Forums (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/index.php)
- Trading Software (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=3)
-- An All-new eSignal Launches... (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=213107)
An All-new eSignal Launches...
We are very pleased to announce the launch of the completely new eSignal, version 11.
The new platform has been completely re-engineered from the ground up and is much faster and provides an incredible new GUI. eSignal 11 features match closely with 10.6 and expand well beyond the 10 series platform.
eSignal 11 includes:
__________________
Regards,
Jay F.
eSignal
Thanks for that comparison list. Very informative. I, and I am sure others here, use the broker interface to make one trade a month to take advantage of the exchange fee waiver. Will that work on the initial issue of 11 through the order ticket?
It will work great in eSignal 11... in fact the trading tools are much more advanced than that of 10.6, so I'd encourage you to check it out.
__________________
Regards,
Jay F.
eSignal
Thanks Jay for your update.
I have been using eSignal for ages now, but let me tell you. Since version 8.0, it never mattered what upgrades/improvements you made b/c it crashes all the time. I have 28 charts up and running and nothing more. other features such as T&S, high/lows, etc just crashes the system. So while it's good to hear about these upgrades, how does it serve me? everyone at my work who use esignal do the same thing I do. Thx.
Quote from JayF_eSignal:
It will work great in eSignal 11... in fact the trading tools are much more advanced than that of 10.6, so I'd encourage you to check it out.
Re: An All-new eSignal Launches...
Quote from JayF_eSignal:
comparison matrix provides what is in eSignal 11 and what has not yet been implemented. Please note that eSignal 11 is constantly in development, and this is a snapshot of where the product is as of today.
I am going to say one more thing and then I am done. The new format is wasteful of screen space. I cram a lot of shit onto version 10, and I am guessing I have lost at least 5% of usable screen area in 11.
Are there any traders over at E signal that help to design and develop? I too want less bells and whistles. I want speed and accuracy.
I wasn't done. The debugprintln statement doesn't work correctly.
JayF,
I only use Data Manager for my esignal subscription and my platform setup is tied to Data Manager.
Does esignal 11 uses the same data manager? Would I break my setup upgrading to esignal 11?
Thanks!
The time scale on a one-second chart doesn't show time in seconds, only minutes. How many years did it get 10 to be as good as it is? I'll be dead before 11 is as good. Or using other software that's mature now.
It's best described as,
10.6 to 11 equals XP to Vista.
11 has a lot of great improvments and much potential. The problem now is that it's just too programmerish, rather than
being aimed at the active trader. 'If they did have the active trader 100% in mind, users of every level should be satisfied!!'
And given that they have the expertise to make the best software there is, it's a shame they're not fully using it to make what the active trader wants and needs. In fact, in some cases they are going in the opposite direction. By that I mean what took 2 steps to do in 10.6 now takes 4 steps to do in 11.
However, I do hold out hope that they will sooner rather than later recognize what it's like sitting in our pants and turn 11.xx(Vista) into a Windows 7. I know they can do it!!
An excellent assessment. But clearly the developers do not trade, and therefore have no notion of how we make 10 jump through its own asshole to make it do what we want it to. Case in point. Sometimes I want to drag a window partway off the screen because I don't want to see the price scale. Try that in 11 and fucking scroll bars come up. Not only that, there are several pixels of wasted space in a deadband around the perimeter. Intuitive? Intuitive is what I expect 11 to do based on 10. Where are the fucking compress and expand time scale buttons? Noooooo. You have to drag the scale. Do they think maybe we'd ever want two charts to line up perfectly, and that's why we like the fixed scale compression/expansion? And why can't I now compress the height of a study down to practically nothing? I use a lot of helper studies that don't convey any information other than the color-coded state. I would like to test the new strategy analyzer, but my strategy codes that work fine in 10 produce error messages in 11. This version is meant to be pretty and easy for newbies, not useful to the existing trader base. What I do is not easy. And pretty doesn't make me money. And the arrogance of saying "You will have to completely reconstruct all your windows." I am guessing based on the three windows I tested last night that that will take me about six hours. How about a conversion utility that converts the page descriptor files from 10 to 11? And they have fucked up two statements in efs. How many more will I have to discover in my codes and fix? Good thing they don't design cars. They'd put the accelerator on the left and the brake pedal on the right.
To me, it seems like a step in the right direction. Let me say I haven't used version 11 in my trading environment yet. I just started playing with it today on my laptop. So far I like it.
I'm semi-new to e-signal. I used them many years ago and then left when I opened up an account with Tradestation. I have now closed that account and kept my IB, so I just went back to e-signal a couple of weeks ago. I finally set-up my charts in Version 10 to the way I like 'em (4 monitors). I'm kinda sadened that I have to do it all over again when I just got done with it in 10.
Although it's easier to jump from "page" to "page" due to the new tabs, it's still lacking the ability to open more than one page at a time. To me, this is a huge miss for e-signal 11. When using multiple monitors, it's nice to have one page (or workspace) per monitor. Not have to spread a huge page across 4 monitors (specially if some are vertical and others horizontal or if they have different resolutions). Sure, you can snap the charts out and place them manually, but that's still a pain.
But all is not lost. I actually like the way the charts snap into place. I like the black background instead of white (sure, I know it's all configurable in both versions, but I like how it's preset in black to begin with). I do find it easier to add and remove basic studies.
I haven't gotten to testing any other type of efs other than basic ones and they appear to work well. But I've just dabbled with it for one day. I certainly don't expect it to be perfect right off the bat. I'm sure there will be bugs and wish lists. I'm not getting rid of version 10 anytime soon. I'll just keep messing with it on my laptop.
Having trouble with ESignal's new 11 version
Thanks to all who have posted here regarding the new 11. I was a longtime user of version 10, tried other software, and then just resubscribed yesterday and downloaded 11. I spent a LOT of time yesterday trying to figure it out, configure it the way I wanted it, and then did a lot of trendlines, text boxes, and studies for four different stock symbols. Finally, I re-saved the page carefully, after checking to make sure all of my lines, etc "held" ok. I restarted ESignal early this morning, opened that page - then opened a new page with today's date. DAMN - none of the lines, text boxes, etc show up for the symbols I worked so hard on show up on yesterday's page (all are currently open positions and I will now have to redo everything).
It seems like you can rename the chart that is on the open page - but there is no way to save it to your hard drive, and then retrieve it again. I tried renaming a new chart - and it cannot be found using the search function for my computer. No documentation on their website OR in the post by the ESignal guy here either. In version 10, I always saved each chart for each symbol separately - then I could open them and arrange them and save them as a "Layout." No problems. But they did away with the Layouts and are forcing you to use Pages only. It makes no sense that what you did all day on a Page cannot be found when you restart the program.
I agree with the poster here who said their programmers are not active traders - they have added so much new stuff, made it more complicated than it needs to be for the average trader, and deleted what worked just fine. Unusable as is IMHO. I am going to download the old 10 version and use that for now because I was a previous subscriber, so I cannot get a refund (no 30-day trial period unless you are a new user). If they don't fix the 11 problems (especially the lack of pertinent documentation), then I am going to be an ex-user of ESignal permanently.
I do not ever want to invest so much time in fooling around with learning a totally revamped software product like this. I only wish I had known that version 11 was so brand new (the sales rep said nothing) ... and so very different from version 10 ... before I wasted so much time and energy trying to make it work!
Re: Having trouble with ESignal's new 11 version
Quote from cama:
It seems like you can rename the chart that is on the open page - but there is no way to save it to your hard drive, and then retrieve it again. I tried renaming a new chart - and it cannot be found using the search function for my computer. No documentation on their website OR in the post by the ESignal guy here either. In version 10, I always saved each chart for each symbol separately - then I could open them and arrange them and save them as a "Layout." No problems. But they did away with the Layouts and are forcing you to use Pages only. It makes no sense that what you did all day on a Page cannot be found when you restart the program.
Well, curse me for a fool! I decided to be generous and check out the functionality of 11's backtesting, because it says here
http://www.esignal.com/esignal/eSig...10_6matrix.aspx
that it is implemented. So I took out the offending playsound statements from a working strategy code, loaded it on a chart, per the documentation looked for the button called "Show Strategy Analyzer Report", it's not there, but there is a "Show Back Test Report" button, punched it, and guess what? IT SAYS THERE WERE NO TRADES! Oh, my! Guess my strategies won't work in 11! Why am I not surprised?
E-Signal sells cars:
"Mr. Deco, your new Model 11 is ready for you to drive home!"
"Great! Thanks! I can't wait!....Uhhhh....Where are the tires?"
"You wanted tires? They're not ready yet. We're still designing the rims. But you can have the car towed home and you can admire it sitting on blocks."
chill out
Deco...With all due respect, chill with the language...it is unneccessary and makes you seem immature and unintelligent. We dont need the language, just the facts.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Well, curse me for a fool! I decided to be generous and check out the functionality of 11's backtesting, because it says here
http://www.esignal.com/esignal/eSig...10_6matrix.aspx
that it is implemented. So I took out the offending playsound statements from a working strategy code, loaded it on a chart, per the documentation looked for the button called "Show Strategy Analyzer Report", it's not there, but there is a "Show Back Test Report" button, punched it, and guess what? IT SAYS THERE WERE NO TRADES! Oh, my! Guess my strategies won't work in 11! Why am I not surprised?
E-Signal sells cars:
"Mr. Deco, your new Model 11 is ready for you to drive home!"
"Great! Thanks! I can't wait!....Uhhhh....Where are the tires?"
"You wanted tires? They're not ready yet. We're still designing the rims. But you can have the car towed home and you can admire it sitting on blocks."
__________________
I dont believe in luck, but I do believe in probabilities.
Wow, so much negative response to 11's release.
Maybe I'm wrong but I get the feeling that pressure from upstairs or something forced them to prematurely release the Gold version that is in such an incompleted and unpolished state. It needed one or two more betas and an RC. This seems to have created a very bad first impression to many.
However, if you had been following their remarks throughout the beta phase, you would know that a lot of what you feel is missing in 11 has been mentioned by them to be included in future versions. I look at this release as just another beta that's being called Gold.
They just need more time to put the pieces together, polish it, and most of all make it more user friendly. The programmers just need to switch into 'Trader Mode'!!The demands of the active trader are the highest. When they satisfy him, as I'm sure they can, everyone will be happy, and we'll have the best software around. So given that 11 has such great potential, I'm willing to wait a little longer.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
"You wanted tires? They're not ready yet. We're still designing the rims. But you can have the car towed home and you can admire it sitting on blocks."
Quote from learner2007:
Wow, so much negative response to 11's release.
Maybe I'm wrong but I get the feeling that pressure from upstairs or something forced them to prematurely release the Gold version that is in such an incompleted and unpolished state. It needed one or two more betas and an RC. This seems to have created a very bad first impression to many.
