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Posted by crgarcia on 03-03-10 08:08 PM:

Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

University professors are sometimes asked by their students, "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?"
The question usually rankles professors, who think of themselves as passing up worldly riches to engage in such an obviously socially useful occupation as teaching. The same question might more appropriately be addressed to technicians.

For, after all, the whole point of technical analysis is to make money, and one would reasonably expect that those who preach it should practice it successfully in their own investments.

On close examination, technicians are often seen with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars. I, personally, have never known a successful technician, but I have seen the wrecks of several unsuccessful ones. (This is, of course, in terms of following their own technical advice. Commissions from urging customers to act on their recommendations are very lucrative.)

Curiously, however, the broke technician is never apologetic. If you commit the social error of asking him why he is broke, he will tell you quite ingenuously that he made the all-too-human error of not believing his own charts.
To my great embarrassment, I once choked conspicuously at the dinner table of a chartist friend of mine when he made such a comment. I have since made it a rule never to eat with a chartist. It's bad for digestion.

Burton G. Malkiel
A random walk down Wall Street

__________________
I ♥ TO SWING - trade!

Posted by Fireplace on 03-03-10 08:10 PM:

a random walk down wall street = too lazy or too stupid to figure the game out (or enough of it to make consistent monies)

Posted by ess1096 on 03-03-10 08:18 PM:

__________________
...........................................................

http://www.hellnobama.com/quotes.html

Posted by wrbtrader on 03-03-10 10:50 PM:

Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Burton is known to fabricate stories to sell his thoughts.

Think about it, why would he be hanging out on his own personal time with dinner pals that he has stereotyped as being broke, shoes with holes along with frayed shirt collars.

By the way, I've never asked anyone of my professors at college why they aren't rich nor have any of my friends or classmates. I always assumed they made a good living at teaching and it was something they enjoyed doing especially after all that education (undergraduate and post-graduate) of many years (8 - 15 years worth) just to be a college professor.

Seriously, anyone that has ever gone to college knows that most professors actually still work in their profession via research, consultation and application field work. Therefore, it's safe to assume he has fabricated other things and I'm willing to bet his dinner pals payed for his meals.

Mark

Posted by lukestockwalker on 03-03-10 10:59 PM:

Regardless of Burton, its very very true MOST TA practioners are dead broke. While arbers and tapereaders seem to be doing much better than the chart artists.

In adddition, why isnt TA taught much in prop trading courses like Bright? every think cause it does not work?

Facts speak for themselves

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-03-10 11:46 PM:

Quote from lukestockwalker:

Regardless of Burton, its very very true MOST TA practioners are dead broke. While arbers and tapereaders seem to be doing much better than the chart artists.

In adddition, why isnt TA taught much in prop trading courses like Bright? every think cause it does not work?

Facts speak for themselves

Hey, nice to see you back again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . .

95% of ALL traders fail.
Some traders use Technical Analysis exclusively.
Some traders use Fundamental Analysis exclusively.
Some traders use a mix of both.
According to the MTA the mix is pretty evenly spread for stocks and tipped a little more toward TA for futures, commodities and options, yet 95% fail.
Seems the common factor here is 95% of traders can't use anything to be consistently profitable not just TA.

Ah regarding Bright . . . now being the good firm they are, if they were such a beacon of light in the industry then ALL of their traders would consistently fall into the 5% category and every trader in the world would be breaking Bright's doors down to have them train them. Sorry to say that neither one of those scenarios are the case.

Yes, the FACTS do speak for themselves.

__________________
The Market is constant chaos and randomness . . . but if you find what is perfectly consistent in that chaos . . . and then trade it, trusting only yourself and what you SEE, the cloudiness the randomness causes will subside. . . . Wm Schamp (Me)

"Not everything that can be counted counts. Not everything that counts can be counted" . . . Albert Einstein

Dilute simplicity and it becomes complex. . . . me again

"I never saw an instance of one of two disputants convincing the other by argument." - Thomas Jefferson

Posted by wrbtrader on 03-04-10 12:39 AM:

Quote from lukestockwalker:

Regardless of Burton, its very very true MOST TA practioners are dead broke. While arbers and tapereaders seem to be doing much better than the chart artists.

In adddition, why isnt TA taught much in prop trading courses like Bright? every think cause it does not work?

Facts speak for themselves

Bright traders use charts and so do many other prop firm traders, institutional traders et cetera.

However, I do agree with you that arbers do better than those that aren't arbers. Yet, the few arbers I know do use charts too regardless if the charts are important or not. Fact remain, they have charts up on their monitor screens.

could it just be screensavers?

Yep, I know the debate, just because someone uses charts doesn't imply there trade decisions is based upon what they see on their charts. If that's the case...get rid of the charts and never look at another one again (seriously).

Here's some facts I've seen here at ET...carefully review the post history of many of those here at ET that speaks out against TA and you'll see they've posted charts themselves to explain some of their trades or they've discussed in agreement with the chart analysis of another ET member or used linear charts of something they've downloaded or linked to that shows months or years of economic data as they use that info to explain the reasons behind their trade positions.

Why not just show the actual price data without the charts?

I said in another thread...recently I went to visit a friend at his trading office (institutional firm) and he had always stated he doesn't use TA. Yet, on his two bloomberg screens were charts of yields and treasury futures.

It's so confusing.

Mark

Posted by circadian on 03-04-10 06:20 AM:

Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from crgarcia:

University professors are sometimes asked by their students, "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?"
The question usually rankles professors, who think of themselves as passing up worldly riches to engage in such an obviously socially useful occupation as teaching. The same question might more appropriately be addressed to technicians.

For, after all, the whole point of technical analysis is to make money, and one would reasonably expect that those who preach it should practice it successfully in their own investments.

On close examination, technicians are often seen with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars. I, personally, have never known a successful technician, but I have seen the wrecks of several unsuccessful ones. (This is, of course, in terms of following their own technical advice. Commissions from urging customers to act on their recommendations are very lucrative.)

Curiously, however, the broke technician is never apologetic. If you commit the social error of asking him why he is broke, he will tell you quite ingenuously that he made the all-too-human error of not believing his own charts.
To my great embarrassment, I once choked conspicuously at the dinner table of a chartist friend of mine when he made such a comment. I have since made it a rule never to eat with a chartist. It's bad for digestion.

Burton G. Malkiel
A random walk down Wall Street

Random markets are a myth. EMH is a myth, and I'm glad it's still taught to finance students, as they'll eventually prove to be cannon fodder for those who know better. Malkiel pulled an Al Gore, and cashed in on bullshit idea that has been horrendously disproven.

SPY Equity KAOS Go : An ongoing bitchslap to EMH theory, delivered in real-time...SLAP!!

Posted by EpiphanyBlack on 03-04-10 10:21 PM:

Lukestockwalker= Moron

Posted by jem on 03-04-10 10:39 PM:

I would suggest that you all try talking to fund managers at hedge funds.

Ask them how they support stock going into the end of the reporting quarter and what techiniques they use. Ask them how they gun the leaders to make their numbers look even better.
Ask them if they support stock at sell offs and where they buyer more.

