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-- Chevy Volt a lemon for GM. Current administration makes sour lemonade. (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=223230)

Chevy Volt a lemon for GM. Current administration makes sour lemonade.

From an email I received -

The Dirty Little Secret Behind The New Chevy Volt:



Patrick Michaels is a senior fellow in Environmental Studies at the Cato Institute and the editor of the forthcoming Climate Coup: Global Warming's Invasion of our Government and our Lives, as well as the author of several other books on global warming.



His Forbes column on the Chevy Volt is a case study in the nexus between big government corruption and big business subsidies. Michaels briefly recaps the consumer fraud in which GM has touted the Volt as an all-electric mass production vehicle on the supposed basis of which its sales receive a $7,500 taxpayer subsidy, and it is still overpriced and unmarketable.



Michaels notes that "sales are anemic: 326 in December, 321 in January, and 281 in February." Do you see a trend here? Michaels adds that GM has announced a production run of 100,000 cars in the first two years, and asks what appears to be a rhetorical question: "Who is going to buy all these cars?"



But wait! Keep hope alive! There is a positive answer to the question. Jeffrey Immelt's GE will buy a boatload of those uneconomic GM cars. Here the case study opens onto the inevitable political angle: Recently, President Obama selected General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt to chair his Economic Advisory Board. GE is also awash in windmills waiting to be subsidized so they can provide unreliable, expensive power. Consequently, and soon after his appointment, Immelt announced that GE will buy 50,000 Volts in the next two years, or half the total produced.



Assuming the corporation qualifies for the same tax credit, we (you and me) just shelled out $375,000,000 to a company to buy cars that no one else wants, so that GM will not tank and produce even more cars that no one wants. And this guy is the chair of Obama's Economic Advisory Board?



Michaels includes this hilarious detail in his case study: In a telling attempt to preserve battery power, the car's heater is exceedingly weak. Consumer Reports tests averaged a paltry 25 miles of electric-only running, in part because it was testing in cold Connecticut. (The GM engineer at the Auto Show said cold weather would have little effect.) It will be interesting to see what the Volt's range is on a hot, traffic-jammed summer day, when the air conditioner will really tax the batteries. When the gas engine came on, Consumer Reports got about 30 miles to the gallon of premium fuel; which, in terms of additional cost of high-test gas, drives the effective mileage closer to 27 mpg. A conventional Honda Accord, which seats 5 (instead of the Volt's 4), gets 34 mpg on the highway, and costs less than half of what CR paid, even with the tax break.



The story of the GM Volt deserves a place in the Harvard Business School curriculum....but of course, it won't. It's a classic tale of the GOVERNMENT deciding what the public needs, not the marketplace. What is one of the reasons for this? Why, to keep the UAW in business of course, because Obama owes them for his election. Starting to make sense yet?

GM needs to again, reduce it's entire lineup to a few good models. Too much pride. I don't look for this to happen anytime soon. Volt is too expensive.

Buy a Honda. You won't be sorry. If you need a pickup, get yourself an F-150 or a Tundra.

GM Can.

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Quote from Magic8:

GM Can.

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obama wants to keep spending money that the government doesn't have, so that the ponzi keeps going... soon a re-thug-lican will be voted in white house... and the blame will fall to the republicans instead of obama when the ponzi self-destructs Smart move obama!

GM has six months of Silverado truck inventory sitting in dealer lots. Everybody is buying the Ford F-150 with the V-6 TwinTurbo EcoBoost motor - gas mileage is actually very good as trucks go, and it will tow 10K pounds when you need it. The Silverado has no V-6 available.

This is what happens when the government gets into the business of choosing winners and losers in the marketplace.

__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

A game of hot potato. One company that has lived off of subsidy will buy the garbage product of another company saved from the realities of the marketplace.

And people wonder why it's called a kleptocracy.

__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

Hey, if Adolph Obama and the Demo'craps' can order you to purchase health insurance, their next thing will be ordering you to buy these piece of shit Volts, or some other compact piece of crap car that we don't want. But that's supposed to be 'change' we can all believe in.

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Quote from bone:

GM has six months of Silverado truck inventory sitting in dealer lots. Everybody is buying the Ford F-150 with the V-6 TwinTurbo EcoBoost motor - gas mileage is actually very good as trucks go, and it will tow 10K pounds when you need it. The Silverado has no V-6 available.

This is what happens when the government gets into the business of choosing winners and losers in the marketplace.

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Quote from LEAPup:

SO TRUE! And I'm a former GM fan. I can tell you that after this last Yukon Denali, I will NEVER, EVER buy another GM vehicle! EVER!!!

Imo GM is a gonner. Just a matter of time. I don't feel sorry for them after all of the union crap they have allowed, and the FACT that they forgot they were in the business of making automobiles.

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Quote from BSAM:

What you gonna be looking at, Leapie?

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Ford Raptor

I have been smitten ever since the feature on 'Top Gear'. Thinking about ordering one from Hennessey.

__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

The stupidity and ignorance that is displayed on ET is exactly why I don't call myself a Republican anymore. Why don't you get your facts straight before you spread your lies? The Chevy dealership that I work at has about an 8 month waiting list on Volt's right now. We are having no probably selling them. Let me repeat, we are having no problem selling the new Chevy Volt at full MSRP. We could sell it over sticker but have decided not to. We had one used Volt become available. It sold in 3 days for over the original MSRP (when taking the tax credit into consideration) with 2000 miles on it. People love them. They are going 2000 miles on one tank of gas. Obviously they do have to pay for the electricity. Yes, the tax credit helps the cause, but even without it, there is plenty of natural demand. I know that dissapoints many of you.

The Volt is in limited production because they want to get it right and have a slow steady launch. Plus the battery's are in limited production. Hopefully the battery price will continue to drop at more than 5% a year. This will help bring down costs.

The Volt is the perfect car. Electric when you can, gas when you can't. It is not a concept car. It is not some impractical car. It is not some thing you see on tv that will never reach the common man. It goes 0-60 in 8 seconds. I have gotten it up to 90 on the DC beltway and I couldn't feel a thing. If you weren't so closed minded from the start, you might see a bigger picture. But I guess there will always be the naysayers. I'm sure they were the ones 100 years that were critisizing this weird contraption called the automobile that you had to put gas in. Why would you want to do that when you have a horse that ?

And BTW, the Silverado does come in a V6 in a regular cab and 2WD extended cab, albeit not a very gas efficient engine.

What a pathetic country the U.S. is! We spend billions subsidizing corporations and trillions to invade other countries, but fund our grade schools and medical care with bake sales and raffles.

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Quote from piezoe:

What a pathetic country the U.S. is! We spend billions subsidizing corporations and trillions to invade other countries, but fund our grade schools and medical care with bake sales and raffles.

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__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

The Chevy dealership that I work at has about an 8 month waiting list on Volt's right now. We are having no probably selling them. Let me repeat, we are having no problem selling the new Chevy Volt at full MSRP. We could sell it over sticker but have decided not to. We had one used Volt become available. It sold in 3 days for over the original MSRP (when taking the tax credit into consideration) with 2000 miles on it. People love them.

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Quote from GTS:
I have no dog in this fight but when I saw this thread yesterday it got me wondering so I checked a couple of local Chevy dealerships and one claimed to have two Volts in stock (they list specific VIN's) and another had one. I don't claim this is representative of anything but I thought it was odd that they weren't already sold before they arrived at the dealership (e.g. waiting list)

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Here's the one:
http://www.ourismanchevrolet.com/ne...11-5101006.html
1G1RD6E42BU101006

Here are the other two:
http://ourismanrockmont.com/Baltimo...Chevrolet/Volt/
1G1RD6E49BU101049
1G1RD6E42BU101376

Let's check back in a week and see if they are still there

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Quote from GTS:

Here's the one:
http://www.ourismanchevrolet.com/ne...11-5101006.html
1G1RD6E42BU101006

Here are the other two:
http://ourismanrockmont.com/Baltimo...Chevrolet/Volt/
1G1RD6E49BU101049
1G1RD6E42BU101376

Let's check back in a week and see if they are still there

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

GM gave every dealer a demo so that they could at least have one available for people to see. Then, people can place factory orders. Sorry to dissapoint your findings.

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Chevy Volt Sales Slump, Prompting GM to (a) Ask for More Taxpayer Handouts; and (b) Introduce New, Unsellable _Convertible_ Volt

"It’s electric unless you’re driving in it."

Need a $41,000 gas-electric-nuclear-and-coal-powered hybrid? Well, neither did everyone else in America.

Recent reports find that General Motors (GM) is lobbying for the passage of legislation by Michigan [Democrat] Senator Debbie Stabenow that would turn a $7,500 electric vehicle tax credit into a rebate that will be available to all consumers at the point of sale. It's been dubbed "Cash for Clunkers II".




...Apparently, Chevy is not pleased with its sales -- 321 units sold in January and 281 in February -- out of 30,000 cars made for 2011, and a planned 45,000 to be made in 2012... At that rate, just 3,600 of the cars will be sold this year, [only] 12 percent of the supply.

...Since GM's initial public offering in November, the government sponsored automaker has been desperate to boost overall sales on a monthly basis. As such, GM boosted buyer incentives for the past four months. GM's incentive spending averaged about $3,663 per vehicle in January, and $3,732 in February, more than $1,100 over the industry average.