However, if you had been following their remarks throughout the beta phase, you would know that a lot of what you feel is missing in 11 has been mentioned by them to be included in future versions. I look at this release as just another beta that's being called Gold.
They just need more time to put the pieces together, polish it, and most of all make it more user friendly. The programmers just need to switch into 'Trader Mode'!!The demands of the active trader are the highest. When they satisfy him, as I'm sure they can, everyone will be happy, and we'll have the best software around. So given that 11 has such great potential, I'm willing to wait a little longer.
Suppose I want to change chart colors. In 10 I could go to Properties, click on a chart feature, see the standard palette, select "more colors", and get a nice easy to use color spectrum. In 11 I get a color sputum that looks like what I puked up the last time after drinking too much chianti and eating too much pasta fagioli, with pistachio ice cream for dessert. Unusable! How do I find the same color I used the last time? In 10 I count "two right, five down." In this bitch? Try it. "A bit paler than early menstrual spotting, but yellower than dry heave bile."
It might be informative for them if you posted a screenshot of your layout here!!
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Sans doute. "We told the investors we'd introduce it the first of the year, it's version 11, and it's 2011, get it? and so we shall!"
The fact is that it is a disaster that no amount of fixing can fix. It needs to be shitcanned and repaced with a version 12 based on 10. You know what my REAL beef is? You wanna know? Hunh? Yeah? It's that I am such a total dumb fuck that I trusted my system development to their platform. I have ten fucking painful years of system development on it. For EIGHT fucking years I lost money, not the least of which was paying ESignal for the platform. I have been making money for two years now. And they are going to fucking FUCK UP the software I make money with! They have no fucking idea who their trader customer base is, what we want, and what we need. Or they wouldn't have aborted this ugly malformed miscegenated fatherless fetus. All because they want to expand their customer base with shitforbrains noobs who think that Woohoo! features are trading! Trading has nothing fucking to do with pretty formats, or "intuitive" user interface, or brainless usage of the software. Trading is all about making the software jump through its asshole to look the way you want it to to faithfully represent in charting how you think and when to trade. If you could see my screen, you would run screaming. You fucking trade from THAT? You are crazy, man! Making money trading is a stone cold bitch. It requires the sublest of sublety. I cannot see what I trade on a bare chart, it is so suble. So I have coded my sick insane trader brain into 33 efs scripts that make visible to me what I cannot see on a bare chart. My screen is tighter than a fourteen year old's ass. I pack a huge amount of information into it. My rough guess is with this piece of shit 11 I can get maybe 60% of what I have now. I will bet all comers that not a single fucking person involved in the development of this cunt software trades.
You think I am a ranting raving senile old fool? Guilty! If you ever bothered to survey your users, I think you would find a lot of fucking maniacs on the rolls. Why? Because you HAVE to be nutso to think that with $150 a month software and being your own IT/system developer/coder/trader/manager that you can beat the pros trading hung over in your jammies playing with your dick to reduce the stress. Not a pretty picture, no? Well, welcome to retail trading. In ten years, do you think anybody ever fucking asked my opinion? Well, they are getting it now in spades. I cannot wait for the next version to be released. I will be all over it like stink on the shit that it is.
The ravings of a mad man. I like my pussy and my trading screens tight. My point is that 11 is as loose as an old fat grandmother whore: "Go ahead! Don't be shy! Put your whole hand in! Now the other one! Now try to clap! Can't, can you? Tight, ain't it?" Eleven would need a major pussy tightening to look like this. I know. I've tried. I COULD clap my hands.
It seems our man Jay couldn't take the heat, so he got out of the (Elite Trader) kitchen.
I am not picking on him. It takes a lot of talent to manage even a bad software development. Been there myself. You give marketing what they want. I had a mentor once who often opined, "If you want it bad, that's how you'll get it." What gives me a major boner is that I thought I had an implied covenant with ESignal. I'd keep renting their software, and trust that I could safely continually build my capability to trade using it, and they, as they always had, would keep improving it in ways that I as a trader could benefit from. So as always in my life as a consumer, I ask "Who the fuck is the customer here? You? Or me?" My bottom line is that they will eventually kill 10 and leave me to figure out how to work with an inferior replacement. I am such an idiot that I trusted them and have no clue whether or not there is software out there with the capabilities I need. But I will find out. As will other ESignal users. It will no doubt take me tens of hours to assess a replacement. And hundreds of hours to convert about two thousand lines of script. Hence my frothing at the mouth rant. Consider IB's TWS. They continually change the beast, but they boil my frog and do it so slowly that I never get aggravated. Today's TWS still looks and functions a lot like it did ten years ago. And they never did anything that made me scream in rage "Oh, fuck! I don't know how to use this!"
well....I don't like the new version too...
i made 20 charts but after i made it, i realized that you have to click on the fibonacci button everytime if you switch charts, not like the old version that you can just click the fibonacci button and draw fibonacci to all the charts without clicking 20 times the fibonacci button...
its kind of tiring and annoying...specially not good to your hand and wrist...
you can't save the chart template like the old version can. @.@ you actually need to create and resize the chart for all my 20 charts @.@....
if you use more than one moving averages, you acutally need to set all the moving average to all your charts one by one, there was this "apply to all and save as default" button but it doesn't work (try to use more than one moving average with different value, you will know what i am talking about).
I like the looks of the esignal 11, especially the level 2 and trade manager but just i feel too trouble to use it and even hurt your hand/wrist cuz too much repeated buttons or clicks.
and for some reason, i feed the charts become smaller for the esignal 11. I still like the old version better...
Thanks for sharing. If more people piss and moan maybe they'll back up and add the desirable new features to 10 and ditch this bitch. This sorry event exemplifies a new paradigm: software fucktionality.
No userdefined spread manager? Ok, i can enter a spread-formula in a quote-table, thats good. But when i click it to send it to a chained chart, it does not get sent to the chart like a regular symbol. You know, copy&paste spread formulas gets old really quick...
Also, some symbols are just not working. 11 tells me im not entitled to view BBA Libor rates, whereas it works in 10. Wtf? I have an OnDemand subscription, if that matters..
eSignal 11
With eSignal version 11, we view this as a complete re-write of our application and it will take several versions to add all the key functionality from 10.6. We understood this from early in the process and that's one reason there's a completely different file structure with 11 ( i.e. so users could truly run them side-by-side).
We have no near-term plans to end support for ver 10.6 and that is precisely why it's still available on our main download page (towards the bottom). In the past, we only posted the current version but we will continue to post the latest 10.6x version along with the latest 11 update. 10.6 isn't going anywhere and will likely have future maintenance releases if needed.
We posted a fairly high-level matrix comparing 10.6 and 11 but this doesn't address the smaller, more granular features but they are certainly being addressed as well.
http://www.esignal.com/esignal/eSig...10_6matrix.aspx
During our lengthy beta period, we received glowing feedback from quite a few users plus lots of feedback on what's missing from 10.6. Since the two versions can seamlessly be run together, we opted to release 11 while we continued to work on porting the key parts of 10.6 over.
If you're looking for direct answers to your questions about ver 11, please contact our support department directly or post on our forums. Otherwise, please just continue to utilize version 10.6 and stay tuned for future versions of 11.
http://forum.esignal.com/
Thank you.
__________________
Eric O.
eSignal Support
Re: eSignal 11
Quote from eSignal Support:
[BDuring our lengthy beta period, we received glowing feedback from quite a few users plus lots of feedback on what's missing from 10.6.[/B]
Jay, it sounds like your beta testing wasn't actually done if you haven't matched the features of the last version with your new one.
And I'll give you a hint about beta testing - your beta testers probably are hobby traders not pro traders. You'd have a hard time getting a good trader to even answer a feature survey much less be an unpaid beta tester. Yet we are your bread and butter that have been with you year after year. The only time you hear from us is when you break something. It's a tough conundrum and a factor easily underestimated.
So here's a suggestion: pay us for our time and you might get some useful beta testers. Otherwise you will pay in the form of long debug cycles and an enraged customer base when the inevitable screwups happen.
Having said all that I think I'll wait until version 12 gets released before I try version 11 since I get paid to trade, not debug someone else's code. But perhaps I'll consider upgrading to a later release of Version 10 in the meantime.
__________________
"Young girls and gin may be the cure." - The Reverend Horton Heat
To Deco and Scott from ESignal
Thanks, Deco, for your very intelligent rants (IMHO) that address so much of the frustration I believe anyone who really tries to make money is going to have in converting to 11 from 10. And, even though I do not personally use the F word, etc - I appreciate your colorful language because it reflects the depth of the anger some of us have about wasting so much time and energy trying 11 out and then having to go back to 10 in sheer frustration because we cannot trade with it.
And Scott from ESignal, I really do appreciate your attempt to reassure us that 10 is not going away (at least for now) - but I cannot believe that people who are really serious traders could have given you any kind of glowing report about 11. It is just the most glitchy software I have ever used (and I have used a lot). My whole trading system has been developed over 10 years and it depends on being able to draw a whole lot of lines and put in a lot of text boxes, and be able to watch multiple charts at one time - plus be able to save each stock symbol as a separate chart and retrieve it and look at historical data quickly - and rearrange multiple charts so I can see at a glance what I need to look at more closely. With 11, the lines and text boxes only "stick" if I open a whole new page with only one chart for each individual stock and redo all of my studies, then save that page with just that one stock chart on it at a time. Yes, you can cursor over the pages at the bottom of the screen and see a thumbnail. Big whoop. Because I would spending all my time doing this and go nutty with the frustration of it all. It's just totally unusable for me.
You need to come up a way that we can save individual charts and be able to retrieve them, WITH ALL OF OUR WORK INTACT - plus be able to incorporate many of those charts onto ONE page and be able to minimize the nonactive ones, like was easily doable in 10.
That was your promise, remember? You told us you were going to combine the functionality of pages with the functionality of layouts into something like "workspaces" - that page is still on your website, I might add. But no, you totally changed the whole thing. And released what is really LESS than a beta version - without warning us that the whole thing is a scrambled, glitchy, lesser version of what we expected. No amount of damage control on the part of ESignal can erase the loss of trust you have caused with this. We trade to make money, not to fool around. IF we don't make money, we don't subscribe to ESignal. You need to keep that in mind.
Sounds like you're looking for lunch money!
I put in my 2 cents during the beta testing, and I have been living off my trading for over 30 years. If you want to call me a hobby trader go ahead. But I gave my opinions 'for free' as I realize they are designers of trading software and not traders. So if they listen to our wants and needs, they should produce a product that will be of more benefit to us than what they might come up with on their own.
I try to help for free, and I hope you find your lunch money!!
Quote from Shreddog:
Jay, it sounds like your beta testing wasn't actually done if you haven't matched the features of the last version with your new one.