Ask them how the go about maintenance trading in the summer time.

And why this no longer applies as much.

Ask an NYSE floor broker what happens when there is more than one buyer around the specialist.

Ask if there were step up buyers. Ask about how the specialist would split the order up into double prints.

Ask if they ever got orders to by 10,000 at every round figure.

Ask the if the specialists liked to race to the round figures to do business because there would be larger orders there.

Only true fools say that technical analysis does not work.
It definitely works some of the time.
You have to know when.

Posted by greencapital on 03-04-10 11:12 PM:

Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from circadian:

Random markets are a myth. EMH is a myth, and I'm glad it's still taught to finance students, as they'll eventually prove to be cannon fodder for those who know better. Malkiel pulled an Al Gore, and cashed in on bullshit idea that has been horrendously disproven.

SPY Equity KAOS Go : An ongoing bitchslap to EMH theory, delivered in real-time...SLAP!!

Totally wrong and bordering on ignorance.

Show me the horrendous disproven--- since if you can, why can't you corner the market? ra ra ra

Posted by greencapital on 03-04-10 11:14 PM:

Quote from wrbtrader:

Bright traders use charts and so do many other prop firm traders, institutional traders et cetera.

However, I do agree with you that arbers do better than those that aren't arbers. Yet, the few arbers I know do use charts too regardless if the charts are important or not. Fact remain, they have charts up on their monitor screens.

could it just be screensavers?

Yep, I know the debate, just because someone uses charts doesn't imply there trade decisions is based upon what they see on their charts. If that's the case...get rid of the charts and never look at another one again (seriously).

Here's some facts I've seen here at ET...carefully review the post history of many of those here at ET that speaks out against TA and you'll see they've posted charts themselves to explain some of their trades or they've discussed in agreement with the chart analysis of another ET member or used linear charts of something they've downloaded or linked to that shows months or years of economic data as they use that info to explain the reasons behind their trade positions.

Why not just show the actual price data without the charts?

I said in another thread...recently I went to visit a friend at his trading office (institutional firm) and he had always stated he doesn't use TA. Yet, on his two bloomberg screens were charts of yields and treasury futures.

It's so confusing.

Mark

Truth is, TA is relegated to the marketing departments in institutions, not trading. they have cause the clients like it and to illusitrate points to the clients--- no other reason,

Actually its very simple--- charts are illusitrative not predictive.

they are used to illusitrate concepts not make predictions about the future.

traders only use charts to analyse not to make buy sell decisions.

Posted by Fireplace on 03-04-10 11:35 PM:

If you look at a chart, any chart, and make a trading decision, you've used TA. Maybe it's not 'traditional' TA but analysis was used nonetheless. And it wasn't fundamental.

Posted by wrbtrader on 03-05-10 02:12 AM:

Quote from greencapital:

...charts are illusitrative not predictive.

they are used to illusitrate concepts not make predictions about the future.

traders only use charts to analyse not to make buy sell decisions.

Basically you're saying that "chart analysis" doesn't equate to "technical analysis". Thus, when someone saids they don't use TA but use charts for analysis or illustration purposes...you want me to believe that a chartist is not using the information to help with making trade decisions.

That's an interesting opinion you have and it's similar to what I've stated a few times recently...I've met a lot of TA bashers that use charts to monitor their trade positions or to give a visual representation of their trade decision.

Therefore, if a chartist believes their trade decisions has nothing to do with what they see on their charts. If that's true, they should be able to make the same trade decisions without looking at a single chart to convince someone they are not using TA.

In contrast, the thread starter (crgarcia) implies a chartist and TA person are the same via referencing the words of an author that believes the same.

Mark

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-05-10 03:13 AM:

Quote from greencapital:

Truth is, TA is relegated to the marketing departments in institutions, not trading. they have cause the clients like it and to illusitrate points to the clients--- no other reason,
Actually its very simple--- charts are illusitrative not predictive.
they are used to illusitrate concepts not make predictions about the future.
traders only use charts to analyse not to make buy sell decisions.

Cannon fodder was a perfect choice of terms.

I recently went to an economics conference with a friend and sat in the back of the room with my computer watching the markets. A gentleman from a rather prestigious university wondered by and was watching me for a few minutes and asked about my charts. I gave him a brief description of what I do and he laughed and basically told me exactly what you just said. I then bet him a cup of coffee that I could tell him exactly what oscillations would occur and at what approximate levels on my chart in advance. I would tell him in advance where price would go up then down then back up . . . in the future. Not the prices at those oscillations but where resistance and support would take place on my chart. He took the bet and came by at 2 pm Arizona time as the market was closing. He looked at my charts and what price had done and where the oscillations had been created.

Needless to say I enjoyed a wonderful triple venti vanilla skinny latte and an hour of grilling conversation from an interesting and bewildered Ivy league professor.
Seeing is believing.
The right chart environment can be predictive if constructed correctly.
A closed mind is a terrible thing to waste.

I know . . . I'm crazy, there is no way on earth it is possible and you wouldn't waste your precious time validating such a ridiculous notion . . .

Cannon fodder . . . I love that.

Posted by crgarcia on 03-08-10 05:58 PM:

Quote from jem:

I would suggest that you all try talking to fund managers at hedge funds.

Ask them how they support stock going into the end of the reporting quarter and what techiniques they use. Ask them how they gun the leaders to make their numbers look even better.
Ask them if they support stock at sell offs and where they buyer more.

MOST hedge funds lose money.
Usually all the small funds, managing about $5-$10M blowup in less than 5 years.

Quote from lukestockwalker:

Regardless of Burton, its very very true MOST TA practioners are dead broke. While arbers and tapereaders seem to be doing much better than the chart artists.

In adddition, why isnt TA taught much in prop trading courses like Bright? every think cause it does not work?

Facts speak for themselves

So true.
99%+ use TA
99%+ lose money

Too much correlation to be coincidence.

__________________
I ♥ TO SWING - trade!

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 06:02 PM:

Prove these stats please

Quote from crgarcia:

So true.
99%+ use TA
99%+ lose money

Too much correlation to be coincidence.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-08-10 06:25 PM:

Quote from garyjohn:

Who is this person? I would like to send him an email for verification.
Some more "anecdotal" evidence from the good professor.
The TA world is full of anecdotal evidence, little more.
TA is EASY and people tend to be attracted to easy when it comes to making money or anything for that matter.
Once again, the professor will fail to produce any evidence what so ever of his "perfect TA" system working
Only small minds have a requirement for order such as what the Prof and TA cultist demand. Randomness is a much finer operative paradigm. "There is no geometric interpretation of a chart that will withstand scrutiny"
TA is HOG WASH, pure and simple.
leave it to the Gurus and their followers. If you want to succeed in trading , embrace chaos not geometric nonsense and chart art from failed traders.

Hey, nice to see you back again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . Davey Boy.

As I stated . . . I'm crazy, there is no way on earth it is possible and you wouldn't waste your precious time validating such a ridiculous notion . . . unless you have a large chunk of money you would like to part with to validate it.