...According to the CarConnection.com, "That's increased GM's market share - albeit at the expense of image, resale value, and even company profits - oddly, at a time when most other automakers have admitted that such a strategy doesn't make long-term business sense."
Since they can't sell units to actual customers, GM has convinced Barack Obama to buy costly, inefficient, ghastly vehicles on your dime.

Which also prompted the geniuses at GM to introduce a... yes, you asked for it... a Volt convertible.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/20...ting-gm-to.html

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Quote from bone:

GM has six months of Silverado truck inventory sitting in dealer lots. Everybody is buying the Ford F-150 with the V-6 TwinTurbo EcoBoost motor - gas mileage is actually very good as trucks go, and it will tow 10K pounds when you need it. The Silverado has no V-6 available.

This is what happens when the government gets into the business of choosing winners and losers in the marketplace.

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Chevy Volt Sales Slump, Prompting GM to (a) Ask for More Taxpayer Handouts; and (b) Introduce New, Unsellable _Convertible_ Volt

"It’s electric unless you’re driving in it."

Need a $41,000 gas-electric-nuclear-and-coal-powered hybrid? Well, neither did everyone else in America.

Recent reports find that General Motors (GM) is lobbying for the passage of legislation by Michigan [Democrat] Senator Debbie Stabenow that would turn a $7,500 electric vehicle tax credit into a rebate that will be available to all consumers at the point of sale. It's been dubbed "Cash for Clunkers II".




...Apparently, Chevy is not pleased with its sales -- 321 units sold in January and 281 in February -- out of 30,000 cars made for 2011, and a planned 45,000 to be made in 2012... At that rate, just 3,600 of the cars will be sold this year, [only] 12 percent of the supply.

...Since GM's initial public offering in November, the government sponsored automaker has been desperate to boost overall sales on a monthly basis. As such, GM boosted buyer incentives for the past four months. GM's incentive spending averaged about $3,663 per vehicle in January, and $3,732 in February, more than $1,100 over the industry average.

...According to the CarConnection.com, "That's increased GM's market share - albeit at the expense of image, resale value, and even company profits - oddly, at a time when most other automakers have admitted that such a strategy doesn't make long-term business sense."
Since they can't sell units to actual customers, GM has convinced Barack Obama to buy costly, inefficient, ghastly vehicles on your dime.

Which also prompted the geniuses at GM to introduce a... yes, you asked for it... a Volt convertible.

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/20...ting-gm-to.html

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Quote from bone:

Take that crap to the Daily KOS.

SOURCE: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics. (2011). Digest of Education Statistics, 2010 (NCES 2011-015), Table 188 and Chapter 2 .

Current expenditures per pupil in fall enrollment in public elementary and secondary schools: Selected years, 1961-62 through 2007-08

School Year
Current expenditures in unadjusted dollars
Current expenditures in constant 2008-09 dollars

2007-08

10,297

10,441

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I respect the fact that Sandy has some insider knowledge of what's going on at the dealership. A few things that immediately come to mind...First off, he/she is working at dealership outside of D.C.; probably one of a handful of areas in this country that has not been dramatically impacted by the events of the past 3-4 years. Second, it's an area with many government employees that may or may not have department heads that are going to mandate Chevy Volt useage for the employees.

Lastly, while we are hearing all about the Volt, there is plenty of public information about the massive inventory glut of all the other GM lines. So, I view this rebuttal by Sandy as a bit misleading. Sure, a limited production of the most hyped vehicle in recent memory might show demand, but what about the massive inventory glut of everything else GM makes?

__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

Consumer Reports was somewhat brutal regarding the Volt:

http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet...er-reports.html

"We would have really liked to have loved it," David Champion, director of Consumer Reports auto test center told Reuters on Monday after announcing the organization's top picks for 2011.
"It was fun to drive and the ride quality was pretty good. But when you look at the finances, for us it doesn't make any sense," Champion said.

__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

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Quote from bone:

Consumer Reports was somewhat brutal regarding the Volt:

http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet...er-reports.html

"We would have really liked to have loved it," David Champion, director of Consumer Reports auto test center told Reuters on Monday after announcing the organization's top picks for 2011.
"It was fun to drive and the ride quality was pretty good. But when you look at the finances, for us it doesn't make any sense," Champion said.

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In spite of how much I dislike GM and its taxpayer funded dysfunction, I'm hoping the concept of the Volt works out. Obviously it's not going to be efficient for long trips, but for many commuters it should hit the efficiency sweet spot while still allowing them the option of longer trips if need be. If I commuted I'd strongly consider buying one. The Volt may not be ideal but I think it represents progress.

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Quote from denner:
I respect the fact that Sandy has some insider knowledge of what's going on at the dealership. A few things that immediately come to mind...First off, he/she is working at dealership outside of D.C.; probably one of a handful of areas in this country that has not been dramatically impacted by the events of the past 3-4 years. Second, it's an area with many government employees that may or may not have department heads that are going to mandate Chevy Volt useage for the employees.

Lastly, while we are hearing all about the Volt, there is plenty of public information about the massive inventory glut of all the other GM lines. So, I view this rebuttal by Sandy as a bit misleading. Sure, a limited production of the most hyped vehicle in recent memory might show demand, but what about the massive inventory glut of everything else GM makes?

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

The phrase "if you build it, they will come" is very true in the car business.

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__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

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Quote from bone:
From my viewpoint, Americans want to see GM succeed. It's the idea of the government choosing and financing winners and losers in the free enterprise system either through direct bail-outs or tax breaks that galls many of us and indeed provides the friction point that you observe, Sandy. Personally, I wish you the very best.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Why is everybody still calling them "Government Motors". The government is not running them. What other involvement does the government have in them that they don't have in Toyota or Ford? What other bailout's are they continually getting that is keeping them afloat?

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Quote from GTS:

GM would not exist today in anything like its current form if it were not for the gov't. It owes its existence to the gov't.

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Quote from DHOHHI:

And so do the banks! Do we call them Government "Sachs, Goverment" Stanley", Government "Morgan"? And so on.

From 2008:
Goldman Sachs, which accepted $10 billion in government money, and lost $2.1 billion last quarter, announced Tuesday that it handed out $10.93 billion in benefits, bonuses, and compensation for the year.

Plenty more examples if they need to be posted.

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__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

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Quote from DHOHHI:

And so do the banks! Do we call them Government "Sachs, Goverment" Stanley", Government "Morgan"? And so on.

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Sandybestdog, I wish you the best during this depression. (Oh yes, this is a true depression. It's not like the Great Depression as the countless govt. programs out there being used today are "masking" the reality, thus no bread and soup lines. Today, people who qualify can get an atm card to go get cash with, not to mention food programs, morgtage relief, and so on...)

I once sold cars many, many moons ago. I did new and used, and the used cars were how I survived. More gross in them, vs. the all too common mini-deal on a new piece.

I've got a very good Friend who still sells cars, and he told me recently that he's going to go to work for a company that does these traveling "tent sales"/on-site sales selling used cars. He's working for a large GM/Cadillac dealership, and says the money just isn't there anymore outside of used pieces. Hopefully you're in a better area.

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Quote from LEAPup:

Sandybestdog, I wish you the best during this depression. (Oh yes, this is a true depression. It's not like the Great Depression as the countless govt. programs out there being used today are "masking" the reality, thus no bread and soup lines. Today, people who qualify can get an atm card to go get cash with, not to mention food programs, morgtage relief, and so on...)

I once sold cars many, many moons ago. I did new and used, and the used cars were how I survived. More gross in them, vs. the all too common mini-deal on a new piece.

I've got a very good Friend who still sells cars, and he told me recently that he's going to go to work for a company that does these traveling "tent sales"/on-site sales selling used cars. He's working for a large GM/Cadillac dealership, and says the money just isn't there anymore outside of used pieces. Hopefully you're in a better area.

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__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Thanks for the kind words. I understand the frustration people would have towards GM but I don't understand all this bailout talk and such. They got a loan from the government while going through bankruptcy. So did other company's. Why is everybody still calling them "Government Motors". The government is not running them. What other involvement does the government have in them that they don't have in Toyota or Ford? What other bailout's are they continually getting that is keeping them afloat? The $7500 tax credit is just as available to Leaf's as it is to Volt's.

By the way, I don't work for GM. I work for my dealer. Like I said, I have plenty issues with them related to how what they do affects me working for a dealer selling their products.

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Quote from LEAPup:
Sandybestdog, I wish you the best during this depression. (Oh yes, this is a true depression. It's not like the Great Depression as the countless govt. programs out there being used today are "masking" the reality, thus no bread and soup lines. Today, people who qualify can get an atm card to go get cash with, not to mention food programs, morgtage relief, and so on...)

I once sold cars many, many moons ago. I did new and used, and the used cars were how I survived. More gross in them, vs. the all too common mini-deal on a new piece.

I've got a very good Friend who still sells cars, and he told me recently that he's going to go to work for a company that does these traveling "tent sales"/on-site sales selling used cars. He's working for a large GM/Cadillac dealership, and says the money just isn't there anymore outside of used pieces. Hopefully you're in a better area.

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Sandy, I will buy my next GM from you.

What is the waiting list and sticker like for a ZR-1 ?