And I'll give you a hint about beta testing - your beta testers probably are hobby traders not pro traders. You'd have a hard time getting a good trader to even answer a feature survey much less be an unpaid beta tester. Yet we are your bread and butter that have been with you year after year. The only time you hear from us is when you break something. It's a tough conundrum and a factor easily underestimated.
So here's a suggestion: pay us for our time and you might get some useful beta testers. Otherwise you will pay in the form of long debug cycles and an enraged customer base when the inevitable screwups happen.
Having said all that I think I'll wait until version 12 gets released before I try version 11 since I get paid to trade, not debug someone else's code. But perhaps I'll consider upgrading to a later release of Version 10 in the meantime.
Quote from learner2007:
...they are designers of trading software and not traders...
Quote from learner2007:
Sounds like you're looking for lunch money!
I put in my 2 cents during the beta testing, and I have been living off my trading for over 30 years. If you want to call me a hobby trader go ahead. But I gave my opinions 'for free' as I realize they are designers of trading software and not traders. So if they listen to our wants and needs, they should produce a product that will be of more benefit to us than what they might come up with on their own.
I try to help for free, and I hope you find your lunch money!!
__________________
"Young girls and gin may be the cure." - The Reverend Horton Heat
Actually there were some bugs that I pointed out that they fixed, and a few of my suggestions were applied. Far from all bugs and suggestions though as I imagine that their early efforts were aimed at data flow and stability of the platform. For the rest of the bugs and suggestions, I am looking forward to the 'real 'Gold!!
Quote from Arthur Deco:
With great effort of will I will resist asking you if you pointed out its flaws and if they paid any attention to you. Rather I will simply say that on those occasions as a "real" trader when I have tried to make helpful suggestions, and on one occasion even point to the solution of a serious flaw, I was greeted with stony silence. I think they don't give a shit about anyone's opinion but those of the third party developers who lure to them more flopping fish. And it is amazing to me, though I believe it to be true, that in fact they AREN'T traders. That's like being a whore who doesn't offer her clients sex.
Generous??? No, not by any means. I'm as selfish as can be. So if anything I, and others, can do to help results in a better product that meets our needs, selfish ol' me is the one who benefits!!
Quote from Shreddog:
You are far more generous with your time than I. Hats off to you. But the status of the "end product" tends to indicate you are an exception. Given how much I've paid Esignal over the years, I'm not too eager to extend them any additional charity.
My criticism was aimed at companies who can't figure out why their beta testing resulted in so many bugs, not pro traders who are charitable with their time.
PS. I love it when people buy me lunch. Buy me lunch some time and I'll tell you why.
Re: To Deco and Scott from ESignal
Quote from cama:
Thanks, Deco, for your very intelligent rants (IMHO) that address so much of the frustration I believe anyone who really tries to make money is going to have in converting to 11 from 10. And, even though I do not personally use the F word, etc - I appreciate your colorful language because it reflects the depth of the anger some of us have about wasting so much time and energy trying 11 out and then having to go back to 10 in sheer frustration because we cannot trade with it.
And Scott from ESignal, I really do appreciate your attempt to reassure us that 10 is not going away (at least for now) - but I cannot believe that people who are really serious traders could have given you any kind of glowing report about 11. It is just the most glitchy software I have ever used (and I have used a lot). My whole trading system has been developed over 10 years and it depends on being able to draw a whole lot of lines and put in a lot of text boxes, and be able to watch multiple charts at one time - plus be able to save each stock symbol as a separate chart and retrieve it and look at historical data quickly - and rearrange multiple charts so I can see at a glance what I need to look at more closely. With 11, the lines and text boxes only "stick" if I open a whole new page with only one chart for each individual stock and redo all of my studies, then save that page with just that one stock chart on it at a time. Yes, you can cursor over the pages at the bottom of the screen and see a thumbnail. Big whoop. Because I would spending all my time doing this and go nutty with the frustration of it all. It's just totally unusable for me.
You need to come up a way that we can save individual charts and be able to retrieve them, WITH ALL OF OUR WORK INTACT - plus be able to incorporate many of those charts onto ONE page and be able to minimize the nonactive ones, like was easily doable in 10.
That was your promise, remember? You told us you were going to combine the functionality of pages with the functionality of layouts into something like "workspaces" - that page is still on your website, I might add. But no, you totally changed the whole thing. And released what is really LESS than a beta version - without warning us that the whole thing is a scrambled, glitchy, lesser version of what we expected. No amount of damage control on the part of ESignal can erase the loss of trust you have caused with this. We trade to make money, not to fool around. IF we don't make money, we don't subscribe to ESignal. You need to keep that in mind.
Quote from learner2007:
Actually there were some bugs that I pointed out that they fixed, and a few of my suggestions were applied. Far from all bugs and suggestions though as I imagine that their early efforts were aimed at data flow and stability of the platform. For the rest of the bugs and suggestions, I am looking forward to the 'real 'Gold!!
In the South we have an expression: "Vote with your feet." What it means is that sometimes you find yourself in an untenable politcal or social climate that you have no hope of changing. So you move. And that is exactly what I am going to do if the current near-flawless functionality and efficiency of 10.6 is lost in 11. Having been immersed in ESignal for so long, I am pleasantly surprised from a quick search to find what appear to be viable, if painful, alternatives.
I'll bet ya a nickel to a dime they'll get it right. After all I guess some of the same guys who built 8 and 10 are still there, so they have the expertise.
Have patience Arthur, the South will rise again!!
Quote from Arthur Deco:
In the South we have an expression: "Vote with your feet." What it means is that sometimes you find yourself in an untenable politcal or social climate that you have no hope of changing. So you move. And that is exactly what I am going to do if the current near-flawless functionality and efficiency of 10.6 is lost in 11. Having been immersed in ESignal for so long, I am pleasantly surprised from a quick search to find what appear to be viable, if painful, alternatives.
Quote from learner2007:
I'll bet ya a nickel to a dime they'll get it right. After all I guess some of the same guys who built 8 and 10 are still there, so they have the expertise.
Have patience Arthur, the South will rise again!!
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Doan haff no dime ter bet. Spint it own ma minnit-ba-minnit intanet assess ta look up Ninjer Trayder. Mighty fine lookin'!
Thanks. I am reading through their manual now. I had no idea that even including data it is cheaper than ES.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Thanks. I am reading through their manual now. I had no idea that even including data it is cheaper than ES.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Thanks. I am reading through their manual now. I had no idea that even including data it is cheaper than ES.
Quote from Samsara:
Yes, that's my main reason for exploring NT, in addition to the depth of the strategy analyzer. I'm not sure how much of a savings it may turn out to be yet, given my data needs, and if you're making money the expense for any of these products is acceptable. But I've been forking over $ to EZSignal out of my profits for years, knowing I can get better value if these are truly monopolistic competitive products. Plus they recently raised prices, and you know they will continue to do so down the road. Better nip the cost inflation in the bud now.
If as you indicate debugprntln and playsound don't even work right in 11, among other things, that doesn't bode well for the rest of my script functionality. Good enough reason to start diversifying.
Knowing C# may be an asset down the road in itself anyway.
Eh, those are my thoughts.
Quote from Traderham:
I highly doubt they'll get rid of version 10 anytime soon. Probably not for years to come. There is no way they would pull such a stupid move.
Quote from learner2007:
I'll bet ya a nickel to a dime they'll get it right. After all I guess some of the same guys who built 8 and 10 are still there, so they have the expertise.
Have patience Arthur, the South will rise again!!
Well, I decided to give it another try. I am dead drunk. If it's intuitive, even a drunk should be able to make it work, right? So I decided to transfer my entire trading screen over from 10.6 to 11. I didn't get very far. I was entering studies onto a chart somewhat randomly from memory, knowing that in 10.6 I can reorder them properly. In 11 you do this with Format Object. Well, guess what? You can move a study down on the chart from where you entered it, but you can't move it up!
This simple code I use in 10.6:
//priceingold last change 11/24/10
var starttime=0;var stoptime=2400;
var gold;
function preMain()
{
setDefaultBarFgColor(Color.black);setComputeOnClose(true);setPlotType(PLOTTYPE_SQUAREWAVE);
}
function main()
{
gold=close()/close("gc #f");
return gold;
}
which prices another instrument in gold, gives an error message. Presumably because it couldn't pull up GC. But it works with euro-the-dollar, 6e #f. It doesn't work with CL, either.
In 11, I cannot squeeze a chart horizontally as small as I can in 10.6. Important for squeezing in small informative charts, like on other instruments than what you trade.
Arthur
Just drag the study up or down while holding down Ctrl.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Well, guess what? You can move a study down on the chart from where you entered it, but you can't move it up!
I wish eSignal would stop introducing all new versions and instead introduce some all new better pricing.
Quote from learner2007:
Arthur
Just drag the study up or down while holding down Ctrl.
Here's another one. Save a page, close the program, reopen it, and the price compressions don't restore the way they were saved.
The attached file is a rough comparison of the way my screen looks in 10.6 (top) vs. in 11 (bottom). The two look different in some respects because the 10.6 represents intraday data and the 11 was loaded on the weekend. It may not look like much difference to you, but to me 11 is wasteful of screen space. Study heights cannot be compressed as much. There is wasted space around the border. You can't pull a pane off to the side without triggering the space-wasting scroll bars. Price scaling doesn't save. Minimized panes take more vertical space. Some EFS statements don't work. Just as a WAG I think I am losing about 10% usable screen area in 11. Can I live with that? I may not, now that my aggravation has motivated me to look at NinjaTrader. I see a REAL backtesting platform there with the ability to automate the backtesting. And the ability to automate trading.
I imagine you click and expand all of those compressed studies in order to read them. If so, you might find the Stacked Studies' feature useful. It's in the 'Chart ' menu. You can have all of your studies tabbed at the bottom of your charts.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
The attached file is a rough comparison of the way my screen looks in 10.6 (top) vs. in 11 (bottom). The two look different in some respects because the 10.6 represents intraday data and the 11 was loaded on the weekend. It may not look like much difference to you, but to me 11 is wasteful of screen space. Study heights cannot be compressed as much. There is wasted space around the border. You can't pull a pane off to the side without triggering the scroll bars. Price scaling doesn't save. Minimized panes take more vertical space. Some EFS statements don't work. Just as a WAG I think I am losing about 10% usable screen area in 11. Can I live with that? If I must. But it's aggravating.
Quote from BSAM:
I wish eSignal would stop introducing all new versions and instead introduce some all new better pricing.
Quote from learner2007:
I imagine you click and expand all of those compressed studies in order to read them. If so, you might find the Stacked Studies' feature useful. It's in the 'Chart ' menu. You can have all of your studies tabbed at the bottom of your charts.