WOOhoo

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-08-10 06:42 PM:

Quote from garyjohn:

Only small minds have a requirement for order such as what the Prof and TA cultist demand.
Randomness is a much finer operative paradigm.
"There is no geometric interpretation of a chart that will withstand scrutiny"
TA is HOG WASH, pure and simple.
leave it to the Gurus and their followers.
If you want to succeed in trading , embrace chaos not geometric nonsense and chart art from failed traders no matter their rhetoric or anecdotal evidence.

As always this statement scared the $hit out of you:

"unless you have a large chunk of money you would like to part with to validate it."

If TA is HOG WASH it should be "easy pickins" to fleece me out of my money proving that my stuff is crap. But you always tuck your tail and run when confronted. You try to talk a good game but, as usual, you back it up with the your typical verbal diarrhea.

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 06:51 PM:

Sounds like Gary is either going to disappear or chicken out

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 07:06 PM:

Looks like the statement continues to scare the $hit out of him

Quote from ProfLogic:

As always this statement scared the $hit out of you:

"unless you have a large chunk of money you would like to part with to validate it."

If TA is HOG WASH it should be "easy pickins" to fleece me out of my money proving that my stuff is crap. But you always tuck your tail and run when confronted. You try to talk a good game but, as usual, you back it up with the your typical verbal diarrhea.

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 07:26 PM:

Well, why don't you create some upside. If you 'win' you can donate HIS money to charity.

Sorry Gary, but as it stands right now it sounds like you are afraid to put your money against his.

Quote from garyjohn:

Not in the least. There is no upside other than shaming the Prof that will come from putting up any capital. Believe it or not, I have no interest in shaming the Professor. In fact, I actually like the guy. The fact is, he cant offer any substaniation of his claims other than anecdotal tales of past glory.

If you choose to believe him , thats up to you, but your decision is built on flimsy support.

Posted by 1a2b3cppp on 03-08-10 07:32 PM:

There are easy ways to prove that a trading system works

Avoiding specific questions is not one of those ways.

See this thread for more info:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...threadid=174098

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-08-10 07:53 PM:

Quote from garyjohn:

One should never stoop to such a bar room brawl type level when discussing strategy. You are lacking the very thing your name says you are...logic. The one who makes the claims needs to defend them, not the one critical of the claims. This is debate 101--- you must have missed this one in school.
No matter how you twist things, its still YOU that have failed to provide ANYTHING other than anecdotal tales of success and pretty chart art after the fact.
What's so hard about posting calls here, or your magical charts that tell the future, just like you showed the imaginary ivy professor? You can and wont do it, instead you hurl counter challenges. Anyone with any sense can see this--- Post it or dont. and I bet you cant.

Nothing to prove here Davey. I'm crazy remember.

I trade what I do quite successfully and profitably. You tell me I can't. There in lay the rub. I don't care whether you believe me or not. I can prove it but unless there is something in it for me (like rubbing your nose in your stupidity and arrogance) it's not worth my time. Go promote your marginal hedge funds and following Vic around with your nose up his butt refusing any original thought of your own, doesn't bother me. People have been successfully fading your calls for years and they will continue from this point on.

You last sentence is all that needs to be said. You say," . . . and I bet you can't". I bet I can and did. I bet you real money which, "to date", you scurried away from the bet every single solitary time. I repeat, you try to talk a good game but can't every delivery on them.

Just a sleaze ball hack and financial promoter dragging his dead dog and pony show behind him.

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 07:56 PM:

Absolutely right (and hilarious)! He says he doesn't want to 'bet' and then says "I BET you can't"!!

Quote from ProfLogic:

You last sentence is all that needs to be said. You say," . . . and I bet you can't". I bet I can and did. I bet you real money which, "to date", you scurried away from the bet every single solitary time. I repeat, you try to talk a good game but can't every delivery on them.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-08-10 07:59 PM:

Quote from garyjohn:

Not in the least. There is no upside other than shaming the Prof that will come from putting up any capital. Believe it or not, I have no interest in shaming the Professor. In fact, I actually like the guy. The fact is, he cant offer any substaniation of his claims other than anecdotal tales of past glory.

If you choose to believe him , thats up to you, but your faith is built on flimsy support.

No upside to proving me wrong?
As hard as you have been at it, it would seem you would welcome the chance? I'm up for it. Why?
Because it is impossible for me to fail.
I hate gambling. I only take bets I KNOW I can win.

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 08:17 PM:

This statement is essentially admitting that he would prove you wrong and you'd lose your money. Think about it.

Quote from garyjohn:

Oh wait, I need to pay to find out!

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 08:30 PM:

Pretty sure page 3 of this thread shows you attacking him, unprovoked. You come in demanding certain things, he said 'sure, but it will cost you some money to see' and you start whining and backpeddling.

It's simple, the guy said he doesn't CARE if you don't believe him and if he is going to take any time out of his day to show some cry baby on the internet, it's gotta be worth his while.

I, for one, do not fault the guy at all. If you really think he is FOS you'll take him up on his offer. It's that simple.

Should be a sure thing, right?

Quote from garyjohn:

your one twisted cat...

Anyone with an edge, like he claims, has gladly shared real results in the past, as it is well known that I can easily obtain practically unlimted funding for real edge.

he doesn't have an edge, therefore resorts to name calling, threats and inane challenges instead of one iota of evidence.

Edge does exist, but not with the JH and PL's type gurus

Posted by Brianharvey on 03-08-10 08:31 PM:

So if TA doesn't work, we're just left with fundamental analysis.
Ill look into FA after ive finished looking at TA...

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 08:35 PM:

TA is whatever you decide to make of it (proprietary TA)....just don't try and follow the traditional applications blindly....be creative. The mkt rewards these kinds of thinkers

Quote from Brianharvey:

So if TA doesn't work,

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-08-10 08:45 PM:

Quote from garyjohn:

You mean like the one this morning?

http://tinyurl.com/y9muqay

Where are your market calls?

Oh wait, I need to pay to find out!

You mean like self promoting without being a vendor? Only you Davey.
Even a blind squirrel will fins a nut once in a while.

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 08:46 PM:

No, once you've established relationships between certain 'things' you look at, and have the metrics in place to determine its viability, then you place the trades whenever they align, follow your trade mgmt plan, and exit when your TA tells you to. No subjectivity, no skipping trades because you 'feel' it's not right. TAKE EACH TRADE when your proprietary TA aligns. And you accept the results as you've tested out the relationships you use so thoroughly and extensively.

Quote from garyjohn:

Are you saying TA is subjective?

If so, I agree with you.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-08-10 08:49 PM:

Quote from garyjohn:

if you are truly interested in making a career of trading, i suggest going the prop shop route to get training from REAL succesful traders. You wont see any of this convoluted logic and pretty pictures of past price action.

Avoid internet chart artists and charlatans who sell seminars without answering basic questions.

