect TDAT to eventually become a FCM and no longer need the services of Penson GHCO for futures clearing.

TOS is the only broker I've found that gives you futures data without charge, even if one doesn't trade futures but still wants the data, so hopefully you're right and TDAT will keep offering the data even to its equity and options customers.

Posted by opt789 on 08-18-11 01:41 AM:

I talked to Scott about them wanting to keep futures traders or not, and they are unequivocally interested in keeping them and getting new ones. Well that is a nice idea, but if they continue to put out quotes that are behind and overreact with their very high margins then it will be hard to get anyone. The problem is that IB and TOS don’t really have any competition, if they did they would both be better. What other firms give you one platform to trade everything?

Posted by rickf on 08-18-11 01:44 AM:

I think if you don't need tick-by-tick entries on futs (ie swing trading) you could be fine at TDOS / TDA / whatever. However, if you're scalping for ticks or in-and-out gunning for 2 /ES points with tight stops, it's prolly not the platform you want.

Posted by pcp198 on 08-18-11 02:45 AM:

Quote from loufah:

I hope they're not going to switch to TDA's quote feed. Too often, it provides quotes delayed by seconds or minutes, and sometimes the quotes just stop coming.

confirmed with a TD rep today, the servers that host TOS's data feed will remain the same.

Quote from rickf:

I think if you don't need tick-by-tick entries on futs (ie swing trading) you could be fine at TDOS / TDA / whatever. However, if you're scalping for ticks or in-and-out gunning for 2 /ES points with tight stops, it's prolly not the platform you want.

I use the platform to scalp for ticks and it hasn't interfered with my trading. Although I'm aware the data feed lags .5 to 1.5 seconds.

Posted by opt789 on 08-18-11 02:51 AM:

Quote from pcp198:

confirmed with a TD rep today, the servers that host TOS's data feed will remain the same.

I use the platform to scalp for ticks and it hasn't interfered with my trading. Although I'm aware the data feed lags .5 to 1.5 seconds.

Download a copy of Ninja and put in Zenfire or CQG – you can get a trial for free from Amp or Dorman – then put up the time and sales window for the /ES from TOS next to Ninja. Just watch what happens during a few big, fast, high volume moves. I think you may reconsider scalping when you see that your quote can be quite far off sometimes.

I know TOS will never have true tick data, but how far they fall behind during busy times is not acceptable and I am hoping they address it someday.

Posted by Illum on 08-18-11 03:14 AM:

Lag, hell they freeze. What a beautiful option platform tho.

Posted by JSHINV on 08-18-11 05:18 AM:

Quote from opt789:

I talked to Scott about them wanting to keep futures traders or not, and they are unequivocally interested in keeping them and getting new ones. Well that is a nice idea, but if they continue to put out quotes that are behind and overreact with their very high margins then it will be hard to get anyone. The problem is that IB and TOS don’t really have any competition, if they did they would both be better. What other firms give you one platform to trade everything?

It depends where TDA wants to take this. If they want to compete with (1) Schwab or ETrade, or they want to compete with (2) IB and a few others. If (1), then they don't need to worry that much about data speed and futures margin. If (2), then it was crazy to raise margin on futures, especially when commissions are not all that cheap along with data feed delays. But, if I had to guess which direction they are going, I choose door (1).

Posted by Catoosa on 08-18-11 06:18 AM:

Quote from JSHINV:

It depends where TDA wants to take this. If they want to compete with (1) Schwab or ETrade, or they want to compete with (2) IB and a few others. If (1), then they don't need to worry that much about data speed and futures margin. If (2), then it was crazy to raise margin on futures, especially when commissions are not all that cheap along with data feed delays. But, if I had to guess which direction they are going, I choose door (1).