Also, using detached windows and hiding all or some of those title bars will save you a lot of space.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
The attached file is a rough comparison of the way my screen looks in 10.6 (top) vs. in 11 (bottom). The two look different in some respects because the 10.6 represents intraday data and the 11 was loaded on the weekend. It may not look like much difference to you, but to me 11 is wasteful of screen space. Study heights cannot be compressed as much. There is wasted space around the border. You can't pull a pane off to the side without triggering the space-wasting scroll bars. Price scaling doesn't save. Minimized panes take more vertical space. Some EFS statements don't work. Just as a WAG I think I am losing about 10% usable screen area in 11. Can I live with that? I may not, now that my aggravation has motivated me to look at NinjaTrader. I see a REAL backtesting platform there with the ability to automate the backtesting. And the ability to automate trading.
Quote from learner2007:
Also, using detached windows and hiding all or some of those title bars will save you a lot of space.
Click on the box to the left of the X on the chart. A menu will open the will let you set the chart outside of the Main Window.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Yes, thanks. I do hide a title bar on my 10.6, good suggestion. But what is a detached window? Is that like a detached retina?
Quote from learner2007:
Click on the box to the left of the X on the chart. A menu will open the will let you set the chart outside of the Main Window.
Maybe, maybe not. But I'm no spring chicken.
When you test it keep it mind that it is still far from complete. So the chances are you'll find a lot that isn't enabled yet or that isn't polished. I would call it the bare bones version. But I'm sure that once complete you will then rate Ninja Trader as a toy when compared to 11.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Ah, yes, very cleaver, just like in 10.6. I am beginning to get the distinct impression that you are smarter than I am. A common experience for me. Almost everybody is. But don't get cocky. It may just be because you are younger.
OK, I am digging deep for kvetches here. This one is a gnit (that's even smaller than a nit). In 10.6 when I resize the formula output window, the contents wrap. Not so in 11. I have to scroll waaaaaaay over to the right to find out why 11 doesn't handle efs statements from 10.6.
I plan on putting 11 through its paces Montag (that's lundi for you frog Quebecois). I don't trade short days, but neither as rascist white trash can I take off MLK day. So we'll see how well it handles scripts on a one-second chart. I already know it can't handle extended data on the one day.
Quote from learner2007:
Maybe, maybe not. But I'm no spring chicken.
When you test it keep it mind that it is still far from complete. So the chances are you'll find a lot that isn't enabled yet or that isn't polished. I would call it the bare bones version. But I'm sure that once complete you will then rate Ninja Trader as a toy when compared to 11.
In any event I would wait for a few more releases before drawing any concrete conclusions as to its value to you in trading.
Good trading to you.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Thanks again. I plan to run tests on backtest speed, say 600 days of one-minute data. I can't say about the Ninja, but if I understand the current version correctly I can set a BT range, say of stop loss values, and have it run through them all. And I can set a range of stop loss and a range of profit targets, and it will optimize for the best combo-nation using a genetic algoraggem. And it autotrades NOW. If that's a toy, then it's a sex toy. And it will cost me $43 less a month. Of course I am filthy rich from trading, but nonetheless that is a month's subscription to a porno site or two boxes of ammo.
Quote from learner2007:
In any event I would wait for a few more releases before drawing any concrete conclusions as to its value to you in trading.
Good trading to you.
When I was a kid a high school buddy of mine who had a convertible used to cruise with his friends with the top down. If they saw a pretty girl walking, they'd pull up beside her and smile. The driver would say to a passenger, "Don't be a jerk! Say something nice to the girl!" The stock reply was "OK. Hi, cunt!"
So I am going to say some nice things.
The time template in 10.6 was more incomprehensible than my first wife. The template in 11 is like my second wife. A sweetheart.
The time scale compression in 11 allows me to take a one-minute chart over 120 days and compress it to fill the entire screen, which has numbrous advantages in backtesting.
OK. Back to ugly. I ran a backtest in 11 and didn't see anywhere that it allows me to change the default lot size from the 100 it appears to be set at. Please, don't say "Read the manual!" It's supposed to be intuitive!
When I minimize a chart, it snaps to the lower left of the screen. When I try to drag it where I want it, like I can in 10.6, it snaps back.
There is no "Save As option" in the script editor. Another pain in the ass. I don't want to cut and paste an existing script to make a related new script.
When I create a new script and save it, it doesn't automatically resort alphabetically as in 10.6, it goes to the top of the file list and you have to resort.
The settings on the backtest don't stick from one backtest of the same strategy to the next, or from backtesting one strategy to another. Another PIA. I'm done. Not looking at it again until the next release.
"Say something nice to the girl."
"She backtests a 115 line strategy on 120 days of a one-minute chart over two times faster than 10.6."
That's the good news. The bad news is that the answer is wrong.
Here's another good one. You can only backtest a strategy that is loaded onto a chart as a study, unlike 10.6, which will test from a list of all scripts.
Hahahahahahahahaha! I had my full-up system running in 11, all good code that works like a hose in 10.6, waiting for the start of the Sunday evening futures session. It choked, puked and shut down. Reloaded it. Same.
I don't do your type of backtesting and I don't use EFS. But as so many do, this is an important feature and if it worked in 10.6, they will without doubt have it working in 11.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Hahahahahahahahaha! I had my full-up system running in 11, all good code that works like a hose in 10.6, waiting for the start of the Sunday evening futures session. It choked, puked and shut down. Reloaded it. Same.
Quote from learner2007:
I don't do your type of backtesting and I don't use EFS. But as so many do, this is an important feature and if it worked in 10.6, they will without doubt have it working in 11.
One hopes they are aware that they deleted an EFS function from 11: playSound(). It's not in the new function glossary. And, oh, yes, they are continuing to support 10.6? Try to find the reference materials for it. I could only find those for 11. I ran a relatively simple script today on a single one minute chart. It crashes after 30 seconds or so.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Frankly I am surprised that more people aren't commenting here. Maybe there aren't many users on ET who care.
esignal 11 is inferior
I got an email from esignal announcing the launch of ver 11 and it read: "esignal 11 upgrade now available -- completely redesigned for optimized trading"
Redesigned for optimized trading? I'll say "redesigned to kill the technical trader" is more like it. The tools are inferior and the charts aren't as good. What a waste of esignal's resources. Whoever designed the technical tools clearly did not have the technical trader in mind. You don't launch an "upgrade" that really is not.
lots of flaws:
-The candlesticks remain thin when you increase bar spacing.
-Eraser is gone (!!!) It's just really stupid. The developers now expect you to right click on the tool applied to the chart and click "remove/delete"
-They removed the Extended Line tool! Duh! It's a very essential tool to determine if a line touches various points. Sure you can edit the line and check two separate boxes: "extend to the right" and "extend to the left", but that means it's going to be time consuming...again! Just like the eraser tool!
-The Vertical Line is no good. It doesn't snap to the individual candles. It snaps to the space you point your cursor on. It's just horrible.
-I've yet to determine other flaws. I found the abovementioned after testing the product for a few minutes.
The only good thing I can say is that they created tabs for ease moving to different pages.
I suspect Esignal came up with this "upgrade"(...not!) because it's an invitation to trade directly through the charts. More money for them obviously They just missed the mark and did everything without the technical trader in mind. I'm obviously very upset because I rely heavily on the technical tools.
Needless to say if the important tools are not restored or if they get rid of version 10.6, I am going to look for another charting software.
Quote from l0kl1n:
I am not as tied into EFS as you, but I use eSignal every day. 11 is a step back, but I am not taking it very seriously at this point. The only explanation for it is that there was some internal deadline to release and so they released a beta product to satisfy their (new, by the way) management.
I mean, who releases a new version as gold that lacks so many features of the prior version? 11 also crashes on simple pages.
I am just operating under the assumption that 11 is still a beta, irrespective of internal company politics. If they shut down 10.6 and the current version of 11 is all they offer, I'll be gone.
Here is a perfect example of how they took something trivially simple in 10.6 and fucked it up. In 10.6 if I squeeze a chart down as small as it will go, I still see in the title bar the symbol being charted. In 11, all I see is "Chart". I KNOW it's a fucking chart! If I have a whole bunch of teeny tiny charts arrayed together representing my portfolio, I want to know which one is which! They all say "Chart!"
In 10.6, even though I do not subscribe to Comex data, I can still chart GC (gold) end-of-day. When I try that in 11 it says "not entitled!" Ditto for CL (crude).
Arthur
Nothing wrong with keeping the pressure on. But I still think that once they get it all together (and they have to, don't they?) you'll be so excited that you won't need your Viagra any more!!
Good trading.
PS. And speaking of Viagra, never take Viagra and a laxative together. You won't know if you're coming or going!
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Thanks for expressing your concern. Most of the kvetching by users in buried out-of-sight in the ESignal user forum. I intend to keep this issue alive in the broader venue of ET to keep the pressure on.
Yeah, EOD data is not enabled as yet.
Even more desirable would be if they added delayed data for free to Premire subscribers. They mentioned doing just that here on ET when their Delayed product came out. And eS, and even the man himself, said they liked the idea. In fact I even remember them saying they were then working on putting it into 10. Would really make 11 just that much more attractive, wouldn't it?
Quote from Arthur Deco:
In 10.6, even though I do not subscribe to Comex data, I can still chart GC (gold) end-of-day. When I try that in 11 it says "not entitled!" Ditto for CL (crude).
Quote from learner2007:
Arthur
Nothing wrong with keeping the pressure on. But I still think that once they get it all together (and they have to, don't they?) you'll be so excited that you won't need your Viagra any more!!
Good trading.
PS. And speaking of Viagra, never take Viagra and a laxative together. You won't know if you're coming or going!
Quote from learner2007:
Yeah, EOD data is not enabled as yet.
Even more desirable would be if they added delayed data for free to Premire subscribers. They mentioned doing just that here on ET when their Delayed product came out. And eS, and even the man himself, said they liked the idea. In fact I even remember them saying they were then working on putting it into 10. Would really make 11 just that much more attractive, wouldn't it?
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Or as Bill Cosby said, "First you say it, and then you do it."
God, I wish I could get excited about trading again! I never realized how unutterably dull it would be! Not at all what I imagined when I was a wage slave. I see nothing to excite me about 11. My codes are set up to see things that aren't really there. I am going to make a wild-assed guess that the ultimate version of 11 will be so bloated that it will take a Cray for it to run my one-second codes.
On those days when my favorite porn sites aren't updating, I get my jollies going to the gun range. I have three rules. If my system says stand aside, I go shooting. If my stop loss is triggered, I go shooting. If my profit target is hit, I go shooting. I find that an hour a day on the range is extraordinarily calming. A simple achievable objective. Don't shoot anybody, and don't get shot.
Quote from Samsara:
Briefing gave a good heads up on the likely timing of Jobs's announcement. Sometimes the Page 1 has some good insights.