95% of ALL traders fail.
Some traders use Technical Analysis exclusively.
Some traders use Fundamental Analysis exclusively.
Some traders use a mix of both.
According to the MTA the mix is pretty evenly spread for stocks and tipped a little more toward TA for futures, commodities and options, yet 95% fail.
Seems the common factor here is 95% of traders can't use anything to be consistently profitable not just TA.

Ah regarding prop shops . . . , if they were such a beacon of light in the industry then ALL of their traders would consistently fall into the 5% category and every trader in the world would be breaking the prop shop's doors down to have them train them. Sorry to say that neither one of those scenarios are the case.

Yes, the FACTS do speak for themselves.

Posted by Brianharvey on 03-08-10 08:51 PM:

Quote from Fireplace:

TA is whatever you decide to make of it (proprietary TA)....just don't try and follow the traditional applications blindly....be creative. The mkt rewards these kinds of thinkers

Thanks. Proprietary TA. Would that be custom indictors and things like that?

Quote from garyjohn:

if you are truly interested in making a career of trading, i suggest going the prop shop route to get training from REAL succesful traders. You wont see any of this convoluted logic and pretty pictures of past price action.

Avoid internet chart artists and charlatans who sell seminars without answering basic questions.

So in a prop shop they are not using TA. But they wouldn't use Fundamentals because that would give them so few trades would it not? So can I assume you are talking about trading off of the DOM looking at bid/ask/orer size info etc??

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 08:55 PM:

Could be custom indicators, could be taking traditional indicators and using them in ways most people haven't or don't. It's about being creative, looking for correlation anywhere you can. It does take quite a bit of time to see enough market data to find these correlations but they are there

Quote from Brianharvey:

Thanks. Proprietary TA. Would that be custom indictors and things like that?

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-08-10 09:28 PM:

Quote from garyjohn:

Are you saying TA is subjective?
If so, I agree with you.
subjective TA can work for some traders. it's the JH and PL claims of objectivity in their methods that is complete nonsense.
If it was actually objective it could be automated, which these folks have failed to do, despite the claims
And I am not talkign about an "auto label" program that labels price bars after the fact--- some people never learn

The chart I'm posting here is a chart that labeled the trades. The ability you "poke fun at". The labels appear on the chart in real time, as they happen. Not only did it label the trades but I have audio alerts on the labels to verbally tell me a trade is executing or exiting. No magic simply programming of a successful objective strategy.
This is why I say that it is impossible to prove me wrong because all I have to do is set up the computer, turn it on, and sit back and watch the program execute the entries and exits. The stupid computer will out trade you or anyone you put up against it.

This example is a swing chart over the last 6 weeks. 7 trades of which 4, including current are winning trades. 3 losses are quick and small. Nothing is perfect but what I have is consistently successful.

Posted by Ivanovich on 03-08-10 09:39 PM:

garyjohn aka marketsurfer's posts were removed.

__________________
There is no spoon.

Posted by realestatewizrd on 03-08-10 09:49 PM:

Quote from ProfLogic:

The chart I'm posting here is a chart that labeled the trades. The ability you "poke fun at". The labels appear on the chart in real time, as they happen. Not only did it label the trades but I have audio alerts on the labels to verbally tell me a trade is executing or exiting. No magic simply programming of a successful objective strategy.
This is why I say that it is impossible to prove me wrong because all I have to do is set up the computer, turn it on, and sit back and watch the program execute the entries and exits. The stupid computer will out trade you or anyone you put up against it.

This example is a swing chart over the last 6 weeks. 7 trades of which 4, including current are winning trades. 3 losses are quick and small. Nothing is perfect but what I have is consistently successful.

Hmmmm, this begs the obvious question--- why do you use charts at all? Computers don't "read charts" they are merely to illusitrate a point to humans. the most basic observation comes up not as it seems, i see. could it be them charts are just to lure noobs to the seminars and book? Something is very fishy here!

However, it could be all cleared up, if you would just post one them charts prior to the FACT. Impossible?? yeah, I think so.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-08-10 10:05 PM:

Quote from realestatewizrd:

Hmmmm, this begs the obvious question--- why do you use charts at all? Computers don't "read charts" they are merely to illusitrate a point to humans. Something is very fishy here!

However, it could be all cleared up, if you would just post one them charts prior to the FACT. Impossible?? yeah, I think so.

Hey, nice to see you back again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . Davey Boy. That was a quick recovery.

My computer program reads natural chart oscillations. You wouldn't understand that since you are all about chaos and can't program.

Posting a chart in real time. Sure, why? I have nothing to prove except that you are a fool and we all know that already.

Posted by Fireplace on 03-08-10 10:20 PM:

Guy, you keep getting banned. Maybe that's a hint you are not wanted?

Quote from realestatewizrd:

Hmmmm, this begs the obvious question--- why do you use charts at all? Computers don't "read charts" they are merely to illusitrate a point to humans. the most basic observation comes up not as it seems, i see. could it be them charts are just to lure noobs to the seminars and book? Something is very fishy here!

However, it could be all cleared up, if you would just post one them charts prior to the FACT. Impossible?? yeah, I think so.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-08-10 10:41 PM:

Quote from Fireplace:

Guy, you keep getting banned. Maybe that's a hint you are not wanted?

When all you have going for you is self promotion, you have to try to be persistent I guess.

Posted by wrbtrader on 03-08-10 10:56 PM:

Quote from Ivanovich:

garyjohn aka marketsurfer's posts were removed.

I doubt that's marketsurfer considering he uses charts and has often posted his price action only (TA) thoughts.

Mark

Posted by circadian on 03-08-10 11:04 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from greencapital:

1) Totally wrong and bordering on ignorance.

2) Show me the horrendous disproven---

3) since if you can, why can't you corner the market? ra ra ra

1) Really? There's nothing ignorant about not clinging to an outdated and disfunctional conceptual-framework.

2) Hurst Exponent (KAOS on Bloomberg) EMH, if it were real, would show it flatlining, more or less

3) Corner the market? Well, the only thing stopping me is the fact that I'm not a trillionaire. Come to think of it, that's the only thing stopping anyone.

Posted by wrbtrader on 03-08-10 11:19 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from circadian:

...

3) Corner the market? Well, the only thing stopping me is the fact that I'm not a trillionaire. Come to think of it, that's the only thing stopping anyone. [/B]

Exactly, first there needs to be a market that can be cornered. Next, you need to have the funds and market collaboration from other key participants to corner the market.

Great example is the billionaire HUNTS in their quest to corner the Silver markets. They almost did it after creating a silver shortage by sending/hiding large quantities of it in Switzerland instead of keeping it in the U.S.

http://www.silvermonthly.com/182/bu...-silver-market/

http://www.investopedia.com/article...nt-brothers.asp

I remember clearly the Gold and Silver markets back then when I was a kid as if it was today because my old man (a floor trader at the time) would often talk about it with his trading pals he invited over for dinner.

Mark

Posted by circadian on 03-09-10 01:12 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from wrbtrader:

Exactly, first there needs to be a market that can be cornered. Next, you need to have the funds and market collaboration from other key participants to corner the market.