TDAT's business model has been and now is what you describe as (1). I do not see that changing. The $9.99 ticket charge per equity order fits their model and is here to stay in my opinion. I see TOS being negatively impacted by this acquisition in the longer time frame. TDAT will try to not "rock the boat" with respect to TOS for a couple of years to give TDAT management a chance to get a good feel for what they want to do with the TOS part of the business within the TDAT overall strategy. I hope fore but do not expect a better outcome.

Posted by ddouglas on 08-19-11 06:11 AM:

Did no one else get the letter a couple weeks ago that said: "By the middle of August, there will be no need to transfer funds between your futures account and stock/options account, because all will be handled and displayed out of one account" (?) (paraphrasing - can get it out & read verbatim if need . . ).

I took that to mean that they would be up & running as an FCM by this vague "middle of August" target date.

I assumed that they sent it out to try to keep their futures customers from bailing, b/c Penson looks so terrible.

There's a TDA office down the street from me - I meant to stop in & ask if anyone knows when TDA clearing aims to be operational as an FCM - but I don't have high expectations that anyone will really know.

Posted by ddouglas on 08-22-11 11:32 PM:

BTW, regarding TDAT's status as an FCM, they called today to say that everything should be up & running by this Friday (8/26), and that the segregated-accounts thing is over (& the relationship with Penson, too). So we'll see what happens . .

I'm sure they called everybody else, too - but I put up this note because I don't know if this is being rolled out in stages, or if all the futures clients are being converted at the same time.

Posted by konviction on 08-23-11 12:53 AM:

WHY did they merge in the first place?.. If I have to pay 9.99 per trade I'm closing my account...which I REALLY don't want to do, but 9.99 per ticket is crazy. Sorry.

Posted by opt789 on 08-23-11 01:23 AM:

Quote from ddouglas:

BTW, regarding TDAT's status as an FCM, they called today to say that everything should be up & running by this Friday (8/26), and that the segregated-accounts thing is over (& the relationship with Penson, too). So we'll see what happens . .

I'm sure they called everybody else, too - but I put up this note because I don't know if this is being rolled out in stages, or if all the futures clients are being converted at the same time.

I believe this is not correct.
The only thing they are working on is to get the automatic sweep from your margin account back and forth to your Penson futures account set up again.

Penson will be clearing their futures trades for awhile.

Posted by ddouglas on 08-23-11 05:30 AM:

Quote from opt789:

. . . Penson will be clearing their futures trades for awhile.

Hmm . .

I specifically asked if Penson was going away, and the guy on the other end of the line said "yes, that's exactly what is happening."

I didn't pry any further (though maybe I should have). Tomorrow I will call them back and try to clarify.

However, just now I checked their FCM registration on the NFA website, and they are showing as registered and active as both an FCM and a Forex Firm - with the Forex Firm status only being activated at the end of July (approx 30 days ago).

The NFA website status lists them as having currently open "on-exchange futures and/or options customer accounts."

Here's the link:

http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet...AOLl6ZY%3d&rn=Y

And the NFA ID: 0382533

Will post if I find out anything new when I talk to them tommorrow . .

Posted by opt789 on 08-23-11 01:48 PM:

Quote from ddouglas:

Hmm . .

I specifically asked if Penson was going away, and the guy on the other end of the line said "yes, that's exactly what is happening."

I have heard that eventually Penson will not be used and they will be their own FCM, but it sounded like it was a little ways off. The email I received yesterday to my inquiry regarding this stated “Thanks for the email. We are still using Penson for futures trading.”

Posted by Rodney King on 08-23-11 02:10 PM:

Quote from RobertG:

TD (Toronto Dominion) is a canadian based bank, and those banks have a very low risk tolerance towards futures traders

Huh? I used to clear through a Canadian bank that was among the least risk averse in the business.

Posted by deltahedge on 08-24-11 01:01 PM:

Quote from konviction:

WHY did they merge in the first place?.. If I have to pay 9.99 per trade I'm closing my account...which I REALLY don't want to do, but 9.99 per ticket is crazy. Sorry.