__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

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Quote from denner:
I've come to the conclusion that the real money is in "fixing" all these cars, namely repair shops. Of course, the auto dealers literally make a mint off of their service operations, but even the smaller operators make a pretty good buck doing some of the routine service or, God forbid, an out of warranty major repair.

The bigger difference is most people don't have a "blue book" or "NADA price guide" handy when they go to the repair shop. There is very little in the way of uniform pricing and those are the businesses that can literally make a mint.

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:
I'm afraid this post cast a lot of doubt on the credibility of your other posts about Volts. What ticked people off is that the Obama administration ran roughshod over bondholders, other creditors and BTW a lot of dealerships so that they could hand a giant taxpayer-financed subsidy to the UAW, a big obama and democrat party contributor. They called it "saving jobs", but to many, it looked like a rip-off and payoff. Ironically, it went to the very people whose lavish benefits, etc made GM uncompetitive in the first place.

There is no reason GM and Chrysler could not have been reorganized in a traditional bankruptcy. The viable components would have been preserved, but under a cost structure that made some sense. All Obama ende up doing was kicking this particular can down the road by a few years, which seems to be his policy on quite a lot of issues. Does anyone doubt that GM, under its current cost structure, will require another bailout in the near future?

Turning to the Volt issue, you say they are on allocation, but the article I posted said only a very small percentage of those that have been made have been sold. Now either you or the author are wrong or GM is for some reason holding Volts off the market. Which is it?

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Quote from bone:
Sandy, I will buy my next GM from you.
What is the waiting list and sticker like for a ZR-1 ?

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

And where is this convertible Volt coming from? I have never heard anything like it. Such a stupid article it cannot even be considered news.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

I'm afraid that your post casts doubt on your ability to form a reasonable argument. First off it was during the Bush White House that the corporate bailout's began. Obama simply continued them. It's amazing how you people think Bush and the Republican's ran the economy great and Obama is doing a horrible job. They have both run it almost the exact same way! Bailouts for company's, cutting or continuing tax cuts while increasing spending and running up deficits. They both did the exact same thing! How is one good and the other bad?

I don't understand your argument. They went through bankruptcy. That's what happens during bankruptcy. The bondholders, dealerships, etc get screwed over. The UAW has made concessions as well. You think I like the UAW? They have driven up the legacy costs so high that it causes the vehicles I sell to be more expensive.

I did not say they are on allocation. I have no idea. I don't follow that stuff. Let's analyze the article you posted. It's so full of inaccuracy's I don't know where to begin. But if it's on the internet, it must be true. Especially if it's some keyboard commando on a blog. It said "Apparently, Chevy is not pleased with its sales -- 321 units sold in January and 281 in February -- out of 30,000 cars made for 2011, and a planned 45,000 to be made in 2012... At that rate, just 3,600 of the cars will be sold this year, [only] 12 percent of the supply." Excuse me but where are the 30,000 cars that were made? Are they hiding somewhere? Maybe somebody could find them on Google maps. 30,000 is the target production for the whole year you idiot. Those 30,000 have not been made, so how can they be sold? The year is not over. They only sold a couple hundred in January and February. Well duh? Those were the first three production months. What did you expect them to start making 5000 a month right from the start? Plus they allocated about 500 to be dealership demos. These were made but they have not been sold. Eventually they will be. And where is this convertible Volt coming from? I have never heard anything like it. Such a stupid article it cannot even be considered news.

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Obama's plan was to screw the legitimate secured creditors and make a big gift to the UAW. Kind of like what he is doing to the country at large. Give huge gifts to unionized government employees to maintain their lavish benefits under the label of stimulus and screw the rest of us who get to pay for it.

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Quote from LEAPup:

That pretty much sums up the Odumba administration.

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Enough said... gm is still a fucking joke.

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:
So let me see if I understand your argument. GM, which is desperate to sell cars, is just refusing to build Volts, which have a huge pentup demand. The only reason the sales numbers aren't off the charts is that the cars are not available.

I'm not going to make jokes about car salesmens' credibility, but can't you see that this sounds a little hard to believe? Are there stats to back it up?

As for the auto bailouts, Bush gave them short term loans as he was leaving office. It was hardly a bailout. He thought the new president should have the chance to come up with his own plan for them. Obama's plan was to screw the legitimate secured creditors and make a big gift to the UAW. Kind of like what he is doing to the country at large. Give huge gifts to unionized government employees to maintain their lavish benefits under the label of stimulus and screw the rest of us who get to pay for it.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

What stat's would you like me to provide?...

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Quote from denner:



On your other point, you echo my sentiments exactly about this depression. Or as somebody coined it the "silent depression" as there can be no outward signs of the guy down the street who strat. defaulted on his mortgage, collects those unemployment checks and quietly lives off of food stamps.

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Quote from BSAM:
Dog---

Just do the right thing and go to work selling Fords, Hondas, or Toyotas. We'll all get along then. GM has got a bad name in this country. Face it.

BTW--While maybe it's true at your dealership, you don't really believe that a Cruze can't be bought for less than "full price"...do you?

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

What stat's would you like me to provide? I don't understand your argument. What are you trying to prove? That demand is not there when it is when every dealer is begging for these? It's a new product. The battery packs are difficult to manufacture. I know it's hard for you to understand, but there are logistical things behind making these. They want to get it right on a small scale and slowly ramp up productions. Isn't that how it's supposed to be done? They know that ignorant people like you would like nothing more than for them to prematurely ramp up production and then have something go wrong. GM said from the start that it will probably lose money selling the Volt. The Volt is just the start of a new concept. GM's other brands are what is keeping it afloat. They are selling Cruze's, Camaro's, and Equinox's at full price right now. No rebates are needed.

This thread has gone from "the Volt is no good and there is no demand for it and GM is begging the government to subsidize it" to "oh we just hate GM cause they took a bailout and they're union". Come on, Bush gave them a little short term loan but Obama was the real crook?

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:
Why all the anger and insults?

Actually, I have nothing against GM. I drive a Tahoe and it's totally great. Had several GM products before that and liked them all a lot. All I was looking for was some confirmation that GM is not pushing out Volts. We know the sales figures have been terrible. You say it is because there is no inventory. Others say GM has made plenty of them and there is no demand. When you look at the high price, issues about range, etc the car looks like a tough sell to me but I'm not in a dealership every day. Whatever.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:
Because you are being ignorant.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:
... Ran my life so that it pleased all the miserable people on ET.

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Quote from Lucrum:

Is this where I get in line for insults?

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What's really going on with Chevy Volt sales?
by Sebastian Blanco (RSS feed) on Jun 3rd 2011 at 7:39PM


Now that the latest monthly sales numbers for the Chevrolet Volt are in (and, yes, they were lower in May), we wanted to share a few lines of thought about what might be going on. First, let's put together the pieces we know and that everyone agrees on.

Point One: General Motors has long said that Volt production, which began late last year, would ramp up slowly. It also said in March that Volt sales would rise in May.

Point Two: In mid-May, GM issued a statement confirming it planned to shut down the Hamtramck, MI plant where the Volt is made for four weeks beginning in June in order to get ready for the 2012 Volt and Opel Ampera models. (GM has historically had two-week annual summer shutdowns to effect model year changeovers). As GM notes, this temporary shutdown of the Volt's assembly lines will "result in limited availability and reduced sales [of the Volt] in June and July."

So, instead of sales rising in May (which they obviously didn't), GM now seems to be suggesting an increase won't happen until August. All along, we've heard that the problem is limited supply. We asked GM spokesperson Rob Peterson about this (again) and he told AutoblogGreen:

"We have limited supply of Volts - as of earlier this week, our records indicated that there were fewer than 200 available on dealer lots (some sites will show more as dealers often post vehicles with delivery dates in the future). Many of those on the ground are in the process of sales as well, so again - supply is very thin (especially when you consider we have nearly 600 dealers in launch markets). Volt sales have leveled off in April, May and June. July will be low as the plant is now shut down and the pipeline will dry up. However, when production begins again in mid-July, the line will be running nearly three-fold.

But - and here's the kicker - at least one GM representative has reportedly admitted that the Volt's problem is soft demand, not low production. Speaking with the Daily Caller, GM's Director of Policy and Washington Communications, Greg Martin, said that (as paraphrased by the Daily Caller):

"Its underwhelming sales numbers have a lot to do with the fact that it's a new vehicle, there still is not an adequate infrastructure in place for the advanced battery, and the technology is only scalable to a certain point. That means that any GM-manufactured electric car will be a small car "with a technology that comes with a price." Not exactly the apple of the soccer mom's eye."

So, what's really going on here? Peterson said he would check the Daily Caller story and potentially ask for a correction, so perhaps the reporter didn't get the story straight, or perhaps Martin is uninformed, but given his position, this seems unlikely. Either way, it's likely to take at least a few more months of sales before we can have enough of a trend to judge whether the Volt is really selling well or not.

What do you think is really going on? Have your say in Comments.

[Source: Daily Caller]
http://green.autoblog.com/2011/06/0...whats-going-on/

Auto blog: Sales of Chevy Volt plummet -- only 281 sold last month
By: David Freddoso | Online Opinion Editor Follow him @freddoso

| 03/03/11 10:38 AM Looks like President Obama's going to have to arrange another series of government acquisitions, 'cause this isn't good:

Peruse Chevrolet's February sales release, and you'll notice one number that's blatantly missing: the number of Chevy Volts sold. The number – a very modest 281 – is available in the company's detailed data (PDF), but it certainly isn't something that GM wants to highlight, apparently. Keeping the number quiet is a bit understandable, since it's lower than the 321 that Chevy sold in January.