So. I installed 11, thinking that I'd best look it over before spending a considerable amount of time on Ninja just yet. Maybe my current backtesting headaches will be improved by a 64 bit program. I can deal with the chart formatting issues, but now I'm getting "undefined function call" on scripts that worked easily in 10.6. Something as simple as this:
NoDoji = wma(Math.round(Math.sqrt(Length)),efsInternal("RetailDayTraderisaBonehead",Length,sym(Symbol));
Is it due to calling efsInternal as a series parameter of a wma? Something wrong with the function called by efsInternal itself? It's driving me crazy. I used to be able to decode errors in my scripts based on descriptions in the formula output window. Now there's no way to tell what exactly is undefined: function A, function B, or the call itself?
It hasn't even made it to my playsound calls. I can't imagine what else is going to be wrong.
I will likely spend as much time figuring simple flaws like this out as I would learning Ninja's code structure. This first attempt does not bode well.
I'm a big Esig fan. Everybody's got the issues that pertain to whatever things are important to them in the software (EFS coding, etc.).
For me, I've simple needs. What pisses me off is that they could not manage to simply at the least to carry over ability to format quote screens. The ability to color various cells, flash certain cells, etc., is very limited, something that just by itself will keep me in V10.
What I specifically refer to: If you go to quote screen properties then to colors in V10 you see a large array of choices for cell coloring and flashing. They removed nearly all of it in V11. For the life of me I can't understand why if they didn't want to add functionality to this, why they didn't just leave it alone instead of removing the user choice. I know this may not bother many of you, but this small detail is a real hassle for me. I didn't think I was asking much, asking for nothing additional, just not to drop user choice from properties. I had mentioned this multiple times during beta, and following full release.
They probably wrote V11 from scratch instead of bootstrappingt V10 code. Hence missing functionality and lots of bugs.
Quote from USAtrader:
For the life of me I can't understand why if they didn't want to add functionality to this, why they didn't just leave it alone instead of removing the user choice. I know this may not bother many of you, but this small detail is a real hassle for me. I didn't think I was asking much, asking for nothing additional, just not to drop user choice from properties. I had mentioned this multiple times during beta, and following full release.
Quote from USAtrader:
I know this may not bother many of you, but this small detail is a real hassle for me.
Quote from LeeD:
They probably wrote V11 from scratch instead of bootstrappingt V10 code. Hence missing functionality and lots of bugs.
Quote from LeeD:
They probably wrote V11 from scratch instead of bootstrappingt V10 code. Hence missing functionality and lots of bugs.
Quote from USAtrader:
I'm sure that is the case, however you can be certain they reviewed every single feature to see what to program into V11, and decided that this was not worth carrying into 11.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Thank you for the reminder about briefing.com. Haven't been there in a coon's age. I think they pissed me off for some reason. Terrible being old. Can't dismember why. The wife asks "What did you do this morning?" "Damnfino. Obviously I didn't die."
The main reason your simple code mayn't be working in 11 is the symbol call, of course. Calling the internal as a parm, I don't know. Just as a quick check you could hack out your own MA code and try it in that. But there is the larger issue of trying to use al-gore-rithms you find on ET. I have no doubt that NoDoji is round, but does she squirt, much less what her squirt length is? "Retaildaytraderisabonehead" I think probably got assigned the value "null" higher up in the code. Ninja's code structure doesn't look all that bad. I assiduosly (or acidulously) avoided learning C for some reason I can't now remember. So I guess I'll just do it.
The fact that the formula output window doesn't wrap may explain why some efs doesn't work. THEY couldn't figure out what was wrong, either.
Quote from Samsara:
There was not an ounce of that that didn't have me on the floor. Thank you for somehow getting me to laugh while I try to shake off this dread of change that will force me to make a hard decision.
Good call on the sym() -- in transcribing I accidentally left out a variable that evaluates whether it's OHLC4 or close of the symbol. Apparently you can't do that anymore (i.e., assign eval(close) to a variable and have that variable determine the OHLC/open/close of smthg).
I'm finding more errors related to how functions receive and evaluate parameters -- they just don't seem as robust in their handling. This is the last kind of change I would have expected -- I thought all of this was native javascript and the main issues were appearance (just as relevant, but something I can adapt to). Plus it's ridiculous the damn formula output doesn't wrap. Even notepad wraps!
I think my plan of attack will be to take a month and untangle all of these errors and see if my primary script will run, while studying Ninja at the same time. At that point, I'll have a sense of how much of a paradigm shift toward "pretty toy" eSignal has made. They seem to want to price themselves at the institutional level and yet drop functionality to also appeal to the very amateur retail trader. As a former prop trader eSignal-user who's now been retail for a long time, this seems like a great recipe to dump their market share on anyone standing by the road.
Lifetime license for Ninja: $1k. Less than 8 months of eSignal, and that's not even considering data costs.
Someone else who has used ESignal as long as I have remembered that in earlier versions you used to be able to save an individual chart as a file so you could later replicate it. (They also used to have tabbed pages long ago, like ther "new" version.) Anyway, on the theory that 11 may eventually be robust and efficient I started a page with all of my position trades(14) and investments (4) on it, as well as other things like interest rates (3), the indices (4), and oil. That's 27 charts. You get it. I have to create 27 charts. And even though when you create a chart it remembers the time frame of the one you last created, it doesn't remember all of the properties, even those set as defaults in "Format Object.".
Also it is extremely annoying not to be able to maximize/restore or minimize with a single click as in 10.6. Another case where they don't realize how precious a trader's time resources are. What do they think we do all day? Post on ET?
We'd recommend that current subscribers continue to use 10.6 while we continue to port existing functionality over to the 11 series (like style templates, bar replay, etc.).
Thanks.
__________________
Eric O.
eSignal Support
Quote from eSignal Support:
We'd recommend that current subscribers continue to use 10.6 while we continue to port existing functionality over to the 11 series (like style templates, bar replay, etc.).
Thanks.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
You are quite welcome. But while you were laughing I was crying. My vaunted system told me not to short this morning.
Your observation about Notepad wrapping reminded me that in 11 they call Windows Explorer when you want to retrieve or save a script. I like the open/save in 10.6 much better, where it gives you a vertical list to scroll down.
Your analysis of price vice functionality is spot on. Charging too much for too little.
I am sorry you told me you are former prop. My talking to you reminds me of an anecdote about George Gershwin and Maurice Ravel. Gershwin wanted to become a more "serious" composer, so he went to France to ask Ravel to take him on as a student. Ravel was confused because he much admired Gershwin's jazzy compositions, and had experimented with that style himself. Ravel asked Gershwin, "How much money are you making?" When Gershwin told him he reportedly sputtered "You should be teaching me!" So if you want any more advice from me, well, you can afford to pay for it.
Quote from USAtrader:
Quote from LeeD:
They probably wrote V11 from scratch instead of bootstrappingt V10 code. Hence missing functionality and lots of bugs.
I'm sure that is the case, however you can be certain they reviewed every single feature to see what to program into V11, and decided that this was not worth carrying into 11.
Quote from LeeD:
Quote from USAtrader:
[B]
It takes years to iron out the most annoying bugs (such as those that result in crashes) and accumulate nice-to-have features in a complex piece of software. That's the reason a new version is rarely created completely from scratch. Even Microsoft with their mutibillion development budget reportedly uses code from Internet Explore 3 (which is over 15 years old) in their IE8.
Isn't this fun being an alpha tester? I accidentally dragged a chart off of the screen, and it crashed. Also, when both 10.6 and 11 are up, and I open IB's TWS, I get a connection request only for 10.6. So I kill 11 and reopen it. I get a connection request, but no data appears on the charts for my portfolio. That 11/10.6 functionality matrix needs to be redone. The broker may be plugged in, but he got nuthin to say. In all fairness, communicating the position data doesn't always work in 10.6 now. And when I go to use account manager, it says IB isn't connected. Oh! Now I see why. When I go into 11's broker manager, it says IB wouldn't connect me because I am already connected summers else (that would be in 10.6). But I can use 10.6 and 11 side-by-ass for evaluation purposes, yes?
I forgot to mention why their using Windows Explorer to open files is a major PIA: there is no "Most Recent " pane so you can quickly retrieve the one of the seven files you worked on last. Hey, my time is cheap, yes? They don't need to make it easy orr fast for me to use 11. That was an undesirable property of 10.6.
Quote from Samsara:
Same here, no short signal: all but one of my stars aligned. Yes, I agree with the script saving: another bit of basic common sense (yet the need to put an encrypt button there, as if we need to encrypt on every iteration). Not even sure how to adjust my file structure now.
Ah haha, let me disabuse you of your notion of prop trading. The vast majority of prop firms before 2008 were the favelas of the institutional world. A few of the ones that survived have improved operations due to regulatory pressure, but it was definitely an environment where the bandits made off. I was grossing just mid 6 figures and that majority of my profits were gamed out of me by subLLC crooks and interesting accounting by the firm. Imagine profitably trading 200k shares a day paying an average of .01 - .03 a share (base cost < .002), all the while being told to "try a little harder". I've gotten intestinal parasites in SE Asia I liked more than those people. Unless you're doing HFT, retail is ultimately where most people should be at this stage of technology.
Also, my previous conclusion about variable = eval(xyz) was incorrect -- my hypothesis now is that functions don't seem to accept passed arrays as parameters in the same way, as opposed to simple boolean or number values. This is probably not the thread to be pulling my hair out drawing incorrect conclusions, as opposed to eSignal's BB. Nonetheless, this process is frustrating, and I must unburden my bowels somewhere.
OK, here's my alpha test configuration. Twenty-three one day charts, each with a simple 12 line study running. That page representrs how I would like to be able to quickly spot-check my position trades, investments, indices and rates. So far, so good, no crash. But I'm still hoping. I'll gradually add stressors until it crashes like my full-up trading screen does.
Here's a REALLY bizarre one. The output value of a study doesn't show up on the price scale unless you scroll left in time to take the current bar off the chart. I guess I don't need to see both the current price and the current study value at the same time.
It's a good think I'm such a hotshot with efs and always do things right the first time, because there's no syntax check in 11.
And what happened to all the font choices that were in the 10.6 script editor? About half of the choices in 11 are furrin fonts, mostly Asian (ah, so! ESiggle very fine ploglam!) and ALL of them are unreadable. For example, in 10.6 I use bold arial. Not to be found in 11.
Edit: I take that back. I kinda like the font GungSuhChe. I think that translates to "Doesn't fucking work."
No, I am going with MiriamFixed. Sounds kinda kinky. Bold face. Even kinklier.
But FangSong is a close second.
Heaven forfend that we should use Microsoft Office fonts. I think I am getting a hint here of the ethnicity of the programmers. Outsourced, perhaps? Fat lazy Amellican trader not need so many function! Too many function make simple head hurt!