Your old commission schedule from the TOS days is still intact. New customers, however, will have to negotiate with the TD AM guys and pray that TD AM will offer lower commissions either based on higher volume or larger account size.

Posted by joneog on 08-24-11 01:28 PM:

Quote from deltahedge:

New customers, however, will have to negotiate with the TD AM guys and pray that TD AM will offer lower commissions either based on higher volume or larger account size.

I'm @ 7.99 in a low volume but decent sized 401k. If I traded more actively in there, or pestered them more, I think they'd knock it down further, just not as low as my higher-volume futures/options account which is 1.40-2.40 per side, per lot - so I don't even bother.

Best bet is to simply ask them whats the best they can do, because you're considering leaving...

Posted by syswizard on 08-24-11 07:13 PM:

re: so that great TOS trading platform built in Java is no longer ?

Does the TD platform have those great option analytics ?

__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"

Posted by Super X on 08-25-11 02:41 AM:

tda lag

Lag in tda/tos platform here to stay. I opened another account to trade futes, with infinity brokers. the customer service is great, and commisions much better than tos. I now use the tos platform to moniter, and day trade futes with infinity. it now brings a smile to my face when tos freezes. just get the back up, and your issues are resolved !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

happy trading

Posted by ddouglas on 08-25-11 04:12 AM:

Quote from opt789:

The only thing they are working on is to get the automatic sweep from your margin account back and forth to your Penson futures account set up again.

I spent some time on the phone with them today, and this is indeed the case.

It took multiple attempts - and phone calls to their people in other cities - for them to figure out where my deposits would be held if I engaged in futures transactions.

Further, I asked if Futures Margins were going to stabilize - as they have been changing daily (both on the TDA website and in the ThinkorSwim platform). The answer was "no" they will keep being reevaluated "until all this market volatility dies down."
(some of them like ZF are already 2.5x the Exchange initial margin).

Silly.

Posted by RobertG on 08-25-11 06:26 AM:

Quote from Rodney King:

Huh? I used to clear through a Canadian bank that was among the least risk averse in the business.

One of my friends was a big trader in Montreal before the net days, and he said that slowly all the banks have shut down their futures operations in Toronto. He said they used to dislike the futures brokers as they just maintained them for their big equity guys.

There is IB in Canada and others, but amongst the banks it's not something they promote. That is why I thought ToS with TD will put more efforts towards the equity side.

Posted by syswizard on 08-25-11 04:44 PM:

Quote from ddouglas:

re:"both on the TDA website and in the ThinkorSwim platform"

So the Java-based TOS trading platform will stay alive and supported then ?

__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"

Posted by ddouglas on 08-25-11 06:49 PM:

Quote from syswizard:

So the Java-based TOS trading platform will stay alive and supported then ?

Yes, it definitely will - in fact, they are phasing out all of their other offerings to focus on that exclusively.

As of this friday (tomorrow), all TDA account holders' only option is the ToS platform unless they specifically chose to opt-out and stay with an older platform (Command Center 2.0, Strategy Desk, etc.).

Everything else has disappeared from the website.

Posted by syswizard on 08-25-11 11:46 PM:

Quote from ddouglas:

Yes, it definitely will - in fact, they are phasing out all of their other offerings to focus on that exclusively.

As of this friday (tomorrow), all TDA account holders' only option is the ToS platform unless they specifically chose to opt-out and stay with an older platform (Command Center 2.0, Strategy Desk, etc.).

Everything else has disappeared from the website.

Huh ? I just logged on.....and under the Trading Tools tab there is:

Overview, TDAmeritrade.com, Trade Architect, Mobile

Where's the TOS platform download ?

__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"

Posted by ddouglas on 08-26-11 12:06 AM:

Hmm . . Strange, indeed.

Mine shows: "Overview, Tdameritrade.com, TradeArchitect, Thinkorswim from TDAmeritrade, Mobile."