Note that it's also lower than the 326 that sold in December. There are about 9,200 left to sell.

MORE ON THESE TOPICS


Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs...h#ixzz1Rpaio6Tw

GM: Chevy Volt production to increase to 60,000 vehicles a year at Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly

Published: Thursday, May 19, 2011, 8:13 AM Updated: Thursday, May 19, 2011, 8:45 AM
By Michael Wayland | MLive.com MLive.com


The future of General Motors Co. looks electric.

The Detroit automaker will reconfigure its Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant that makes the Chevrolet Volt to expand production to up to 60,000 electric cars a year.

The plant, which recently announced a $3 million solar array, currently produces about 16,000 Volts a year.

GM said the extended-range electric vehicle will be in short supply for the next three months because of the scheduled four-week shutdown that begins in June.


“The Volt will be available to customers nationwide by the end of 2011,” said Cristi Landy, director of Chevrolet Volt Marketing, in a statement. “By taking the time to reconfigure the plant, we will be better able to meet the tremendous consumer demand.”

GM officials say by moving in new machinery and overhead conveyors, the company will be able to boost the plant's output of the Volt and its European counterpart, the Opel Ampera.

The Volt, which costs about $32,780 after a $7,500 tax incentive, can drive up to 50 miles on battery power alone and then uses a small gasoline engine connected to a generator to power the electric motor.

Earlier this month, GM announced a $2 billion investment at 17 U.S. plants in connection with increasing production of the Volt, and other vehicles.

The shutdown also will let GM add equipment to build the 2013 Chevrolet Malibu midsize sedan at the plant starting next year. GM will stop producing two other big cars at the factory, the Cadillac DTS and Buick Lucerne, later this year.

The Volt hit the U.S. market late last year and just over 1,700 have been sold through April. The car is now available in nine states and Washington D.C. By the end of this year, Volts will be sold nationwide and in Europe, China and Canada.

This week, the Volt was officially introduced to Japan at the annual Spring Congress of the Japan Society of Automotive Engineers in Yokohama.

The Associated Press contributed to this article.

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf...oduction_a.html

July 7, 2011 7:48 AM PDT
Nissan Leaf overshadows Chevy Volt in June sales
by Don Reisinger Print E-mail Share 48 comments
The Nissan Leaf leads the electric car battle.


The Nissan Leaf is, so far, leading the race in the electric-car space.

In June, Nissan sold 1,708 Leaf units in the U.S., easily overshadowing Chevrolet's Volt, which tallied 561 unit sales. In May, Nissan sold 1,142 Leaf units while Chevrolet sold 481 Volts.

Nissan's Leaf is a fully electric vehicle and is capable of driving for about 75 miles on a single charge. The Volt, by contrast, is a hybrid that lasts about 35 miles on a single electric charge before its gas engine kicks in.

Although the Volt is far behind in sales, it apparently has little to do with the car's popularity. Speaking to Automobile Magazine in a article published earlier this week, Chevrolet spokesman Rob Peterson said the small sales figure is due to the Volt production plant being offline over the last five weeks for renovations to increase production.

Peterson told Automobile Magazine that three times as many Volts will be built in the new plant and that the company still expects to sell 10,000 units by the end of this year.

Nissan's Leaf has a $32,780 price tag, while Chevrolet's Volt comes in at $40,280.


Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-2.../#ixzz1RpcmRuLK

Let's take everything GM said at face value. What does it say about them? Their most imnportant new vehicle launch in decades probably, and they are not able to produce enough cars in the first six months of production to sell more than a handful of units. Nissan is eating their lunch. GM's response is to...take the plant off line?????????????????

Call me crazy but I would be producing flatout around the clock if there were really any demand for this vehicle. Consumers are fickle. Next year something else may be the flavor of the month. Who knows what Toyota or Honda come up with? There are suggestions that the problems are with the battery manufacturer. Do you really think Toyota or honda would stage a huge rollout of a vehicle when they had supply chain constraints?

I really hope this thing succeeds beyond anyone's dreams. Another bailout for GM would be a disaster for all involved. It has the stink of failure on it already however. That can become a vicious circle, as no one wants to get stuck with a loser car that makes them the laughingstock of the neighborhood.

The car may be fine, I have no idea, but their marketing strategy is beyond idiotic.

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

... but their marketing strategy is beyond idiotic.

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Let's take everything GM said at face value. What does it say about them? Their most imnportant new vehicle launch in decades probably, and they are not able to produce enough cars in the first six months of production to sell more than a handful of units. Nissan is eating their lunch. GM's response is to...take the plant off line?????????????????

Call me crazy but I would be producing flatout around the clock if there were really any demand for this vehicle. Consumers are fickle. Next year something else may be the flavor of the month. Who knows what Toyota or Honda come up with? There are suggestions that the problems are with the battery manufacturer. Do you really think Toyota or honda would stage a huge rollout of a vehicle when they had supply chain constraints?

I really hope this thing succeeds beyond anyone's dreams. Another bailout for GM would be a disaster for all involved. It has the stink of failure on it already however. That can become a vicious circle, as no one wants to get stuck with a loser car that makes them the laughingstock of the neighborhood.

The car may be fine, I have no idea, but their marketing strategy is beyond idiotic.

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After having a quick look see I definitely prefer the Nissan Leaf over the Volt.

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Let's take everything GM said at face value. What does it say about them? Their most imnportant new vehicle launch in decades probably, and they are not able to produce enough cars in the first six months of production to sell more than a handful of units. Nissan is eating their lunch. GM's response is to...take the plant off line?????????????????

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Y'all try not to get too upset with ol' dog. He's just doing what he's been trained to do. He's defending his business/product.

However, the real question is this: Why in the world would anyone buy a G(overnment) M(otors) vehicle when such fine products as Ford, Honda, and Toyota exist?

I test drove the new 2012 Honda Civic today. Wowzakapowza!!!

(Scratching head)...Aw shucks...Maybe I'm just stooopid and don't know no better cause I ain't never had no car...hehehe.

Ford has most definitely upped their game - big time. The family and the Company put everything on the line a few years ago to secure the required financing (did it themselves, the way it's supposed to be done in a free enterprise system) to completely revamp their manufacturing efforts. The industry reviews, the sales, and the buzz surrounding their vehicles has been impressive. Yes, I own one Honda and two Nissans. And I would not hesitate to buy Ford these days. GM, I would give pause. Chrysler, I love the muscle cars of times past, but have had issues with vehicles I ordered new in the nineties and early 2000's. The Jeep Rubicon was OK mechanically but the build quality and paint sucked. The Dodge was just garbage. And I use full synthetics for the fluids and follow the 'severe duty' maintenance schedule. I have not had one single problem with two brand new Ford Mustangs - one a GT and the other a 500. Not one.

__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

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Quote from DHOHHI:

With all due respect you really don't know anything about the auto industry. It's not just GM but Ford, Toyota and everyone else does changeover in tooling between model years since new models (2012) are not the same as old models (2011). Trust me -- I know as I built scheduling systems for the US Big 3. Every summer there were shutdowns of the plants.

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/201...ded-production/

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The problem with the volt is I do not see the value proposition. First the Government subsidizes the cost of a volt to the tune of 7500 dollars. I have an issue with that to begin with. If it is such a great value proposition, the market will price appropriately and demand will grow along with it.

The volt is priced in the premium luxury car range, For 15.9K MSRP you can get a Corolla that gets 28/35 MPG.

So someone who is trying to save on gas cost due to budget constraints is not going to pony up 40-50K for a volt. And some dealers are pocketing the 7500 bucks by selling the Volts as used, in addition to selling above MSRP.

Your cost per mile will be much cheaper with a Toyota Corolla than one of these exotic volts.

Once the geeks,select movie stars and politicians buy the Chevy Volt I just do not see a big market for this Vehicle.

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

It's not that hard a concept to grasp, seriously.

The bigger point is that GM is saying simultaneously that the Volt is in big demand but the sales figures are atrocious. They try to reconcile that by saying they don't have enough cars to sell. I couldn't find anything about how many Volts they had actually produced thus far versus their planned production of 16,000 units in '11.

All I'm really saying is they seriously messed up the rollout of this car. This is not some juiced up special edition muscle car. It is what they envision as the company saver. Yet somehow, in the crucial intro year, they want us to believe they only sold a few hundred of them because they somehow didn't or couldn't make enough of them.

Maybe it's all true, which is an even scarier thought if you're a GM stockholder.

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Who needs a Volt? Why won't the government let us drive golf carts in 30mph zones. How much would this save?

Whats the battery decay on these things. Will it only be able to charge 50% after 2 years?

brace yourselves gents.
we going to CRASH N BURN!!!

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Quote from Rehoboth:
Whats the battery decay on these things. Will it only be able to charge 50% after 2 years?

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

There is an 8yr/100k warranty on the battery.

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Quote from GTS:
Do you know how degraded the battery would need to get to be eligible for warranty replacement?

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Not much. We already had one battery pack replaced. Some minor $10 parts weren't working correctly. Instead of fixing it, they overnighted a new battery pack and it was installed. Kind of cool to see the battery pack outside the car.