Well I managed to crash it with some modestly complex code which works fine in 11. Upon reloading, I found that the shit-simple code that was open each one of the 23 one-day charts gave an error message. And wouldn't relaod without error. But if I removed them and added them back, they worked!
Here's the page I am using to stress test it. Not all of my functionality, but enough running at one-second to be a decent test.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Here's the page I am using to stress test it. Not all of my functionality, but enough running at one-second to be a decent test.
Quote from Samsara:
I can see what you mean about being cramped for space. Try hiding the title bar on each chart object (top right corner, second from left button -- same as in 10.6)
Also, have you considered grabbing a second monitor?
Well, finally I got drunk enough to figure out at least one reason why the backtesting results are wrong. They're not multiplying the profit in points by the point value in dollars. Maybe the coders don't understand futures. I know I don't.
If a fair amount of alcohol improves your analytic ability, I envy you.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Well, finally I got drunk enough to figure out at least one reason why the backtesting results are wrong. They're not multiplying the profit in points by the point value in dollars.
Respect for being humble!
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Maybe the coders don't understand futures. I know I don't.
Quote from LeeD:
If a fair amount of alcohol improves your analytic ability, I envy you.
Respect for being humble!
P.S. This thread is starting to look like your personal journal. I hope you don't mind my occasional off-topic interventions.
And now it is time to "Say something nice to the girl!" besides "Hi, cunt!"
The attachment is my highly idosyncratically personal perversion of the capabilities of 11. It is an ultra-compressed one-minute chart of 120 days of data. Don't try that at home with 10.6. It reminds me of the dialogue in the beer commercial. A bunch of guys wander into a ladies fine literature reading group, seeing that there are babes there. They mingle and schmooze. One fine babe asks a scruffy sports guy, "Do you like "Little Women?" He replies with total naivete, "I like all kinds of women."
As an unrepetent backtester, I want a chart that lets me see the whole abortive mess at one glance.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Well, finally I got drunk enough to figure out at least one reason why the backtesting results are wrong. They're not multiplying the profit in points by the point value in dollars. Maybe the coders don't understand futures. I know I don't.
__________________
Regards,
Jay F.
eSignal
Although Im not an esignal user its obvious that version 11 was put out too soon, even if its still in beta. This reminds me of companies like Microsoft; when they put out new versions of windows knowing damn well its not even close to being ready for the mass market. Its the old proven gimmick of stretching the truth on the readiness of a new product launch to get the new revenues coming in. Truly bad business model.
Quote from JayF_eSignal:
Right-click in the back-tester and select properties. You should be able to configure the Point Value in that dialog.
Who is the fucking customer here? Who pays YOU? The only reason I am putting up with this shit is that it temporarily amuses me. And I know I have a viabull alternative. Do YOU have a viable alternative to losing me writ large?
I am not quite sure how they make this happen, but the clock in 11 is running about 3 seconds behind the tape. Verified by the IB clock, which is almost always right.
Arthur
My Windows clock, 11, and IB times are right on.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
I am not quite sure how they make this happen, but the clock in 11 is running about 3 seconds behind the tape. Verified by the IB clock, which is almost always right.
Quote from learner2007:
Arthur
My Windows clock, 11, and IB times are right on.
How bizarre! 10.6 and 11 aren't ticking together.
Here is my bottom line. I got my 10.6 trading screen fully replicated and the 10.6 efs files fixed to work in 11 (removed playSound). Everything works and starts up on reload. The time scale adjustments are not restored on reload. And there is something weird going on with autoscaling on one of my charts. And I still hate that I can't squeeze the vertical dimension of a study pane down far enough. And to backtest the strategy needs to be on the chart. Otherwise I am only semi-dissatisfied. We'll see how it does when the data starts screaming in at the open. Also I have a page with 23 daily charts of my portfolio running. THAT is a great feature!
I think I mentioned this before, but it is bizarre that the debugPrintln statement doesn't work correctly: Hello, name my is.
Interesting little gremlin. With both 10.6 and 11 up, I ran a backtest in 10.6 and got an XML error, which I never get unless I have run on the order of 50 tests. I killed 11 and the BT worked.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
How bizarre! 10.6 and 11 aren't ticking together.
Quote from Samsara:
Just a guess, but it could be related to how data manager operation is improved in 11. I believe if you go through this setup there might be an improvement to 10.6's data stream. I wouldn't recommend doing it while the market's open -- I could never get it to work myself, and eSignal wouldn't operate if I ran as admin (my UAC is on). Also, maybe Vista/W7's visual display settings could be set to basic if you have a feeling 10.6 is a little slower. Just throwing ideas out there while sitting in a trade.
On reflection, I think I was a bit uncharitable in my critique of eSignal, because my life basically depends on their product and I've always appreciated how it looks and operates (save when their servers couldn't handle the data back in... 2005 or so) . I don't think I'm as sharp as you though, and I have a feeling you have a symphony going whereas I've got this one fatass on a rickety chair playing a jaw harp, so these micro changes in appearance are more untenable for your well-tuned set. I'll refrain from venting, although I'm committed to learning NT at the same time now.
On a side note, I ALWAYS get XML errors when backtesting. After about 5 runs, the Strategy Analyzer always fails. This is likely due to said 600-line fatass being too much to handle. Plus, recently there have been periods in the backtest where I believe the script stopped running altogether (one bizarre trade spanning 3/20/2010 - 5/21/2010, despite plenty of logic to cover). I'd like to see how it runs in 11, but the core javascript has seriously changed.
The two versions are ticking together to the second and to the tick. The more I use it the more aggravated I get that so many simple things require two clicks in 11 that only took one in 10.6. Cursor on/off, autosizing, data window on/off, etc. 11 desperately needs a toolbar.
I am thinking that if they fix all the shit we've mentioned here that I can live with it, especially if they implement reliable autotrading. Having NT's automated backtesting would be nice, but it might remove some of the insight I gain now doing it the slow way. So code inertia wins. But I'll have to lay in a lifetime supply of barf bags for the puky layout.
Arthur and Samsara:
We appreciate your efforts to try v11. If either of you are interested in testing new versions of 11 before they are made public, please PM me and provide your email address. You both are obviously well-versed in the use of our product and while you may not have time to give feedback nor want to be "beta-testers", we want to at least present the opportunity to do so directly with us.
Thanks.
__________________
Eric O.
eSignal Support
Quote from eSignal Support:
Arthur and Samsara:
We appreciate your efforts to try v11. If either of you are interested in testing new versions of 11 before they are made public, please PM me and provide your email address. You both are obviously well-versed in the use of our product and while you may not have time to give feedback nor want to be "beta-testers", we want to at least present the opportunity to do so directly with us.
Thanks.
Quote from Samsara:
On a side note, I ALWAYS get XML errors when backtesting. After about 5 runs, the Strategy Analyzer always fails. This is likely due to said 600-line fatass being too much to handle. Plus, recently there have been periods in the backtest where I believe the script stopped running altogether (one bizarre trade spanning 3/20/2010 - 5/21/2010, despite plenty of logic to cover). I'd like to see how it runs in 11, but the core javascript has seriously changed.
No direct compensation but for your stand-up skills and product-related feedback, I would be happy to see what I could do for you... you will need to PM me though.
Thanks.
P.S. Anyone considering plastic surgery really ought to check out Ms. Rivers...scared me straight!
__________________
Eric O.
eSignal Support
Quote from eSignal Support:
No direct compensation but for your stand-up skills and product-related feedback, I would be happy to see what I could do for you... you will need to PM me though.
Thanks.
P.S. Anyone considering plastic surgery really ought to check out Ms. Rivers...scared me straight!
Now it's time to bitch again. The data window in 11 doesn't allow you to hide the names of the parameters being shown. Like you can't hide "price" or the study title. On some charts I like to keep the data window up all the time, so that lack of functionality wastes screen space.
Also sometimes when I left click on a study the software doesn't recognize that it's a study and brings up the menu for the chart, not the study. But I must say that the ability to call up the script directly from the chart and to initiate a backtest from the study pane is great. And the fact that the watch list has the time in seconds saves me screen space and computation because in 10.6 I get the seconds from a scrunched down bare one-second chart.
Artie...Would you, by any chance, be a masochist?
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Those of you who, like me, continue to self-flagellate testing 11 will know whereof I speak. They decided to relocate studies to the Documents folder. That would have been OK had they allowed us to access the old location. But noooooo. They have to make it hard. So I duplicated my existing studies folder to the new one in Documents and periodically update Documents as I create new studies in the old location. What lo! When I copy a new study from the old location to the new, the Version 11 function "Insert Study" doesn't recognize it unless I restart the program! How they do this since they apparently use Windows Explorer, I haven't a clue.
Hey arthur, have you tested the CPU efficiency of 10.6 vs 11?
After reading your comments in this thread, I'm too afraid to upgrade but I'd love to know if 11 is actually more efficient at running EFS studies?
I process a lot of tick data in my scripts and it would be nice to know if 11 is actually faster at running code.
cheers,
Runningbear
Jay, as a 10 year user of your product, I'd also love autotrading functionality. By not offering it, you are actually forcing loyal customers to migrate to Ninjatrader.
With 64 bit architecture and autotrading, you've got me as a customer for another ten years.
Runningbear
It seems to lack a lot of the functionality of the previous versions as well as the download is a pain.
I will wait for now.
I can live without the functionailty. i can live with ugly. But I need 64 bit architecture and I need rock solid stable running complex scripts.
Everything else can be added or modified in later versions.
Runningbear
To start with, 64-bit architecture lifts the 2GB limit on the amount of RAM a single application can use. With many modern computers capable of having 24GB of RAM, 2GB is really limiting. With larger amount of memory an application may be able to do in RAM things that with 32-bit architecture necessitate (comparatively very slow) disk IO. For example, backtesting on a few years of tick data etc.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
I am still stuck in the twenteeth century, What is 64 bit archie going to do for us?
64 bit architecture means I can use more than 2 gigs of ram.
Windows 7 and esignal use about 950 megs of RAM. I collect a lot of tick data and generally run out of RAM when esignal has been open for about 5 days. This is really annoying.
When esignal 11 is stable, I can switch and I won't have this problem.
Stable means the ability to run a 1000 line EFS script across five different markets without ever crashing.
Arthur, you collect a lot of tick data, don't your run out of RAM as well?
Runningbear
Esignal was always a mess. I dumped it when... near the end of the last century actually... I just looked at what they had and what they said about it and what they charged and decided that it was unlikely that they would ever do anything stellar... if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and it stinks, it's probably not a duck, it's probably something that stinks...
Over the last two trading days, 10.6 has been freezing for 30 min or more while the market is open. After experimenting with the code of my main strategy, I found a math heavy function that, while really quite useful, I could modify around with a passable reduction in return.