ThinkorSwim & thinkorswim Mobile are the only platforms through which you can trade futures. TDA website & TradeArchitect are stocks/options only.

Maybe yours isn't showing because today is the day that they're converting a bunch of accounts . . I don't know . .

If I log out & go to the TDA website, ThinkorSwim platform is all over the place. If I log in, it's easily downloadable under "trading tools." Don't know why it wouldn't show up on your screen . . ?

Posted by syswizard on 08-26-11 01:37 AM:

Wierd - I only see a button for the WEB BASED TOS platform.

__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"

Posted by ddouglas on 08-26-11 02:35 AM:

Do you have options/futures enabled on your account? I wonder if they're limiting the available tools per account type. Maybe they see ToS as unnecessary for stock traders? (pure conjecture on my part).

Posted by syswizard on 08-26-11 05:58 PM:

Quote from ddouglas:

Do you have options/futures enabled on your account? I wonder if they're limiting the available tools per account type. Maybe they see ToS as unnecessary for stock traders? (pure conjecture on my part).

Sure do. I was using the desktop platform as of 6 months ago.....
is it still downloadable on the TOS website I wonder ?

__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"

Posted by Rodney King on 08-30-11 01:23 AM:

Barrons coverage of the TD/ToS integration - http://online.barrons.com/article/S...0860463438.html

Posted by syswizard on 08-30-11 03:44 PM:

Quote from Rodney King:

Barrons coverage of the TD/ToS integration - http://online.barrons.com/article/S...0860463438.html

Typical of most industries in consolidation:
Service gets worse....natch.

__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"

Posted by ajna on 09-05-11 04:46 AM:

So what are most other TOS users planning on doing?
1. Move to another broker like IB and keep a small account at TOS for risk analysis?
2. If not IB, who else is a realistic option?
3. If moving, what risk analysis software do you plan to use that is equivalent to TOS?

Posted by daniel5198 on 09-05-11 12:49 PM:

I am considering OptionsExpress. Still haven't made up my mind though. In the meantime, still trading with TOS, but not very happy anymore.

__________________
daniel

Posted by syswizard on 09-05-11 01:37 PM:

Quote from ajna:

So what are most other TOS users planning on doing?
1. Move to another broker like IB and keep a small account at TOS for risk analysis?

That's exactly what I did. I needed lower commissions, a platform with an API, and a platform with no data delays.
Kept TOS strictly for the options analytics.

__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"

Posted by cloudy on 09-05-11 06:21 PM:

Good idea. I'm thinking about that too. Was looking into options on futures and only OX has that. TOS doesn't even have more than a handful of those kind of options while OX has a full asset class of futures options. And now that TOS is really TD Ameritrade, not sure how the futures will be supported in the future. So far heard that Penson financial services will still support TOS futures/forex trading for now.

Posted by opt789 on 09-05-11 06:57 PM:

You are kidding right?
Optionsxpress charges $12.99 to do a futures options contract.
The futures options all have different fees, but a normal price is $2 to $3 at most.

Posted by FrankSlaughtery on 09-06-11 11:49 AM:

just use ib for execution and tos for analytics and be done w/ it

Posted by JamesBond007 on 09-06-11 06:15 PM:

Quote from FrankSlaughtery:

just use ib for execution and tos for analytics and be done w/ it

+10

right on the money, Frank. it took me a little while to get used to TOS but now i find it much superior to QT in terms of analytics available. the only drawback i find is relative lack of background color options compared to QT but i can live w/ that.

Posted by FrankSlaughtery on 09-07-11 11:11 AM:

Quote from JamesBond007:

+10

right on the money, Frank. it took me a little while to get used to TOS but now i find it much superior to QT in terms of analytics available. the only drawback i find is relative lack of background color options compared to QT but i can live w/ that.

if the background color is that big of a deal, here's the solution: same as above w/ the addition of using ninja for charting using ib's feed.