But I guess you can believe what you want.

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Quote from Rehoboth:

I dont doubt the warranty on the battery, I am more talking about the decay. A what point would the warranty kick in for decay purposes. When it only gets 45 miles per charge 40, 35?

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Quote from Rehoboth:
I dont doubt the warranty on the battery, I am more talking about the decay. A what point would the warranty kick in for decay purposes. When it only gets 45 miles per charge 40, 35?

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Quote from GTS:
Yes, that was exactly my question - I would still like to know the answer.

The battery pack is too expensive to leave this to a judgment call of the dealership service dept - it should be documented in writing what the threshold is.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

How can you say what the threshold is? My customer just emailed me yesterday and said he can get 53 miles to a charge. John Doe over there blasts the AC, weaves in and out of traffic and is constantly seeing if he can improve his 0-60 time. He only gets 25 miles to a charge and then goes to his service department and complains that it's not getting the advertised average 35 miles anymore.

The simple answer is that when you go into service, which won't be much seeing how electric vehicles require very little maintenance compared to gas ones, they plug it into a computer and it reads all kinds of data off of your car. I'm sure there is a way for the computer to tell you if it is putting out the full amount of charge that it used to and is supposed to.

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Do people actually buy a volt to save on transportation costs? those cars cost like mid 40's You can get a BMW 3 series for that price.

Look at what you can get with BMW for a Volt price.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Cont...K1ly43HVFvNow==

And thats not counting discounts from MSRP (negotating with BMW dealer) where the volt is selling over discount and dealers pocketing the tax credits according to CNN etc.


3.0-liter, inline 6-cylinder engine
Rear-wheel drive
See all standard features
28 MPG

Base MSRP
$34,600
Platinum Bronze Metallic
$550
Beige Dakota Leather
$0
Dark Burl Walnut wood trim
$0
Convenience Package
$2,350
Premium Package
$2,650
Value Package
$0
STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
$0
Destination & Handling:
$875
BMW Ultimate Service™
A suite of premium benefits that are included at no cost with all new BMW Vehicles.
4 Years/50,000 Miles Warranty
Included
4 Years/50,000 Miles Maintenance Program
Included
4 Years/Unlimited Mileage Roadside Assistance
Included
Total MSRP as Built$41,025

The problem I see for this vehicle is twofold. One, as already mentioned, any savings in fuel costs are totally eclipsed by the high purchase price.

Two, they are aiming at a pretty narrow demographic, basically Prius buyers. I don't see too many gearheads trading in their Camaros for one. The Prius crowd would rather eat the meat of protected species than be caught dead in an american car. Plus, they can always buy a Nissan Leaf if they just have to have a glorified golf cart.

Has this been posted?

How much does a new battery pack cost? Then, how much would the labor fee cost for installation?

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

The problem I see for this vehicle is twofold. One, as already mentioned, any savings in fuel costs are totally eclipsed by the high purchase price.

Two, they are aiming at a pretty narrow demographic, basically Prius buyers. I don't see too many gearheads trading in their Camaros for one. The Prius crowd would rather eat the meat of protected species than be caught dead in an american car. Plus, they can always buy a Nissan Leaf if they just have to have a glorified golf cart.

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Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

The problem I see for this vehicle is twofold. One, as already mentioned, any savings in fuel costs are totally eclipsed by the high purchase price.

Two, they are aiming at a pretty narrow demographic, basically Prius buyers. I don't see too many gearheads trading in their Camaros for one. The Prius crowd would rather eat the meat of protected species than be caught dead in an american car. Plus, they can always buy a Nissan Leaf if they just have to have a glorified golf cart.

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Quote from BSAM:

Has this been posted?

How much does a new battery pack cost? Then, how much would the labor fee cost for installation?

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Quote from GTS:

$8k according to this article...

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Quote from BSAM:

Eight-thousand dollars??? Say what???

If this is correct, I'd say a Volt is out of the question. Talk about "highway" robbery!!

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

I guess if you are worried about that, you just shouldn't buy one. But don't get jealous when your neighbor gets one and he tells you he's gone 2000 miles on one tank of gas.

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Quote from GTS:

Guess you haven't priced Lithium-Ion batteries then, that's just how much they cost.

The volt battery is only 16 kWh, the Nissan Leaf is 24 kWh so I would expect it to cost 50% more, e.g. $12k+ (I couldn't find an actual price on the net, apparently its a secret)

The cost of the battery is really the deal breaker with the current generation of cars (and why they are priced so high), they need to get the cost of Li-Ion batteries down significantly or find an alternate technology to store energy.

Here's some interesting information from the Leaf wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf):

"Warranty

The Leaf's battery warranty is for eight years or 160,000 kilometres (100,000 mi). The warranty covers defects in materials and workmanship, but does not cover gradual loss of battery capacity, nor does it cover damage or failure resulting from not following the preventive actions recommended in the Leaf Owner's Manual for the lithium-ion battery, such as exposing the car to ambient temperatures above 120 °F (49 °C) for over 24 hours, or storing the Leaf in temperatures below −13 °F (−25 °C) for over 7 days."

Here's something from the Volt wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_volt)

"In order to make sure the battery pack would last ten years and 150,000 miles (240,000 km) expected for the battery warranty, the Volt team decided to use only half of the 16 kW capacity to reduce the rate of capacity degradation, limiting the state of charge (SOC) up to 80% of capacity and never depleting the battery below 30%.

General Motors also was expecting the battery could withstand 5,000 full discharges without losing more than 10% of its charge capacity."

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Quote from BSAM:

Eight-thousand dollars??? Say what???

If this is correct, I'd say a Volt is out of the question. Talk about "highway" robbery!!

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Quote from bone:

Ford Raptor

I have been smitten ever since the feature on 'Top Gear'. Thinking about ordering one from Hennessey.

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Quote from Magic8:

fugly.

Silverado is a such a better truck. All around.

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Quote from Rehoboth:
That wasnt even related on topic. What I asked was a simple question, I figured you would know the answer since you work for a dealer. No reason to get defensive.

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brilliant fellas.. argue with a car salesman...

GM will always be shit in the usa, after decades of making...shit.

If you want people to respect the brand, move to china. The chinese love it over there, the buick symbol at least.

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Quote from newguy05:

brilliant fellas.. argue with a car salesman...

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wat the fuk do u expect from goverment motors look how the fuck up everything they touch and dont even dont touch

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Quote from newguy05:
brilliant fellas.. argue with a car salesman...

GM will always be shit in the usa, after decades of making...shit.

If you want people to respect the brand, move to china. The chinese love it over there, the buick symbol at least.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Typical ET. Don't challenge any of my points, just call me a car salesman and be done with it. Anytime you want to have an intelligent conversation, just let me know. Although that seems harder and harder to find on ET.

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Quote from BSAM:

Look in your magic8ball and tell me who has been the #1 selling truck maker for about 35 years. Get back with me.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Typical ET. Don't challenge any of my points, just call me a car salesman and be done with it. Anytime you want to have an intelligent conversation, just let me know. Although that seems harder and harder to find on ET.

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Quote from Magic8:

Real men drive GM trucks, with V-8 engines.

Everyone else... girly men.

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Quote from LEAPup:

The only GM I'd ever entertain owning these days is the C6 Vette. I like the new Grand Sport in triple black (vert), with the 6 speed, LT3 package, Z51, Nav, etc., I'd love to have one of those to put a paxton supercharger on, larger injectors, headers, borla exhaust, and a nice tune. Should be able to get close to 600 rear wheel hp out of a setup like that.

Nothing like shifting into 3rd at 105mph climbing up to 155mph in a blink, then slowing back down to cruising speed before going to jail! lol

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Quote from BSAM:

Eight-thousand dollars??? Say what???

If this is correct, I'd say a Volt is out of the question. Talk about "highway" robbery!!

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__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

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Quote from Magic8:

Real men drive GM trucks, with V-8 engines.

Everyone else... girly men.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

I don't know the exact point at which it could be determined that the battery has eroded enough to be covered under warranty. I don't work in service and don't handle the warranties. The simple answer is, nobody knows. That's life. GM has done their testing and is confident enough that they will work for an acceptable lifetime. This argument was used years ago with the Prius and they have held up fine. Again, if anybody is concerned with the battery technology, the simple answer is to not buy one. While you're at it, don't bother buying a laptop either, since that has the same type of battery as the Volt.

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NYPD buys 50 Chevy Volts

NYPD buys 50 Chevy Volts

http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/15/...-new-ways-to-t/

GM, really?

This is the first ever trading thread I have read with multiple GM truck fans. I hope you need a truck for work b/c otherwise there is no reason to buy one. My first car was a Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and I learned fast that sadly the USA, the industrial power that won WWII, now makes sh*tty automotive products. If you want quality go German. As an American not proud to say it, but its true. The unions destroyed our auto industry.

__________________
"Government is essentially the negation of liberty"
- Ludwig von Mises

Hybrids and full electric cars are going to make more and more economical sense in the next 5 to 10 years. Just look at Nissan Leaf - around 25K after all the deductions, rebates, etc. I wanted to get one but apparently they are all sold out for the whole year. I spend around $350 to $400 dollars a month on gasoline that does not include trips outside of the city. For that kind of money I could lease or get a loan to obtain Leaf and never see a gas station for fuel again. Now, I do not have to tell you how this scenario would tilt if gasoline were to jump to 8 dollars a gallon. Good luck riding your V8s. Some people use their cars for what they were intended for (transportation) and some use them to compensate.