Great example is the billionaire HUNTS in their quest to corner the Silver markets. They almost did it after creating a silver shortage by sending/hiding large quantities of it in Switzerland instead of keeping it in the U.S.

http://www.silvermonthly.com/182/bu...-silver-market/

http://www.investopedia.com/article...nt-brothers.asp

I remember clearly the Gold and Silver markets back then when I was a kid as if it was today because my old man (a floor trader at the time) would often talk about it with his trading pals he invited over for dinner.

Mark

So true, and the only thing that stopped them was margin requirement changes for the metals contracts and the Fed. The Hunt's were made an example of by the regulators. It can be done.

Posted by realestatewizrd on 03-09-10 02:04 AM:

Proflogic and his ban of logical chart annotaters ( pre PC, of course!)

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-09-10 02:17 PM:

Quote from realestatewizrd:

Nah, this is a picture of a David Goodboy rah rah session for the hedge funds he promotes. The poor people are singing a 600 foot contract of disclaimers and fine print explaining why his funds can't consistently make money from their investments.

My past courses were never PC free.

Posted by 1a2b3cppp on 03-09-10 07:10 PM:

A lot of people sure are missing some big things in this discussion here.

Perhaps everyone needs a refresher:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...threadid=174098

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-09-10 09:12 PM:

Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

A lot of people sure are missing some big things in this discussion here.

Perhaps everyone needs a refresher:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...threadid=174098

Not related to discussion.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-09-10 10:45 PM:

Quote from 20angrygurus:

Stop posting these outright lies.

Last I checked, Surfer fund(s) was up over 50% last year on a 15 million dollar investment--- seems like a nice payday for Mr. Surf.

Not sure of the returns in 2010, yet.

Surf doesn't have a fund he has a dog and pony (phony) show promoting a fund.
Fifteen million is all you could drum up? What a loser.
Post some verifiable statements for those numbers.
Oh you can't . . .
You have a fund and don't know what the year to date numbers are . . . . what a troll..

I'm as much of a stealth vendor as you are a pedophile Davey Goodboy.

Posted by 1a2b3cppp on 03-09-10 11:38 PM:

Quote from ProfLogic:

Not related to discussion.

Oh it's absolutely related, specifically the part that talks about misdirection (I think it's that thread).

As I said on the previous page (or a previous page, depending on how many posts you have per page in the forum settings), there are easy ways to prove that a trading system works. Avoiding specific questions is not one of those ways.

I know if I was trying to sell a system, or trying to prove that I was a a profitable trader, I would be posting screen shots and call live trades, etc.

When someone asked a question about my system I certainly wouldn't redirect, or insult them, or shrug it off as a joke or say it's unimportant. But then again, I'm not a mystical Yoda who only speaks in riddles where the masses just don't get what I'm saying the first time I say it because it's super evolved guru speak. You see, that's what scammy internet (and real life) vendors do. People who are legit give straightforward answers because they have nothing to hide.

The thought of "oh shit, I hope the conversation doesn't go in this direction" never occurs to legit people, so there's no reason to ignore questions, or disregard anything, or shrug something off, etc.

But then again, I'm sure everyone in this thread already knows all of this...

... if not, I have this awesome profitable system I would love to sell you, but I can only post after-the-fact charts and don't bother asking me any questions because the rules are SO complex that you have to be a genius (like me) to understand. Oh and if you can't make it work, it's because you're dumb, not because my system doesn't work: you just need to study it harder. Oh and if you question it, I'll just insult you or redirect the discussion so the topic of my system not possibly being profitable never comes up and I never lose my "credibility."

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 12:09 AM:

Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

Oh it's absolutely related, specifically the part that talks about misdirection (I think it's that thread).
As I said on the previous page (or a previous page, depending on how many posts you have per page in the forum settings), there are easy ways to prove that a trading system works. Avoiding specific questions is not one of those ways.
I know if I was trying to sell a system, or trying to prove that I was a a profitable trader, I would be posting screen shots and call live trades, etc.
When someone asked a question about my system I certainly wouldn't redirect, or insult them, or shrug it off as a joke or say it's unimportant. But then again, I'm not a mystical Yoda who only speaks in riddles where the masses just don't get what I'm saying the first time I say it because it's super evolved guru speak. You see, that's what scammy internet (and real life) vendors do. People who are legit give straightforward answers because they have nothing to hide.
The thought of "oh shit, I hope the conversation doesn't go in this direction" never occurs to legit people, so there's no reason to ignore questions, or disregard anything, or shrug something off, etc.
But then again, I'm sure everyone in this thread already knows all of this...
... if not, I have this awesome profitable system I would love to sell you, but I can only post after-the-fact charts and don't bother asking me any questions because the rules are SO complex that you have to be a genius (like me) to understand. Oh and if you can't make it work, it's because you're dumb, not because my system doesn't work. Oh and if you question it, I'll just insult you or redirect the discussion so the topic of my system not possibly being profitable never comes up and I never lose my "credibility."

I've never avoided specific questions. If you go back through my posts or ask others who have, I have, in great detail, laid out exactly what I do and restated it numerous times to clarify each point. You've been here 18 months, I've been here almost 6 years sharing exactly what I do. I've shared this openly so individuals could validate it on their own without any financial commitment to a vendor.

I have a website but I never mention it in my posts or solicit people to pay me money. Hell, I give it away for free for those who aren't lazy. I even freely share my indicators. I've given those out to over 150 here on this site, all for the purpose of personal validation of what I do.

Do not preach to me unless you read all 4800+ of my posts to make an informed an intelligent decision based on ALL of the information. Not just what the lazy unintelligent slimy trolls want you feed you. Think for yourself.

I retaliate against the false posts . . . period. If you choose not to validate that position I can't force you to read what have been posted in black and white so you may see what is true and what is not. That being the case when you make unsubstantiated comments and posts I will treat you the same way.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 12:13 AM:

Quote from 20angrygurus:

The stealth vendor of perfect systems and auto labeling software named Proflogic is getting angry. Hurling personal insults since he doesnt know what else to do, like a cornered rat.
750 for an ebook> http://www.pricephysics.com/new_site_003.htm
2500 plus for a seminar in the third world?
And he says he isnt a vendor???? Embrace it, prof, you are a stealth VENDOR,

As you can see I don't have to mention my site when we have idots like Davey boy here on this site.
You can see for yourself on the site that there are no seminars but he posts the lie so you will believe it instead of checking for yourself.

If you think someone can earn a living selling a few books a year Davey are are dumber than I even thought.

What I will embrace is that this nickname will be banned like all your others ones by morning.

Posted by 1a2b3cppp on 03-10-10 12:27 AM:

Quote from ProfLogic:

I've never avoided specific questions. If you go back through my posts or ask others who have, I have, in great detail, laid out exactly what I do and restated it numerous times to clarify each point. You've been here 18 months, I've been here almost 6 years sharing exactly what I do. I've shared this openly so individuals could validate it on their own without any financial commitment to a vendor.

I have a website but I never mention it in my posts or solicit people to pay me money. Hell, I give it away for free for those who aren't lazy. I even freely share my indicators. I've given those out to over 150 here on this site, all for the purpose of personal validation of what I do.