Posted by syswizard on 09-08-11 04:24 PM:

Only earlier TOS account holders can run the Desktop platform....an interesting move on Ameritrade's part.
I just downloaded the latest version and there was a message to indicate the above.

__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"

Posted by cstfx on 09-08-11 05:01 PM:

Quote from syswizard:

Only earlier TOS account holders can run the Desktop platform....an interesting move on Ameritrade's part.
I just downloaded the latest version and there was a message to indicate the above.

I am a new TD client (less than 3 weeks) and I have no problem using the TOS desktop.

Posted by syswizard on 09-08-11 06:36 PM:

Quote from cstfx:

I am a new TD client (less than 3 weeks) and I have no problem using the TOS desktop.

You just made the "cut-off".

__________________
"Success in the markets runs counter to everything we have been taught...and if you want a friend on Wall Street, get a dog"

Posted by Catoosa on 09-08-11 09:42 PM:

Quote from syswizard:

Only earlier TOS account holders can run the Desktop platform....an interesting move on Ameritrade's part.
I just downloaded the latest version and there was a message to indicate the above.

Looks to me like the TOS program is now a TDAT program and the download is available to all TDAT clients. Could it be an old message that will get changed or deleted.

Posted by uptickk on 09-22-11 02:47 PM:

Seriously thinking about leaving TOS. I have put in a number of orders this morning that have not executed because there is a "back log" right now. How in the world am I supposed to be able to trade when there are ~20 minutes back logs.

Posted by rickf on 09-22-11 02:50 PM:

Quote from uptickk:

Seriously thinking about leaving TOS. I have put in a number of orders this morning that have not executed because there is a "back log" right now. How in the world am I supposed to be able to trade when there are ~20 minutes back logs.

Not looking to leave (yet) but I have a cancelled order still showing up as in progress, so I don't know which way the order/trade is going or if it's been cancelled or not. Annoying.....though at least it's on a stock I wouldn't mind owning anyway.

Posted by uptickk on 09-22-11 02:54 PM:

Quote from rickf:

Not looking to leave (yet) but I have a cancelled order still showing up as in progress, so I don't know which way the order/trade is going or if it's been cancelled or not. Annoying.....though at least it's on a stock I wouldn't mind owning anyway.

I actually talked to them and they said they were back logged. Most recent general message is saying they are having troubles getting orders back from the exchanges. Very comforting to know you have no clue if you are in a position or not.

Posted by rickf on 09-22-11 04:55 PM:

Quote from uptickk:

I actually talked to them and they said they were back logged. Most recent general message is saying they are having troubles getting orders back from the exchanges. Very comforting to know you have no clue if you are in a position or not.

Same thing happened to me years ago at OXPS when they had similar problems one day early in my trading days. I was comfortably long 2 /ES contracts and exited a position ... but the page never showed the order filling, so I redid the order. And again. I was on hold for like 25 minutes trying to get it resolved with the order desk.

While on-hold, the page refreshed and I was short something like 6 or 10 /ES contracts with the position barely profitable.....it then turned a slight loss. *major panic* That said, the trade desk did right by me, though -- refunded my commissions and covered the (minor) loss on the erroneous position.

Still scared the %$%$ out of me, though ... not knowing.

This morning, when I saw problems getting orders updated via TOS Desktop, I cancelled the few I had pending and waited for things to settle down just to be sure/safe. (I was in no major rush on those orders anyway)

Posted by TylerD on 10-02-11 06:05 AM:

Another view

http://www.chicagosean.com/2011/10/...trade-customer/

I’ve been a staunch supporter of their platform since the very first day I became a customer and would recommend them to every person that inquired of me who to select as their options trading platform. Never a doubt – “choose thinkorswim” would be my pat answer. “…They are the Gold Standard.”

I love that they are local to me. Love their customer service. Love their educational offerings. Love their platform. Love their mobile and iPad apps. Love their features. Love their stability. Love their reasonable commission rates. And love their commitment to being cutting edge, customer-loving, and constantly improving.