That 600hp Vette must be one penis extender that is for sure. LOL

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Quote from Rehoboth:
What on earth are you talking about? Most of this discussion is either about the battery/warranty or the cost effectiveness of this car. Yes there is the gm=shit talk, but besides that people have very good points which you cant answer; which is fine, you answer what you dont know. So what points are you saying? Because I really want this car to work, but as a representative, you are doing a terrible job.

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Quote from newguy05:

Explain this to a potential chevy customer first:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...331#post3233331

Window get stuck ok, AC broke fine, transmission goes bad tough luck. Steering wheel falls over while going 65MPH. And this is from the "new and improved" GM. I think the chinese BYD engineers are laughing their ass off.

Just admit you are working for a dead company that's the laughingstock of this country and move on.

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Re: GM, really?

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Quote from StonewallJ:

This is the first ever trading thread I have read with multiple GM truck fans. I hope you need a truck for work b/c otherwise there is no reason to buy one. My first car was a Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and I learned fast that sadly the USA, the industrial power that won WWII, now makes sh*tty automotive products. If you want quality go German. As an American not proud to say it, but its true. The unions destroyed our auto industry.

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Hey Chevy fans, who is the best selling truck maker for thirty-four years in a row?

Tell me.

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Quote from BSAM:

Hey Chevy fans, who is the best selling truck maker for thirty-four years in a row?

Tell me.

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Quote from Magic8:

Best selling... doesn't mean better.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/1...he-rockies.html

Chevy blew the doors off Ford. Read and weep.

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Quote from BSAM:
LOL...Some test, somewhere. Big deal.

Thirty-four years, Mr. Magic. Thirty-four years! Now that's impressive!

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Keep in mind that GM sells the same truck under two different names - Silverado and Sienna. I really don't care about bashing Ford, they are putting out some really good products.

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Quote from BSAM:
Hmmm...Perhaps you meant "Sierra", since "Sienna" is a Toyota minivan. Maybe your dealer carries Toyotas also? Otherwise, thanks for your honesty concerning Ford.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Yes sorry, I meant Sierra. The truth is almost any car you buy these days is a good one. It's really just about your preference. But it seems Chevy, Ford, Hyundai, and Subaru are really leading the pack. When somebody comes in to drive a Cruze, I ask them what else they are considering. Usually before they answer, I say the Focus and Elantra, right? They give me a weird look and ask me how did I know. I've lost a few deals to them, but I'm sure I have swiped a few as well. It's funny, they never mention Honda or Toyota. My dealership also sells Honda's. It's really no comparison between the two. Mr Opportunity can keep knocking, but it seems nobody's home.

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Quote from BSAM:
I don't know if you are in what I would call a major market, but if those Honda's aren't selling like hotcakes, perhaps you're not in a large market. Don't say if you don't want to...(I wouldn't.) Or, I missed it, if you already did.

When you say "it's really no comparison between the two", you mean that you sell a lot more Chevys than Hondas. Is this correct?

---

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...ing_581956.html

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Quote from wilburbear:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...ing_581956.html

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GM’s Chevrolet Volt Will Miss 2011 Sales Target

GM’s Chevrolet Volt Will Miss 2011 Sales Target

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-in-hybrid.html

Re: GM’s Chevrolet Volt Will Miss 2011 Sales Target

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Quote from GTS:

GM’s Chevrolet Volt Will Miss 2011 Sales Target

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...-in-hybrid.html

---

The Chevy dealer in Reno had four Volt's on the lot and I was told I could get them "well under sticker" whatever that means.

What happened to the GM fanboy? Killed himself?

They've sold less than 7,000 units and the things catch fire. Nish!

Some Chevy dealers spurn Volt allocation

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.d.../301239977/1261

---

DETROIT -- Some Chevrolet dealers are turning down Volts that General Motors wants to ship to them, a potential stumbling block as GM looks to accelerate sales of the plug-in hybrid.

For example, consider the New York City market. Last month, GM allocated 104 Volts to 14 dealerships in the area, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Dealers took just 31 of them, the lowest take rate for any Chevy model in that market last month. That group of dealers ordered more than 90 percent of the other vehicles they were eligible to take, the source said.

In Clovis, Calif., meanwhile, Brett Hedrick, dealer principal at Hedrick's Chevrolet, sold 10 Volts last year. But in December and January he turned down all six Volts allocated to him under GM's "turn-and-earn" system, which distributes vehicles based on past sales volumes and inventory levels.

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Pretty clear that Sandy was a paid shill.

__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Thank you. Another useless article proving nothing. The Leaf is beating the Volt? We are talking about a 1000 cars. The dealership I work at alone has 1500 cars in stock. 1000 cars is nothing. The amount Nissan and Chevy are producing is miniscule. They are just making sure everything is good and the demand is there before ramping repoduction. Why don't we see how things go in a year when they have made 60,000 of them?

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I have seen maybe one or 2 on the road since they have been released, no one cares for the volt.....

The plug in Prius Hybrid is the way to go and will kill the Volt.

__________________
The trend is your friend.

"Patrick Michaels is a senior fellow in Environmental Studies at the Cato Institute and the editor of the forthcoming Climate Coup: Global Warming's Invasion of our Government and our Lives, as well as the author of several other books on global warming."

The Cato Institute is a libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded in 1977 by Edward H. Crane, who remains president and CEO, and Charles Koch, chairman of the board and chief executive officer of the conglomerate Koch Industries, Inc., the second largest privately held company by revenue in the United States.[3][4]



And Patrick Michaels has next to no credibility among real climate scientists. He is also bought by the fossil fuel industry.

" Among the scientists who testified before this Committee on the issue of climate change in the last Congress, Pat Michaels was the only one to dismiss the need to act on climate change ... Dr. Michaels may have provided misleading information about the sources of his funding and his ties to industries opposed to regulation of emissions responsible for climate change."[14]


So if you like to listen to highly biased,fossil-fuel funded sources, he and the Cato Institute are the ones.

__________________

The future chaos is determined by the current chaos, in a chaotic manner.

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Quote from denner:
Pretty clear that Sandy was a paid shill.

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Quote from atticus:
lol to 60k. They've sold under 10k nationally since the introduction. Epic failure.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

.......................................................... Just don't be jealous when your neighbor gets one and talks about how he went 6 months on one tank of gas.

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__________________

The future chaos is determined by the current chaos, in a chaotic manner.

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Quote from futurecurrents:

"Patrick Michaels is a senior fellow in Environmental Studies at the Cato Institute and the editor of the forthcoming Climate Coup: Global Warming's Invasion of our Government and our Lives, as well as the author of several other books on global warming."

The Cato Institute is a libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded in 1977 by Edward H. Crane, who remains president and CEO, and Charles Koch, chairman of the board and chief executive officer of the conglomerate Koch Industries, Inc., the second largest privately held company by revenue in the United States.[3][4]



And Patrick Michaels has next to no credibility among real climate scientists. He is also bought by the fossil fuel industry.

" Among the scientists who testified before this Committee on the issue of climate change in the last Congress, Pat Michaels was the only one to dismiss the need to act on climate change ... Dr. Michaels may have provided misleading information about the sources of his funding and his ties to industries opposed to regulation of emissions responsible for climate change."[14]


So if you like to listen to highly biased,fossil-fuel funded sources, he and the Cato Institute are the ones.

---

And yet everything I wrote is true.

Let me spell it out to you since you seem unable to connect dots due to your partisan hysteria, irrationality and general stupidity.

Big Oil/Koch Bros/Cato Institute/Fox News.....don't want electric cars or fuel efficiency thus negative propaganda about them and anything to do with green tech.

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Quote from 377OHMS:

More AGW tripe from ET's village idiot. You've taken the crown from tradingjournals. Religious fanaticism belongs in the Politics and Religion forum.

I've wanted a plug-in electric car for years. But then GM took taxpayer money in a bailout. Then the Volt designers started lying about the Volt's design. It is not a pure electric with onboard generator. The gas engine can propel the car making it a hybrid and not a very good one. The whole thing is a lie.

But then it got worse. The safety of the design was grossly compromised to save on production costs leaving it subject to spontaneous combustion. They started producing numbers of vehicles that far exceeded demand. The dealers added a huge local premium on the price despite the lack of demand.

Then GM lied in a tv commericial claiming it had paid back the government bailout money 100%. Totally untrue.

Personally I will never buy a GM product for the rest of my life. I buy Fords for daily use and hauling. Got a couple of old Porsches for fun but I'm really a Ford guy thanks to Barrack Obama.

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__________________

The future chaos is determined by the current chaos, in a chaotic manner.

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Quote from futurecurrents:

And yet everything I wrote is true.

Let me spell it out to you since you seem unable to connect dots due to your partisan hysteria, irrationality and general stupidity.

Big Oil/Koch Bros/Cato Institute/Fox News.....don't want electric cars or fuel efficiency thus negative propaganda about them and anything to do with green tech.

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Quote from 377OHMS:
More AGW tripe from ET's village idiot. You've taken the crown from tradingjournals. Religious fanaticism belongs in the Politics and Religion forum.