This allowed me to run my strategy in eSignal 11 to bypass the latency issues, which hadn't worked before.
I have to say, eSignal 11 runs completely smoothly in contrast to the problems I just had with 10.6. I've got a duo core 64 bit machine with 6 gigs of RAM. And there actually is a lot I like about the look and feel of the new interface -- a lot of small intuitive things (option to hide all toolbars, sliders for colors, generally more responsive chart objects, tabbed pages) that counterbalance, for me, the collection of weird quirks we already mentioned.
Just running my strategy without freezing is paramount to me. That said, this is just a stop gap measure while I continue trading, as I no longer am confident that the price warrants the features.
Arthur
If I understand you correctly, instead of dragging the x-axis,
drag the left border of the chart. That way you can reduce the
width to about an inch.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
They giveth, and they taketh away. I was thrilled in the initial release that I could perform an extreme compression of the time scale. Now it's gone. Makes my one-second chart useless.
And /or try this:
- Increase/Decrease Bar Width has been added (Shift + Left/Right Arrow)
- Increase/Decrease Bar Spacing has been added (Alt + Left/Right Arrow)
Quote from learner2007:
Arthur
If I understand you correctly, instead of dragging the x-axis,
drag the left border of the chart. That way you can reduce the
width to about an inch.
Until you get what you need, have you ever tried a Range chart using a Line instead of a bar, and setting the interval to 0.001R.
This will plot every trade at every level and is what I use in addition to 1 minute charts when trading futures. This will clearly indentify S/R and you can compress it to the 10-15 minutes you want by adjusting the x-axis and width of the chart.
Quote from Arthur Deco:
Sorry I wasn't clear. I am talking about dragging the time scale for a fixed size window. For example, I run a one-second chart to see precisely what it happening at S/R, but I compress the time scale down to 10-15 minutes.
Quote from Landis82:
I had a horrendous experience with E-Signal about 4-5 years ago in which I spent nearly 20 hours over the course of two weeks trying to HELP THEM TROUBLESHOOT an issue that they never wound-up finding a solution for ( an ES chart would freeze after a few minutes, followed by the SPY chart freezing ). Why they use their customer base (in my opinion) for "glitchy" versions and updates is absolutely beyond me.
Never again.
Never.
__________________
HAVE STOP img src="http://www.enflow.com/p.gif" WILL TRADE
Scott
As a long time user of esignal i've never been as disappointed with ESig service as I am now.
Releasing a version that is not ready for the market and not tested by professional traders (who you may actually have to pay big $ to for testing) are poor biz decisions on Interactive Data's part.
I felt sorry for the service tech on the phone the other day who struggled as much as I did with Version 11. He even admitted that the training they got didn't cover anything that the customers were complaining about. We couldn't even copy and paste a quote page or export to excel. That's the service department. It would be comical if I wasn't paying an ever increasing fee. I've never seen such a mess at Esignal.
Feel free to PM me if there is something you can do for me $$ wise on my bill. I was shocked to see that it went up once again.
Pass these complaints onto department heads etc so they understand how super pissed a lot of customers are.
They need to know business is RUNNING away if they haven't already figured it out.
GM
Quote from eSignal Support:
We'd recommend that current subscribers continue to use 10.6 while we continue to port existing functionality over to the 11 series (like style templates, bar replay, etc.).
Thanks.
As a fellow coder, and you have my sympathies, my boss is an asshole, too, always wanting it done faster. I say "If you want it bad, that's how you'll get it!" But he never listens. Anyway, the fact that your blue sign-on window overlays whatever else is on the screen is highly annoying, especially since your pig takes it's own sweet time oinking. We've got better things to do that watch you brag that you load slowly. Allow the user to minimize it in the next release. See how TWS does it.
Another frustration: any other eSignal 11 users having problems with variables that are passed as series parameters?
For example, I'm trying to adapt a formula where I use the last x days' ATR as a coefficient for something in an intraday script. I do this by calling customATR.efs in efsexternal, passing the required parameters in full. Why do I use customATR? Only way I can define "D" as the desired interval.
I'm discovering a big chunk of the efs code that fails in 11 has to do with something like this, which is native built-in code:
var vSymbol = Symbol+","+Interval;
xATR = atr(Length,sym(vSymbol));
sym("XYZ,D") fails to recognize the interval, yet customATR itself runs fine when not called in efsexternal.
Pretty much all of my formulas that fail to port over fall apart when you pass simple concatenations or other variables as parameters. Haven't been able to dig further to determine if this guess is right or wrong, but it appears to be a consistent problem so far.
Just throwing this hypothesis out there for anyone else running into similar headaches.
I use 11 every day now to get a quick look at my position trades and investments in a 20 chart page. I thought it was robust in this simple application. Haha! I decided to change the look of the candlesticks. So I selected a chart, went to Format Object. Made the change. And selected Apply All. It correctly converted 19 of the charts, but made the candlesticks invisible on the 20th. What on earth are they going to show people in February in New York? A carefully-vetted page example? Better not let anybody touch it!
Esig Version 11 is a product not ready. Its utter garbage.
Too many bugs e.g under chart propertes I can't adjust bar spacing & bar width, freezes on symbol change just says resolving symbol then Invalid symbol etc.....etc............etc...........etc...........etc
If they supporting Version 10.6 its also the day I stop my account.
Quote from Shagi:
Esig Version 11 is a product not ready. Its utter garbage.
If they supporting Version 10.6 its also the day I stop my account.
As a mental health professional, I am not getting something here. All you ESignal bashers are subscribers, right? You hate the service? Yet you pay for it? I think that's called masochism. I know a fab dominatrix who will punish you twice as much for only half the money. But she only works nights. Days she works ESignal customer support.
Quote from Emil Kraepelin:
As a mental health professional, I am not getting something here. All you ESignal bashers are subscribers, right? You hate the service? Yet you pay for it? I think that's called masochism. I know a fab dominatrix who will punish you twice as much for only half the money. But she only works nights. Days she works ESignal customer support.
I'm using 10.6 and haven't even looked at 11 yet. When everyone in this thread stops complaining, I'll take it as a sign that it's stable and I will make the switch.
Runningbear
Quote from Runningbear:
I'm using 10.6 and haven't even looked at 11 yet. When everyone in this thread stops complaining, I'll take it as a sign that it's stable and I will make the switch.
Runningbear
Quote from Shagi:
Esig Version 11 is a product not ready. Its utter garbage.
Too many bugs e.g under chart propertes I can't adjust bar spacing & bar width, freezes on symbol change just says resolving symbol then Invalid symbol etc.....etc............etc...........etc...........etc
If they supporting Version 10.6 its also the day I stop my account.
I've been using esignal since version 8 and it took til version 10.3 before it got really good and really stable. Based on that, Esignal version 13.3 should be a ripper.
Seriously though, I don't use a lot of the features that are missing. I just need it to run my EFSs and be stable. I'll give them another 3 months to get the core of the product right. If they can't get that right in that time then I'll consider switching to ninja.
Runningbear
Isn't this just fucking great? On the ESignal forum a user, who had the same problem I did with playSound() not working, asked:
"On a similar note, I'm trying to find the folder where sound files are kept for the new version."
The question went unanswered for EIGHT fucking days by ESignal until a third party developer replied:
"They can be found here:
C:\Users\_username_\AppData\Roaming\Interactive Data\eSignal\Sounds"
A likely fucking place to hide them!
Well isn't this just fucking brilliant! EVERY .efs script that uses the function playSound() is invalidated in 11 because they changed the function to Alert.playSound()!
Quote from Emil Kraepelin:
Well isn't this just fucking brilliant! EVERY .efs script that uses the function playSound() is invalidated in 11 because they changed the function to Alert.playSound()!
Quote from Runningbear:
Just that does border on moronic.
I have been following this thread and understand that some of you are
struggling with the latest eSignal 11. If you are considering a
replacement most of you might already know that our platform is free
excluding live trading. You can immediately download and use
NinjaTrader through your existing eSignal account. For those of you
who are questioning the price you pay for the eSignal service, I
suggest you look at www.kinetick.com which is free for EOD
data or starting from $50 per month for real time service. I know a
lot of eSignal users have switched since they are able to save a nice
chunk of change on their monthly bill.
__________________
NinjaTrader - A FREE trading platform. Download now!
Kinetick - FREE market data. Get started now!
Facebook Twitter YouTube
Quote from NinjaTrader_Ray:
I have been following this thread and understand that some of you are struggling with the latest eSignal 11. If you are considering a replacement most of you might already know that our platform is free excluding live trading. You can immediately download and use NinjaTrader through your existing eSignal account. For those of you who are questioning the price you pay for the eSignal service, I suggest you look at www.kinetick.com which is free for EOD data or starting from $50 per month for real time service. I know a lot of eSignal users have switched since they are able to save a nice chunk of change on their monthly bill.
Quote from Samsara:
I'm in the slow process of transitioning and appreciate the fact that you guys provide a competitive alternative.
Hey Ray, I downloaded ninja and tried to activate it using my esignal login details but I couldn't create a data connection. What am i doing wrong?
I had the esignal charting app open at the time, does that have to be closed?
Runningbear
you can open both...
you have to go to:
tools>account connections
click "add" and add your esignal and type your user name and password
Quote from killer007:
you can open both...
you have to go to:
tools>account connections
click "add" and add your esignal and type your user name and password
um.... maybe you are connected to the "external data feed"
try go to "file > disconnect"
and disconnect any of the connection first, than go to file > connect
and connect esignal's connection again...
@.@ if still didn't work, maybe have to wait for Ray and see what he say...
to pull out a chart you need to go to
File > New > Chart
and type in a symbol (and you can change the properties in this windows)...for example "BAC" and click "ok"
you will have a chart up...
Quote from Runningbear:
I did that but I still couldn't initiate a data connection. Unless I was connected and I didn't realize it.
Once I've connected, how do I pull up a chart for a particular signal?
Runningbear
__________________
NinjaTrader - A FREE trading platform. Download now!
Kinetick - FREE market data. Get started now!
Facebook Twitter YouTube
A good beta tester is expensive. They can get you suckers to find all the bugs and YOU pay them for the privilege.
smart guys at Esignal
__________________
"Those that know ain't saying, and those saying don't know." - E. A. Neumann
A bear since 1958 and proud of it.
Quote from stock777:
A good beta tester is expensive. They can get you suckers to find all the bugs and YOU pay them for the privilege.
smart guys at Esignal
Quote from Emil Kraepelin:
How is that going, if you don't mind me asking? I plan to step where you step.
Quote from Samsara:
Taking it slowly at this point, just replicating my intraday workspace. On days like Friday I'm out of the market completely based on the first hour's action or so, which is the only time I have to work on other things. I have yet to explore the code environment, looking around in the meantime for indicator code that may have similar chunks to stuff I use now so I can learn by example.