Do not preach to me unless you read all 4800+ of my posts to make an informed an intelligent decision based on ALL of the information. Not just what the lazy unintelligent slimy trolls want you feed you. Think for yourself.

I retaliate against the false posts . . . period. If you choose not to validate that position I can't force you to read what have been posted in black and white so you may see what is true and what is not. That being the case when you make unsubstantiated comments and posts I will treat you the same way.

Whoa tough guy, I never mentioned you.

All I did was lay out some general guidelines for noobs to keep in mind when encountering "gurus" online. Would you say it's a good list, or would you disagree with any of them?

I do seem to recall some ambiguity and misdirection in the "ProfLogic's Method" thread:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...threadid=146039

Of course that was like a year ago and I don't have time to read all 1356 replies right now, but maybe if I get bored later.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 12:46 AM:

Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

Whoa tough guy, I never mentioned you.
All I did was lay out some general guidelines for noobs to keep in mind when encountering "gurus" online. Would you say it's a good list, or would you disagree with any of them?
I do seem to recall some ambiguity and misdirection in the "ProfLogic's Method" thread:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...threadid=146039
Of course that was like a year ago and I don't have time to read all 1356 replies right now, but maybe if I get bored later.

Sorry, you responded to my comment & quoted me, so yes, you directed your comments to me. I try to be accurate.

I agree with the guidelines. Common sense dictates that no one should blindly follow anyone without validating the information they offer personally. For God's sake this is trading and a career here. We are talking about real money. We all work extremely hard for what we earn in the markets or in our jobs and should never throw it away on someone hot air.

In regards to that thread, it was 16 months ago and I find it amazing since you couldn't "find the time" to be accurate in your comments regarding the thread but you choose to paraphrase & comment on the possibility of some ambiguity or misdirection. You are wrong but I guess it will take you getting bored to find the facts and begin to make accurate statements in these threads.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 12:49 AM:

Quote from 20angrygurus:

Does anyone use the Proflogic method succesfully?

He has shared the method with 150 poor souls seeking answers here on elite, where are the succesful students? ( his claim of course)
Come forward with your tales of success.
OR
Did you find the system full of ambiguity and subjective decision making? The nature of the system makes this abundantly clear, but I want to hear it from the succesful students,
any one, anyone?

How about someone that has made money investing with Davey boy here . . . anyone?
I'm not trying to sell anything here but you are troll.
Countdown to the BAN!

Posted by joe4422 on 03-10-10 01:08 AM:

The whole thing is dumb anyway. No one has holes in their shoes or frayed collars any more. Since we now import everything from China, everyone can get a pair of shoes for 8 bucks and a shirt for 3 bucks.

Larry Williams has always been a big technical analysis basher. He started a newsletter a couple of years ago, and has lost money. His incredible cycle work, didn't work out so well.

These guys are just in business to catch traders are giving up and looking for something else. They tell them what they want to hear, yeah, that stuffs all crap, here take a look at this, this is really good.

Welcome to the crap spewing industry we're all part of.

Posted by 1a2b3cppp on 03-10-10 01:33 AM:

Quote from ProfLogic:

Sorry, you responded to my comment & quoted me, so yes, you directed your comments to me. I try to be accurate.

The reason I quoted you is because you said it wasn't relevant, but it is relavent.

In regards to that thread, it was 16 months ago and I find it amazing since you couldn't "find the time" to be accurate in your comments regarding the thread but you choose to paraphrase & comment on the possibility of some ambiguity or misdirection. You are wrong but I guess it will take you getting bored to find the facts and begin to make accurate statements in these threads.

Why is it hard to believe that I don't remember something from a thread that I lost interst in a year ago? I barely remember what I did yesterday.

Posted by 1a2b3cppp on 03-10-10 01:34 AM:

Quote from ProfLogic:

How about someone that has made money investing with Davey boy here . . . anyone?
I'm not trying to sell anything here but you are troll.
Countdown to the BAN!

Technically speaking here you're avoiding his question about if anyone successfully uses your method by using the redirection method.

20angrygurus asked:

Does anyone use the Proflogic method succesfully?

You replied:

How about someone that has made money investing with Davey boy here . . . anyone?

Redirection.

Just saying.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 01:57 AM:

Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

I barely remember what I did yesterday.

Wow, that is too bad. B vitamins will help.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 02:05 AM:

Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

Technically speaking here you're avoiding his question about if anyone successfully uses your method by using the redirection method.
20angrygurus asked:
Does anyone use the Proflogic method succesfully?
You replied:
How about someone that has made money investing with Davey boy here . . . anyone?
Redirection.
Just saying.

He isn't relevant. He is a trouble maker. He is a flamer. He is a troll and a hedge fund vendor.

If someone would like to respond, that is up to them not some lying troll to bully them into making a statement that he will only ridicule. Damn man how old are you. Don't you know how this works yet? I'm not selling anything on this site or soliciting anyone, he is. He has been posting links to his blog for days.

If you want to assist a known miscreant and liar . . . hey . . . birds of a feather.

Just saying.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 02:10 AM:

Quote from 20angrygurus:

What? The way I understand Surf's program is its a minimum of 5 million. I doubt there are many here who would buy your book for 750, let alone have the wherewithall to invest 5 million,

regardless, answering a question with a question is simply poor form, but we expect nothing less

I don't attest to know who has what on here. You are the king of the assumption on this site. Currently the king of talking about yourself in the third person too. Major psychological problems there bub.

You haven't answered a single question I've put to you in months. . . I guess that makes you the bottom of that poor form barrel, huh hack.

How are you and your buddy Madoff getting along these days? Sending him plenty of cookies and letters to the lock up?

Posted by dandxg on 03-10-10 02:11 AM:

Quote from joe4422:

The whole thing is dumb anyway. No one has holes in their shoes or frayed collars any more. Since we now import everything from China, everyone can get a pair of shoes for 8 bucks and a shirt for 3 bucks.

Larry Williams has always been a big technical analysis basher. He started a newsletter a couple of years ago, and has lost money. His incredible cycle work, didn't work out so well.

These guys are just in business to catch traders are giving up and looking for something else. They tell them what they want to hear, yeah, that stuffs all crap, here take a look at this, this is really good.

Welcome to the crap spewing industry we're all part of.

Larry is really slick. I didn't know his mulit-account scheme until recently.

http://www.jurikres.com/snake/lawsuits.htm

Posted by oraclewizard77 on 03-10-10 03:39 AM:

Feel free to stop responding to him = (20angrygurus). I have cleaned up his posts and advised admin to ban. If he comes back or is still posting here, just keep clicking on complain.

Quote from ProfLogic:

I don't attest to know who has what on here. You are the king of the assumption on this site. Currently the king of talking about yourself in the third person too. Major psychological problems there bub.

You haven't answered a single question I've put to you in months. . . I guess that makes you the bottom of that poor form barrel, huh hack.

How are you and your buddy Madoff getting along these days? Sending him plenty of cookies and letters to the lock up?