I've wanted a plug-in electric car for years. But then GM took taxpayer money in a bailout. Then the Volt designers started lying about the Volt's design. It is not a pure electric with onboard generator. The gas engine can propel the car making it a hybrid and not a very good one. The whole thing is a lie.

But then it got worse. The safety of the design was grossly compromised to save on production costs leaving it subject to spontaneous combustion. They started producing numbers of vehicles that far exceeded demand. The dealers added a huge local premium on the price despite the lack of demand.

Then GM lied in a tv commericial claiming it had paid back the government bailout money 100%. Totally untrue.

Personally I will never buy a GM product for the rest of my life. I buy Fords for daily use and hauling. Got a couple of old Porsches for fun but I'm really a Ford guy thanks to Barrack Obama.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

In it's first 3 years in production, the Prius had total sales just over 30k. How much would you expect the Volt to have in it's first? The battery pack in the Volt is much more substantial as well. The Volt has the highest customer satisfaction rating of any vehicle out right now. You must have a strange definition of epic failure as the facts seem to say the opposite.

But by all means carry on. Just don't be jealous when your neighbor gets one and talks about how he went 6 months on one tank of gas.

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Well, they came out with a nice lease program on the Volt and I have been long over due for a new car, so I bought a Volt. 16 days so far and no gas. Here's a picture of it.



Let the negative comments begin!

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Well, they came out with a nice lease program on the Volt and I have been long over due for a new car, so I bought a Volt. 16 days so far and no gas. Here's a picture of it.



Let the negative comments begin!

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In the new consumer reports they are rated as having one of the highest satisfaction rates of all autos

__________________

The future chaos is determined by the current chaos, in a chaotic manner.

---

Quote from Sandybestdog:

Well, they came out with a nice lease program on the Volt and I have been long over due for a new car, so I bought a Volt. 16 days so far and no gas. Here's a picture of it.



Let the negative comments begin!

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Why all the Volt bashing? I can see how the oil companies would hate them. I can see how their "think tanks" may put out negative propaganda about them. I can see how gullible righties would suck-up this propaganda and internalize it but..........oh, I just answered the question.

__________________

The future chaos is determined by the current chaos, in a chaotic manner.

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Quote from wilburbear:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...ing_581956.html

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__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Well, they came out with a nice lease program on the Volt and I have been long over due for a new car, so I bought a Volt. 16 days so far and no gas. Here's a picture of it.



Let the negative comments begin!

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Quote from atticus:
Yeah, they won't sell so they're leasing with huge incentives. Lease for $350/month for 3Y which is the same as the Leaf. That's a >$7,500 incentive (MSRP to MSRP). Selling like hotcakes!

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

I hardly consider $2600 in lease money as a huge incentive. What's the difference whether they are purchased or leased? They are all sold. I am not a lease kind of person but it just made sense for me.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

I hardly consider $2600 in lease money as a huge incentive. What's the difference whether they are purchased or leased? They are all sold. I am not a lease kind of person but it just made sense for me.

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Sandybestdog, are you getting a fast charger or sticking with the std 120V one?

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Quote from futurecurrents:

Why all the Volt bashing? I can see how the oil companies would hate them. I can see how their "think tanks" may put out negative propaganda about them. I can see how gullible righties would suck-up this propaganda and internalize it but..........oh, I just answered the question.

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Quote from 377OHMS:
You won't state your commute distance or otherwise respond so I'll assume the car is not meeting your needs and is a piece of shit.

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Quote from 377OHMS:
Congrats. Looks nice.

How far is it from your home to your job?

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Quote from atticus:

You ok? The Volt leases at $350 for 3 years. The deposit is $500 higher than the LEAF, but otherwise it's the same terms. IOW, they've just discounted the car to the MSRP of the LEAF + $500.

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As far as I can tell, Chevy has had the lease option for $350/month since 2010:

http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/15/chevr...lt-lease-terms/
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/27/aut...price/index.htm

I thought you were talking about this new program that offers the same monthly lease cost but with zero down, seems substantially better:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...e-in-california

"According to Chevy salesman and certified Volt specialist Randall Blaum, the company has come out with what it calls the "Quad $0" lease program for the 2012 Volt.

That means no down payment ($0 down), no security deposit ($0 deposit), no payment for the first month of the lease ($0 first payment), and no cash due when the sale is completed ($0 at signing)."

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Quote from GTS:
Sandybestdog, are you getting a fast charger or sticking with the std 120V one?

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Well I do most of my charging at work on the 240V (the dealership I work at has 4 of them). I just pull it upfront a couple hours before we close and let it charge.

SPX called me the other day to see if I wanted to set up a time for them to come out and examine my house to install a 240V. There are some tax credits out there to get it installed. Honestly I can plug it into my bathroom with an extension cord and it charges just fine (about 10 hours). So unless I can get a 240V installed for less than a couple hundred bucks, I don't see the point.

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Quote from GTS:

As far as I can tell, Chevy has had the lease option for $350/month since 2010:

http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/15/chevr...lt-lease-terms/
http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/27/aut...price/index.htm

I thought you were talking about this new program that offers the same monthly lease cost but with zero down, seems substantially better:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...e-in-california

"According to Chevy salesman and certified Volt specialist Randall Blaum, the company has come out with what it calls the "Quad $0" lease program for the 2012 Volt.

That means no down payment ($0 down), no security deposit ($0 deposit), no payment for the first month of the lease ($0 first payment), and no cash due when the sale is completed ($0 at signing)."

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what a joke..propaganda machine at it's best-

GM records its highest profit ever: $7.6 billion

General Motors earned its largest profit ever in 2011, two years after it nearly collapsed into financial ruin.


http://news.yahoo.com/gm-records-hi...-123523501.html

Somebody please work out the payback for the Volt compared to a normal internal combustion car. As for my company we have two employees at my company of 400 staff and they are charged for charging their cars at work otherwise it is a fringe benefit and risks our not for profit tax free status. There is nothing free in this world. Including EV power.

__________________
The trend is your friend.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Well I do most of my charging at work on the 240V (the dealership I work at has 4 of them). I just pull it upfront a couple hours before we close and let it charge.

SPX called me the other day to see if I wanted to set up a time for them to come out and examine my house to install a 240V. There are some tax credits out there to get it installed. Honestly I can plug it into my bathroom with an extension cord and it charges just fine (about 10 hours). So unless I can get a 240V installed for less than a couple hundred bucks, I don't see the point.

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__________________
--

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Quote from Trendytrader:
Somebody please work out the payback for the Volt compared to a normal internal combustion car. As for my company we have two employees at my company of 400 staff and they are charged for charging their cars at work otherwise it is a fringe benefit and risks our not for profit tax free status. There is nothing free in this world. Including EV power.

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what about batteries?(i understand that if you lease-it's probably not your problem). but if you buy?(the question applies to all hybrid owners). how often you have to replace them,cost,what the maintenance is,etc

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Quote from Bob111:

what about batteries?(i understand that if you lease-it's probably not your problem). but if you buy?(the question applies to all hybrid owners). how often you have to replace them,cost,what the maintenance is,etc

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

The stupidity and ignorance that is displayed on ET is exactly why I don't call myself a Republican anymore. Why don't you get your facts straight before you spread your lies? The Chevy dealership that I work at has about an 8 month waiting list on Volt's right now. We are having no probably selling them. Let me repeat, we are having no problem selling the new Chevy Volt at full MSRP.

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Quote from atticus:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/46608011

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__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

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Quote from bwolinsky:
No probably, for sure. Never mind that it lasts for less than the average trip in the US. Anyone finding this made up statistic should publish here, because I'm sure that it is out there.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

We're still having no problem selling Volts. We could sell more if we had more in stock. We are actively buying them from other dealerships. I personally sold 4 last month.

What difference does the "average trip in the US" have on anything? It doesn't need to have the range to cover the "average trip" because you can always use gas if you need to. The new Prius plug-in has a range of less than half of the Volt's range. Does that make it a bad car? Because it doesn't conform to your definition of what a car should be?

By the way, 5 weeks now since I got my Volt, and I haven't used one drop of gas. I gues there will always be haters.

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__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

I gues there will always be haters.

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So I guess sandybestdog is Secretary Chu

I think I remember GM only sold less than 200 cars per month since they started the volt, so there's basically no chance that there's even a wait, and they just stopped making them as of yesterday, it sounds like.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

My local dealer has 18 in stock

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Quote from bwolinsky:
The point of any electric car is to never use gas. It wouldn't go very far on the typical commute before it started to use some.

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Quote from bwolinsky:
I think I remember GM only sold less than 200 cars per month since they started the volt, so there's basically no chance that there's even a wait, and they just stopped making them as of yesterday, it sounds like.

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Quote from atticus:
No, we object to your propaganda that there was a waiting list and other bullshit. They shut down the line. Good story bro.

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Quote from clacy:

We have $15 TRILLION in debt, I don't think we need to be bankrolling crappy cars that can't stand in the market place on their own.

When it becomes economically viable and desirable, the private sector will figure out electric cars, but the US government cannot afford to subsidize GM until that point is reached.

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Quote from clacy:
So I guess sandybestdog is Secretary Chu

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Please point out my propaganda. No seriously, please do. There was a waiting list for over a year. Now there isn't. Supply has caught up to the current demand.