But perhaps I should have said LOVED, in the past tense. Because the thinkorswim that I loved and had been instrumental in my early options trading education was recently sold to TD Ameritrade. And since the handoff took place, thinkorswim has become a shadow of its former self.

Posted by jmhunter on 10-02-11 08:00 PM:

Has anyone tried negotiating their options commissions lower now with TD? I have $1.50 flat with them (no 9.95 fee) do you think I could get better?

Posted by FrankSlaughtery on 10-03-11 11:17 AM:

Quote from jmhunter:

Has anyone tried negotiating their options commissions lower now with TD? I have $1.50 flat with them (no 9.95 fee) do you think I could get better?

esp in light of recent platform probs just email and ask. not sure how much room they have to negotiate since it's under the TD ameritrade umbrella now.

Posted by Cdntrader on 11-26-11 12:02 AM:

Quote from jmhunter:

Has anyone tried negotiating their options commissions lower now with TD? I have $1.50 flat with them (no 9.95 fee) do you think I could get better?

how many contracts do you do a qtr?

I have an old account there I use for backup. Fills seem alright.

Posted by deltahedge on 11-26-11 12:59 AM:

Quote from jmhunter:

Has anyone tried negotiating their options commissions lower now with TD? I have $1.50 flat with them (no 9.95 fee) do you think I could get better?

You should be trading at least 100-200 contracts (roundtrip) per month before you can negotiate with them given your current commission rate. However, for reference purposes, back when TOS was not under the TDAM umbrella, my dad negotiated down to $.80/contract and I received a negotiated rate of $1.00/contract.

You may also want to consider moving to Trademonster where you can get .50 contract with no ticket and use Thinkorswim for the analysis. Again, if you're executing volume you can also negotiate with IB (their rack rate is 75 cents/contract) and receive a commission rate which is competitive with Trademonster's pricing. However, their platform's learning curve remains exceedingly steep and given the data feed limitation a huge PIA. Nonetheless after watching a few introductory webinars I'm convinced IB truly is "The Professional's Gateway to the Markets" given the range of markets one can access and the extent of margin they offer to retail customers.

The only reason I bring up the margin issues is because now that TOS clears through TDAM they've REALLY screwed option traders (not stock traders, though) by upping the margin requirements on naked puts/calls as opposed to the days when they were clearing via Penson. This has all led me to seriously consider the moving the majority of my account to IB and keep TOS just for the charting and analytics.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-26-11 01:19 AM:

Quote from deltahedge:

You should be trading at least 100-200 contracts (roundtrip) per month before you can negotiate with them given your current commission rate. However, for reference purposes, back when TOS was not under the TDAM umbrella, my dad negotiated down to $.80/contract and I received a negotiated rate of $1.00/contract.

You may also want to consider moving to Trademonster where you can get .50 contract with no ticket and use Thinkorswim for the analysis. Again, if you're executing volume you can also negotiate with IB (their rack rate is 75 cents/contract) and receive a commission rate which is competitive with Trademonster's pricing. However, their platform's learning curve remains exceedingly steep and given the data feed limitation a huge PIA. Nonetheless after watching a few introductory webinars I'm convinced IB truly is "The Professional's Gateway to the Markets" given the range of markets one can access and the extent of margin they offer to retail customers.

The only reason I bring up the margin issues is because now that TOS clears through TDAM they've REALLY screwed option traders (not stock traders, though) by upping the margin requirements on naked puts/calls as opposed to the days when they were clearing via Penson. This has all led me to seriously consider the moving the majority of my account to IB and keep TOS just for the charting and analytics.

Are you sure about this? Their margin on short options is 20% as it has always been. What were you getting before and what are you getting now?

__________________
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Posted by Maverick74 on 11-26-11 01:27 AM:

Quote from Maverick74:

Are you sure about this? Their margin on short options is 20% as it has always been. What were you getting before and what are you getting now?