Posted by Lethn on 03-10-10 09:20 AM:

lol arrogant adults outwitted by more intelligent children yet again. I despise teachers like that who expect you to absorb all their bullshit without explaining their reasoning. This is the reason that the education system has gone completely downhill, it's tantamount to indoctrination.

__________________
www.frontier-space.com

Posted by Lethn on 03-10-10 10:00 AM:

You learn by questioning something, not by just accepting it.

__________________
www.frontier-space.com

Posted by 0008 on 03-10-10 12:00 PM:

Quote from dandxg:

Larry is really slick. I didn't know his mulit-account scheme until recently.

http://www.jurikres.com/snake/lawsuits.htm

very interesting

but when will jurikres ...

__________________
Before you know how to use a stop loss, you don't know how to trade.

ultimately you're going to have to come up with your own trading strategy that suits you, not something that someone gives you.

Some people become socialist after they've made their money. It's a great device for inhibiting competition.

"You can't calculate the probability a trade being profitable; you can only calculate your exposure. So all you can do is manage your losses, not predict profits"

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 01:40 PM:

Quote from dandxg:

Larry is really slick. I didn't know his mulit-account scheme until recently.

http://www.jurikres.com/snake/lawsuits.htm

Jurik has a lot of gaul to put up a snake oil page. I sent them my proprietary indicator for them to test and smooth, they got back to me and told me they couldn't improve on it and now they are selling the indicator I sent them with my settings.
Lovely group of guys.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 01:41 PM:

Quote from 20angryguru:

The perfect guru vendor continues to avoid the questions. He threatens, He poses, he bullies

Man, this couldn't be any better fodder.

You haven't answered a single question I've put to you in months. . . I guess that makes you the bottom of that poor form barrel, huh hack.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 01:46 PM:

Quote from 20angryguru:

What claims do I need to defend, Mr. Vendor of Market Perfection?
I make no claims of trading gurudom.
You make the claims, you need to provide the evidence or leave in shame.

Sure you have Mr. Vendor of Hedge funds and Bernie Madoff lover, you have by posting your Marketsurfer stats. Prove it.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 03:05 PM:

Quote from 20angryguru:

To set the record straight from this malicious lie---marketsurfer HATES Bernie Madoff. Several of his friends lost $$ with the con artist. Fortunately, they are among the ultra high net worth and Con Man Bernie only had a small percentage of their assets.
Secondly, Madoff basically made Marketsurfer's thriving business, up to that point, all the more difficult due to the lack of trust, Madoff caused in the fund business.
Furthermore, if you are interested in Marketsurfer trading acumen, live calls before the fact, have been posted SINCE 2002 on THE SURF REPORT ( one of elitetraders most popular journals so much so surfer was supposedly banned for having too large a following)--for all to see and evaluate. Plus they are currently being made here www.marketsurfer.com However, I have never seen surf make any claims of trading acumen--he does know more than anyone I have met about the biz, however.

You're a hoot Davey.
You respond to the posts as you "are" David Goodboy but deny it.
Hey if I were you, I'd sure deny I was him. Now one wants to be associated to a banned lying hack.

Posted by Fireplace on 03-10-10 03:20 PM:

He usually appears when you are standing in front of a mirror, right

Quote from 20angryguru:

I know the guy. He is a close friend of mine

Posted by 1a2b3cppp on 03-10-10 03:24 PM:

Quote from ProfLogic:

Jurik has a lot of gaul to put up a snake oil page. I sent them my proprietary indicator for them to test and smooth, they got back to me and told me they couldn't improve on it and now they are selling the indicator I sent them with my settings.
Lovely group of guys.

Link to where Jurik is selling your indicator?

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 03:30 PM:

Quote from 20angryguru:

I know the guy. He is a close friend of mine, in fact, sitting in the next office. You are one bitter dude----

You made me that way Davey . . .

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 03:42 PM:

Quote from 1a2b3cppp:

Link to where Jurik is selling your indicator?

Do the leg work on your own. Contact then for a sample of their Erogodic indicator. Once you get it I'll provide you with the documents that show the parameters they use I created and have been using for 2 years before they started offering it.

I don't care because they don't know how to use it nor do they instruct others on its proper use. I give it away anyway. I just think it is a hoot that they repackaged it and are selling it.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 03:51 PM:

Quote from 20angryguru:

I sincerely doubt he will produce anything.
His claim is likely not fully accurate.
His modus operandi in the past will be to question you for asking him. Get ready for some serious verbal defense and anger for you asking.
Remember, this is the same guy who claimed to have a PATENT on the PERFECT TRADING METHOD.
What ever happened to the PATENT or even the TM.
GO back and check out his early posts if you want some humor

Wow, you are a real liar.
The provisional patent I let expire because I was advised to. It reverts to public domain in 20 years if I followed through with it.
Oh, sorry you aren't honest enough to post that bit of information are you hack. Spin the information toward YOUR truth not the whole truth.
And its a copyright not a trademark. More of your lying spin. It is absolutely no wonder you can't get a job as a reputable journalist.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 04:17 PM:

Quote from 20angryguru:

Now the story changes.

As the supposed creator of the indicator, you have certain rights to stop them from profiting from it, and or claiming it as their own. why have you not pursued this? And if you have, why were the results against you? Lack of proof that you are the creator?

Now you can't read as well, or it is selective which I feel is more the case.
At least you are consistent.
I never said I created the indicator I said I created the parameters used in the indicator Jurik sells. Blau created the indicator. I've had 3 people tell me that the ERG Jurik sent them was nearly identical to the one I created. Near impossible to duplicate it since the 3 core parameters I use offer a potential of almost 999 million different combinations.
I repeat. I give it away anyway so it doesn't matter. I just find it stupidly but aggravatingly humorous . . . like I find you.
Every time you post it is ever more evident why the term "hack" fits you.

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-10-10 06:10 PM:

Quote from 20angryguru:

Let's see how surf's non TA, non Trend trade works out, called in real time: LONG the EUR/USD @1.3666
http://tinyurl.com/yfetfaf

see illustrative not predictive chart

Let's see one of your calls, Dr. logic LOL !

It sure won't be calling a position trade long in the Euro with it consolidating between 1.3705 & 1.3536 and strength still down here.
The short since the beginning of December is still valid with a stop at 1.4033.
Are we creating a bottom here, yes. Is it confirmed yet, no. Is it safe to go long here, no.

Posted by RCG Trader on 03-10-10 08:56 PM:

Quote from ProfLogic:

It sure won't be calling a position trade long in the Euro with it consolidating between 1.3705 & 1.3536 and strength still down here.
The short since the beginning of December is still valid with a stop at 1.4033.
Are we creating a bottom here, yes. Is it confirmed yet, no. Is it safe to go long here, no.

Wasn't there a thread on this topic that was like 100 pages long about why you decided not to copywrite that flow chart, or the indicator??