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Quote from atticus:
8 months ago you stated it was an 8 month waiting list... still want to stick to that line of BS? Last to know? Hey Sherlock, they're piling up in the lot, even with the 8k hit to the sticker price. They can give them away on the $0-down lease marked to $33k.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

If the Volt runs on all electric, it costs 4.3 cents per mile to drive ($1.50 a charge/35 miles). A car that gets an average of 28 MPG would cost 12.5 cents per mile ($3.50 a gallon/28 miles). After 100,000 miles, that's a savings of $8200.

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My husband leased a Volt yesterday. He is not allowed to take delivery until the dealer can get a replacement vehicle in the showroom (three weeks at least). Demand outstrips supply here in Canada, he had to watch deliveries on the internet and show up on the dealer's doorstep with chequebook in hand to get it. I've heard elsewhere that the US still has an SUV mentality, and that will change as higher gas prices are sustained. Maybe. Or maybe Canada was just under allocated.

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Quote from Candace:

My husband leased a Volt yesterday. He is not allowed to take delivery until the dealer can get a replacement vehicle in the showroom (three weeks at least). Demand outstrips supply here in Canada, he had to watch deliveries on the internet and show up on the dealer's doorstep with chequebook in hand to get it. I've heard elsewhere that the US still has an SUV mentality, and that will change as higher gas prices are sustained. Maybe. Or maybe Canada was just under allocated.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

There was a several month waiting list 8 months ago. Yes, I'll stick to that. Still want to stick with your line of BS?

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__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

When Volt is discontinued it will cost a fortune to repair.

And your neighbors will laugh at your lemon.

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Quote from wilburbear:
When Volt is discontinued it will cost a fortune to repair.

And your neighbors will laugh at your lemon.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Isn't that what people like you were saying 10 years ago about the Prius? Thanks God everybody else is not so ignorant.

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Quote from 377OHMS:

The Prius?

Great design, superior implementation and outstanding manufacturing coupled with honest marketing and very good safety features. A really great car particularly if you live in the city.

I would have bought one but I commute 56 miles per day on desert roads with no stops and no traffic so a Ford Focus (42 mpg) made more sense.

Nothing wrong with the Prius. There are so many here in southern California that is might be considered to be the State Car.

The Volt had an ingenious concept and innovative design that was ruined by GM in implementation and then poorly manufactured and dishonestly marketed. Its the Edsel of our generation.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Again, I'm still waiting for the design that you wanted them to make. All you have said is what a terrible design it is but haven't pointed out what you would have done differently.

And yes, 10 years ago, the same people critisizing the Prius are the ones now critisizing the Volt. In time, they will also be proven wrong.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

Again, I'm still waiting for the design that you wanted them to make. All you have said is what a terrible design it is but haven't pointed out what you would have done differently.

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who trusts chevy anyway ?

__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

After Record Sales, Chevy Volt Production Will Resume One Week Early

http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.co...uaw-reveals.php

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Quote from GTS:

After Record Sales, Chevy Volt Production Will Resume One Week Early

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__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

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Quote from bone:

1. Selling under 3K units hardly meets GM's original goals.

2. Obama hiked the Federal Subsidy for the Chevy Volt up to $10K. That's right, the American taxpayer is bribing wealthy liberals to buy a car that catches on fire, among other foibles. Some States, like Colorado, have additional subsidies on top of the federal one.

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Quote from bone:

"... Some States, like Colorado, have additional subsidies on top of the federal one.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

When you talk with your clients, do you share similiar inaccurate statements as the ones you make here?

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__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

When you talk with your clients, do you share similiar inaccurate statements as the ones you make here?

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Quote from bone:

Well, one thing I would never do with a client is to make things personal. I would welcome any client criticisms where he stated facts which were contrary to what I knew or believed to be fact.

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Quote from bone:

1. Selling under 3K units hardly meets GM's original goals.

2. Obama hiked the Federal Subsidy for the Chevy Volt up to $10K. That's right, the American taxpayer is bribing wealthy liberals to buy a car that catches on fire, among other foibles. Some States, like Colorado, have additional subsidies on top of the federal one.

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__________________

The future chaos is determined by the current chaos, in a chaotic manner.

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Quote from futurecurrents:

Do you want to give a more accurate description of what you mean by "catching on fire"? Because repeating half-truths is almost like lying.

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__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

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Quote from bone:

Go ahead and Google NHTSA safety test on the Volt - you know, the car whose battery pack caught on fire post crash-test while it was sitting in a government storage facility.

But reinforcing the battery pack and and making a change to the On-Star warning system is supposed to fix it.

Then go ahead and Google the Obama administration coverup and internal whitewash to exponge the NHTSA data.

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__________________

The future chaos is determined by the current chaos, in a chaotic manner.

Re: Chevy Volt a lemon for GM. Current administration makes sour lemonade.

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Quote from wilburbear:

From an email I received -

The Dirty Little Secret Behind The New Chevy Volt:



Patrick Michaels is a senior fellow in Environmental Studies at the Cato Institute and the editor of the forthcoming Climate Coup: Global Warming's Invasion of our Government and our Lives, as well as the author of several other books on global warming.



His Forbes column on the Chevy Volt is a case study in the nexus between big government corruption and big business subsidies. Michaels briefly recaps the consumer fraud in which GM has touted the Volt as an all-electric mass production vehicle on the supposed basis of which its sales receive a $7,500 taxpayer subsidy, and it is still overpriced and unmarketable.



Michaels notes that "sales are anemic: 326 in December, 321 in January, and 281 in February." Do you see a trend here? Michaels adds that GM has announced a production run of 100,000 cars in the first two years, and asks what appears to be a rhetorical question: "Who is going to buy all these cars?"



But wait! Keep hope alive! There is a positive answer to the question. Jeffrey Immelt's GE will buy a boatload of those uneconomic GM cars. Here the case study opens onto the inevitable political angle: Recently, President Obama selected General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt to chair his Economic Advisory Board. GE is also awash in windmills waiting to be subsidized so they can provide unreliable, expensive power. Consequently, and soon after his appointment, Immelt announced that GE will buy 50,000 Volts in the next two years, or half the total produced.



Assuming the corporation qualifies for the same tax credit, we (you and me) just shelled out $375,000,000 to a company to buy cars that no one else wants, so that GM will not tank and produce even more cars that no one wants. And this guy is the chair of Obama's Economic Advisory Board?



Michaels includes this hilarious detail in his case study: In a telling attempt to preserve battery power, the car's heater is exceedingly weak. Consumer Reports tests averaged a paltry 25 miles of electric-only running, in part because it was testing in cold Connecticut. (The GM engineer at the Auto Show said cold weather would have little effect.) It will be interesting to see what the Volt's range is on a hot, traffic-jammed summer day, when the air conditioner will really tax the batteries. When the gas engine came on, Consumer Reports got about 30 miles to the gallon of premium fuel; which, in terms of additional cost of high-test gas, drives the effective mileage closer to 27 mpg. A conventional Honda Accord, which seats 5 (instead of the Volt's 4), gets 34 mpg on the highway, and costs less than half of what CR paid, even with the tax break.



The story of the GM Volt deserves a place in the Harvard Business School curriculum....but of course, it won't. It's a classic tale of the GOVERNMENT deciding what the public needs, not the marketplace. What is one of the reasons for this? Why, to keep the UAW in business of course, because Obama owes them for his election. Starting to make sense yet?

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__________________
simple

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Quote from bone:
Well, one thing I would never do with a client is to make things personal. I would welcome any client criticisms where he stated facts which were contrary to what I knew or believed to be fact.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

I own a Volt and am not wealthy, nor a liberal.

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__________________
wealth effect: stock market higher, health care costs higher, unemployment higher, food/energy prices higher, taxes higher, poverty higher, bonuses higher, foreclosures higher, homelessness higher, crime rate higher, bankruptcies higher, unsold cars higher... it's economics 101

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Quote from denner:
And you work for a GM auto dealer...It's not as if the employees are going to pull into work in a Lexus or BMW.

Just put a disclaimer at the bottom of all your posts that says you work for GM and therefore are going to shill for them any chance you get.

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Quote from Sandybestdog:

I hope you don't treat your clients like that.

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__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com

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Quote from bone:
I know that I am more trustworthy than a car salesman, that's for sure.

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"GM's Volt - The ugly math of low sales, high costs"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012...E88904J20120910

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Nearly two years after the introduction of the path-breaking plug-in hybrid, GM is still losing as much as $49,000 on each Volt it builds, according to estimates provided to Reuters by industry analysts and manufacturing experts.

Cheap Volt lease offers meant to drive more customers to Chevy showrooms this summer may have pushed that loss even higher. There are some Americans paying just $5,050 to drive around for two years in a vehicle that cost as much as $89,000 to produce.

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That article is kind of bullshit. Here is a long thread about it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/business/co..._high_costs_gm/

Here is the complete rebutal of the Reuters article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/boblutz...gms-volt-costs/

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Quote from GTS:
"GM's Volt - The ugly math of low sales, high costs"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012...E88904J20120910
[/B]

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I see used volts selling for high 20's to low 30's already.

I'm curious if anyone knows when the batteries need to be replaced and the cost for that replacement?

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Quote from kipster:

I see used volts selling for high 20's to low 30's already.

I'm curious if anyone knows when the batteries need to be replaced and the cost for that replacement?

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