I have a feeling, given the nature of the setup you posted, that migrating will be very challenging for you. Just my opinion, but the time may not be justified unless you have an alternate low stress system (your swing/position trading for instance) that you can afford to experiment with during market hours.
Quote from Emil Kraepelin:
Thanks so very much for your thoughtful advice. I think this is like my first wife. I would be so much better off now if I had just slapped her around a bit and kept her. So I save 50 bucks a month? I value my time based on my former consulting practice at 200 bucks an hour. So I think I'll just keep ESignal and slap the bitch around.
Quote from Samsara:
By all means, slap the bitch around if you can. eSignal ultimately turns out to be a solid product.
I view it as an investment, and a lifetime NT license is what you'd pay for 10 months of eSignal. I've been using eSignal since... 2003 I think, with a set of exchange add-ons, always feeling that while I loved aspects of its charting I was getting a little fleeced.
Kinetick might cost the same in the end as I still need the Chicago exchanges, put/call data, exchange internals, breadth indices. Regardless, having to rewrite my scripts anyway and seeing how they're breaking now, it's convinced me I need to diversify.
Earlier this month EasySignal said that 11.1 would be released in late February, which is in a few short days. Today they wrote "11.1 will be available to the public in a few short weeks."
Quote from Emil Kraepelin:
Earlier this month EasySignal said that 11.1 would be released in late February, which is in a few short days. Today they wrote "11.1 will be available to the public in a few short weeks."
Quote from Runningbear:
If Esignal works off short weeks, maybe their weeks only have 2 days in them instead on 7 like our normal weeks.
Maybe you could fix this PRONTO for starters:
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/int...ndorSymbols.pdf
This has been disabled since November, and myself and over fifty of my clients are a bit disheartened. We made the migration over from CQG in February of 2010, and lately I am having some second thoughts about eSignal's ability to work with custom user-defined intercommodity synthetic spread combinations.
I spoke with Randy over at Technical Support this afternoon about it, so please follow up with him and let's get this resolved.
It seems that anything other than plain vanilla missionary position single symbol charting is a struggle with eSignal.
__________________
Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader. The only thing that matters are Clients making money IN LIVE MARKETS. Why not interview my clients for yourself on an independent basis. My typical client is an outright directional trader looking to pick up an industry-recognized specialty technique. http://www.spreadprofessor.com
What spec PC do you use for esignal 11.3? I have a core duo 3.06 mhz and 4gb ram and it is a bit slow with tws and multicharts running as well. How much memnory do you need to get this running smoothly?
Version 11 is not ready for prime time. I have a 2GHz core-duo with 4GB that version 10 runs well on with TWS and two Explorers up. I have about 1600 SLOCs of code running on two symbols on one minute and one second charts, and the throughput chokes on a REALLY fast opening market for a few seconds. Otherwise it typically uses only about 30-40% of the throughput. Stay away from 11 for now (maybe years). But 10 is primo.
This is by far the worst piece of software I have seen in a long time. (BTW, I have over 20 years software development experience specializing in database internals.)
With esig 10 I have 4 open windows. My main complaint is that it takes a long time to load tick based charts and is limited in memory that it can use, i.e. number of bars that can be displayed.
esig 11 has improved the data loading, but that is about it. I have 1 of my 4 windows implented in 11. The efs studies I developed are without the trading dll I implented. Further, they are all designed to return null after the initial load. There are 2 es range charts, a 5 minute chart, and an add chart. Even with everything totally dumbed down, 11 regularly runs full cpu load and consumes all available memory (3.1 ghz, 16 mb). Further, it regularly crashes windows 7 once all the memory is consumed, the only program I know of that does that.
You need to think of this like esig 1, it will probably need several major versions before it is really usable, at least for trading active markets like the es.
I can use it on weekends and evenings to study historical range charts. The amount of data it actually loads seems a bit random as to where it cuts out, but my time template is set to 365 days and I have gotten as far back as sept. 2011.
Another problem is that some of the built in studies are inaccurate, so the efs results are not consistent with esig 10. This may be because the default parameters are different, I'll have to look into that more.
__________________
fka SPTrader (1987-1990)
I'm hoping version 11.6 will work smoothly. It should be out early 2013 according to the last word I received.
I liked the speed of Qcharts when it came to loading three linked charts. ES takes a couple seconds longer.
V11 is to V10 as a handjob is to real sex.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
V11 is to V10 as a handjob is to real sex.
I only demoed esignal. The interface from the old one to the new one was night and day, but for a company as large as interactive data, I expected a better platform. It just felt like a basic platform you'd get from Charles Schwab, and it looked like streetsmart edge. Ninjatrader, Multicharts are a much smaller companies and they put up decent products.
I'm still using esignal 10.6 and it's pretty solid. I run it for a month at a time 24/7 without rebooting.
I don't think I would upgrade to 11 unless they offered automated trading which could be 10 years away.
Runningbear
I wish there was a way I could get 10.6
I had 11.4 but deleted it after getting 11.5
Quote from Jeffrey:
I wish there was a way I could get 10.6
I had 11.4 but deleted it after getting 11.5
http://www.esignal.com/trading-soft...wnload.aspx?tc=
You can download it here. Check the link at the bottom of the page.
Bitches! The beginning of the end of 10.6!
Quote from Runningbear:
http://www.esignal.com/trading-soft...wnload.aspx?tc=
You can download it here. Check the link at the bottom of the page.
Quote from Joe Doaks:
Bitches! The beginning of the end of 10.6!
They just released an Service Pack 1 last night.
It can be downloaded now. Dated Dec. 4, 2012
Hope this works!
So what is the verdict?
Is the new ES version worth a subscription? I was kinda thinking of the advanced get edition but i am current having second thoughts?
Any recommendations by the avid ES users would be appreciated.
Anyone know if there's a way to stop eSignal from filling half the chart with blank space when jumping to the current date from another chart series?
This is driving me absolutely crazy. It may make sense on intraday charts for drawing trendlines or what not, but there's no reason for half of a monthly chart series to be blank space.
Quote from Samsara:
Anyone know if there's a way to stop eSignal from filling half the chart with blank space when jumping to the current date from another chart series?
This is driving me absolutely crazy. It may make sense on intraday charts for drawing trendlines or what not, but there's no reason for half of a monthly chart series to be blank space.
Quote from learner2007:
If I understand what your're saying, it sounds as though you have the 'Lock Scale' enabled in the x-axis. It's the icon to the right of Dyn.
Quote from CodeX:
So what is the verdict?
Is the new ES version worth a subscription? I was kinda thinking of the advanced get edition but i am current having second thoughts?
Any recommendations by the avid ES users would be appreciated.
E-Signal major weakness
The one major weakness that has always put some system developers off of E-Signal is that there is no significant amount of historical tick data available for any symbol.
Many work from volume charts and other data formats that are based on tick data and not only require months/years of tick data but require it in continuous format for futures.
Hard to believe a front line data vendor to be so lame is this so important area.
Jack
I am doing well with it. There is a couple things that will get fixed, but they're minor, and it's better this month.
Quote from learner2007:
Or, you might have the 'Right Margin' set to a large number of bars. Chart Properties > Scales > Right Margin.
Quote from Samsara:
Thank you learner2007 for giving it a shot -- appreciate it. Unfortunately I think it's built in.
Try this: if you have two charts linked, one monthly, one daily. Click on a bar in the daily chart that's earlier than anything displayed on the monthly. The monthly chart jumps there (if you have the setting enabled), which is great. Now click on today's bar in the daily chart. The monthly chart jumps there also, but then adds half a window of useless blank padding.
I've given up on one or two problems with the efs coding a while ago, but this one seems endemic to the charting itself and drives me crazy every day. Only way to avoid it is to shut off the ability to jump to dates from other charts.
Quote from learner2007:
Sorry, but I could not have understood from your original post that you were having this problem under the conditions you detailed in this post.
If you feel that this is a bug or would like to have a change in the function, you might want to use the Report a Bug or Request a Feature form under Support. They're quite good in replying to these.
Quote from Samsara:
Now click on today's bar in the daily chart. The monthly chart jumps there also, but then adds half a window of useless blank padding.
[/B]
Quote from learner2007:
Rather than clicking on today's bar in the daily chart, if you click on the white arrow in the corner of the y and x-axis on the monthly chart, there will be no blank space between this month's bar and the y-axis.
Quote from Jeffrey:
I'm hoping version 11.6 will work smoothly. It should be out early 2013 according to the last word I received.
I liked the speed of Qcharts when it came to loading three linked charts. ES takes a couple seconds longer.
Installed 11.5 yesterday and played around a bit (I were using 10.6 until now)
After major disappointment with the first eSignal 11 versions, it seems to be finally ready for prime time.
Importing of old 10.6 pages works quite good, of course with some limitations. My existing EFS seem to work without problems also. Speed is fine, and there are now some additional useful settings, for instance to display a more compact version of the cursor window and so on (at least as far as I remember there was no such option in the early versions). It also "feels" pretty stable and smooth, at least for now.
Will give it a try next week, of course on a slow day first.
Kudos to the eSignal team, they are hopefully now on the right track.
There is only one thing which I find quite annoying: When 'compressing' the time scale of bar charts, eSignal then displays High-Low bars instead of OHLC bars . Would be nice to have a setting to suppress this. While compressed charts with full OHLC bars may look quite messy, I'm more comfortable with them.
For system developers, one big problem w/E Signal is that they don't offer a meaningful amount of tick data in continuous format or any other.
Many traders use range, volume or tick bars in their systems and these must be build from tick data and while Trade Station offers six months of historical tick data I don't know of any vendor that offers a year of tick data and the little bit offered by E Signal is useless for systems development.
Jack
Playing around a little bit more today...
What sucks big time: In 10.6, it was possible to display EOD daily charts of non-subscribed symbols. In 11.5, this is no longer works. All one gets is the message "not entitled" on top of the chart.
There are symbols out there for which I don't need realtime or intraday data, but occassionally want to take a look at EOD charts. The US Dollar Index or GC gold futures, for example.
This is bad. EOD data is everywhere else available for free. In eSignal 11.5, not anymore. WTF? eSignal, do you really want to anger your long-term customers with such stupid issues?
Quote from sculptor66:
Playing around a little bit more today...
What sucks big time: In 10.6, it was possible to display EOD daily charts of non-subscribed symbols. In 11.5, this is no longer works. All one gets is the message "not entitled" on top of the chart.
There are symbols out there for which I don't need realtime or intraday data, but occassionally want to take a look at EOD charts. The US Dollar Index or GC gold futures, for example.
This is bad. EOD data is everywhere else available for free. In eSignal 11.5, not anymore. WTF? eSignal, do you really want to anger your long-term customers with such stupid issues?
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:08 PM.