Let me further add to this. Every retail customer must post the "exchange minimums" on margin. Some firms "can" be more restrictive on this. But they cannot offer you better then exchange minimums. TOS right now currently has no additional restrictions on exchange minimums. So there has been NO change. Just wanted to clear this up.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by deltahedge on 11-26-11 01:37 AM:

Quote from Maverick74:

Let me further add to this. Every retail customer must post the "exchange minimums" on margin. Some firms "can" be more restrictive on this. But they cannot offer you better then exchange minimums. TOS right now currently has no additional restrictions on exchange minimums. So there has been NO change. Just wanted to clear this up.

They do have a special caveat on stocks sub $5 where they want you to put up more dough than the exchange minimums. The reason I know this is because I sold some puts on LLNW prior to the crossover. When the switchover happened, I was getting margined nearly 40% more because of TDAM's additional margin rules because stocks sub $5 are presumably more "volatile." Granted it's a rare case, but one that merits mentioning.

Posted by Maverick74 on 11-26-11 01:42 AM:

[QUOTE]Quote from deltahedge:

[B]They do have a special caveat on stocks sub $5 where they want you to put up more dough than the exchange minimums. The reason I know this is because I sold some puts on LLNW prior to the crossover. When the switchover happened, I was getting margined nearly 40% more because of TDAM's additional margin rules because stocks sub $5 are presumably more "volatile." Granted it's a ra

OK, but seriously, who the hell sells puts on sub 5 dollar stocks? Not to berate you. But your comment was TOS has "screwed" over option traders because of tighter margins when that is obviously not the case. Their margins on options (except sub $5 stocks I suppose) is exactly as it was before.

I just want to make this clear because your original post seemed to indicate that was not the case.

__________________
"Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine." Rick Blaine

Posted by ofinance on 11-26-11 08:44 AM:

Quote from deltahedge:

You may also want to consider moving to Trademonster where you can get .50 contract with no ticket

Trademonster have a minimum of $12.50 per option trade which makes them useless, they are cheating when they say they don't have a ticket fee, they do have one because you pay $12.50 even if you trade just one contract, with TOS its $1.50 per contract, atleast it used to be.

Posted by FrankSlaughtery on 11-26-11 11:56 AM:

Quote from ofinance:

Trademonster have a minimum of $12.50 per option trade which makes them useless, they are cheating when they say they don't have a ticket fee, they do have one because you pay $12.50 even if you trade just one contract, with TOS its $1.50 per contract, atleast it used to be.

i was just about to post a response re what seemed like a low price for trademonster. for now the lowest commission with NO ticket charge and NO minimum (well $1 in the case of lightspeed and ib) is lightspeed.

Posted by deltahedge on 11-26-11 01:50 PM:

Quote from ofinance:

Trademonster have a minimum of $12.50 per option trade which makes them useless, they are cheating when they say they don't have a ticket fee, they do have one because you pay $12.50 even if you trade just one contract, with TOS its $1.50 per contract, atleast it used to be.

I know if you come with the right kind of referral you can receive that rate of .50 cents per contract with NO ticket. While I do NOT use Trademonster, those who wish to know what referral to use are more than welcome to PM me.

Posted by FrankSlaughtery on 11-27-11 11:40 AM:

Quote from deltahedge:

I know if you come with the right kind of referral you can receive that rate of .50 cents per contract with NO ticket. While I do NOT use Trademonster, those who wish to know what referral to use are more than welcome to PM me.

no need. i can see how this goes...

ET'er: hi can i get a rate of $0.50 per car w/ no ticket charge?

TM: no

ET'er: what if i told you i'm friends w/ jack hershey from ET? hello? are you there?

Posted by roreilly on 01-01-12 04:29 PM:

Portfolio Margin vailable for new accounts

Can new accounts be qualified for portfolio margin at ThinkorSWIM? The website just states that accounts which have portfolio margin will keep it, but that is it. Thank for any info.

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