Newbies

Edit: I see surf is back from the dead. You should not have made him look so bad in his journal, Prof, now this is what you get

Posted by RCG Trader on 03-10-10 09:00 PM:

Quote from 20angryguru:

Let's see how surf's non TA, non Trend trade works out, called in real time: LONG the EUR/USD @1.3666
http://tinyurl.com/yfetfaf

see illustrative not predictive chart

Let's see one of your calls, Dr. logic LOL !

Surf, is that you?

You do know you have been banned for this type of activity at least twice before

Posted by ProfLogic on 03-22-10 02:25 PM:

Quote from 20angryguru:

Let's see how surf's non TA, non Trend trade works out, called in real time: LONG the EUR/USD @1.3666
http://tinyurl.com/yfetfaf
____________________________________________________
Just wanted to mention the Surf's call was again a beautiful fade for 200 pips or $2500 per contract . . . so far.

Posted by kut2k2 on 10-29-10 02:20 PM:

Quote from ProfLogic:

Do the leg work on your own. Contact then for a sample of their Erogodic indicator. Once you get it I'll provide you with the documents that show the parameters they use I created and have been using for 2 years before they started offering it.

I don't care because they don't know how to use it nor do they instruct others on its proper use. I give it away anyway. I just think it is a hoot that they repackaged it and are selling it.

I've searched and can't find any Ergodic Indicator for sale on Jurik's website. And the Ergodic is a publicly disclosed indicator already. So basically you're accusing Jurik of stealing and selling your settings to a free indicator?

Posted by ElCubano on 10-29-10 03:04 PM:

Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from crgarcia:

University professors are sometimes asked by their students, "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?"
The question usually rankles professors, who think of themselves as passing up worldly riches to engage in such an obviously socially useful occupation as teaching. The same question might more appropriately be addressed to technicians.

For, after all, the whole point of technical analysis is to make money, and one would reasonably expect that those who preach it should practice it successfully in their own investments.

On close examination, technicians are often seen with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars. I, personally, have never known a successful technician, but I have seen the wrecks of several unsuccessful ones. (This is, of course, in terms of following their own technical advice. Commissions from urging customers to act on their recommendations are very lucrative.)

Curiously, however, the broke technician is never apologetic. If you commit the social error of asking him why he is broke, he will tell you quite ingenuously that he made the all-too-human error of not believing his own charts.
To my great embarrassment, I once choked conspicuously at the dinner table of a chartist friend of mine when he made such a comment. I have since made it a rule never to eat with a chartist. It's bad for digestion.

Burton G. Malkiel
A random walk down Wall Street

My next door neighbor is worth about $12mil and he looks like he is on food stamps.....keep that in mind...peace

__________________
Freedom, I have much love for ya!!

Posted by ProfLogic on 10-29-10 03:16 PM:

Quote from kut2k2:

I've searched and can't find any Ergodic Indicator for sale on Jurik's website. And the Ergodic is a publicly disclosed indicator already. So basically you're accusing Jurik of stealing and selling your settings to a free indicator?

Wow, talk about left field corner.

The Ergodic is a publicly disclosed and free indicator but it can be customized and adjusted to literally millions of unique settings. My customized setting as are only good, as far as I've tested, for use on constant volume bar charts.

One of the things Jurik does is to try to smooth common indicators, so why wouldn't they try to smooth every free indicator and offer to sell it?

Prior to the date of my post in March Jurik offered a customized indicator that was amazingly similar to my customized Ergodic. I was contacted by two separate programmers that had received a trial version of that indicator and contacted me of the amazing coincidence and similarity.

No, I am not basically accusing Jurik of stealing and selling my settings to a free indicator. I am saying that considering the coincidences someone in their organization should get a new position of buying chances in international and national lotteries.

Posted by kut2k2 on 10-29-10 07:38 PM:

Quote from ProfLogic:

One of the things Jurik does is to try to smooth common indicators, so why wouldn't they try to smooth every free indicator and offer to sell it?

The only one I'm aware of is their customized version of the ever popular RSI which they call RSX. Frankly I don't see Mark Jurik doing anything with Lane's stochastic or Bollinger bands anytime soon.

Posted by ProfLogic on 10-29-10 08:20 PM:

Quote from kut2k2:

The only one I'm aware of is their customized version of the ever popular RSI which they call RSX. Frankly I don't see Mark Jurik doing anything with Lane's stochastic or Bollinger bands anytime soon.

Many years ago he offered Smoothed Stochastics. He probably discovered it was a worthless indicator to begin with.

Posted by crgarcia on 10-30-10 05:06 PM:

Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from ElCubano:

My next door neighbor is worth about $12mil and he looks like he is on food stamps.....keep that in mind...peace

Daytraders look like they are in food stamps,
and they ARE on food stamps.

Keep that in mind.

Quote from ProfLogic:

Many years ago he offered Smoothed Stochastics. He probably discovered it was a worthless indicator to begin with.

Of course all indicators are worthless since they just CAN'T predict the future.

__________________
I ♥ TO SWING - trade!

Posted by ProfLogic on 10-30-10 05:37 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from crgarcia:

Of course all indicators are worthless since they just CAN'T predict the future.

Hey butt munch, go pack a few pages to my real time call on the Euro FX. That trade only made about $10K per contract. That's more than you made all of last year.

Nice to see Fire caught you in a lie about your day trading career too.

Can you really afford to take a day off from the fry station?

Posted by Spydertrader on 10-30-10 08:31 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from crgarcia:

Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

I live across the street from a farmer. He wears dirt covered overall jeans every day of the year (and has done so for the last 50 years). He doesn't drive a Lexus, but he does drive a $350,000 John Deere Combine for 6 weeks out of a given year. The rest of the time, he travels in his 1982 era chevy pick up. He sent all six of his kids to college and paid their freight (two went to Harvard).

He also donates more to local charities each year than many people make in a given year.

When you judge a book by its cover, you do so at your own peril.

- Spydertrader

__________________

Posted by killthesunshine on 10-30-10 08:36 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from Spydertrader:

I live across the street from a farmer. He wears dirt covered overall jeans every day of the year (and has done so for the last 50 years). He doesn't drive a Lexus, but he does drive a $350,000 John Deere Combine for 6 weeks out of a given year. The rest of the time, he travels in his 1982 era chevy pick up. He sent all six of his kids to college and paid their freight (two went to Harvard).

He also donates more to local charities each year than many people make in a given year.

When you judge a book by its cover, you do so at your own peril.

- Spydertrader

that explains why my fvcking tomato costs 2 dollars

Posted by ProfLogic on 10-30-10 10:27 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from killthesunshine:

that explains why my fvcking tomato costs 2 dollars

I think that has more to do with where you live.

Posted by ProfLogic on 10-30-10 10:29 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from Spydertrader:

I live across the street from a farmer. He wears dirt covered overall jeans every day of the year (and has done so for the last 50 years). He doesn't drive a Lexus, but he does drive a $350,000 John Deere Combine for 6 weeks out of a given year. The rest of the time, he travels in his 1982 era chevy pick up. He sent all six of his kids to college and paid their freight (two went to Harvard).

He also donates more to local charities each year than many people make in a given year.

When you judge a book by its cover, you do so at your own peril.

- Spydertrader

I live behind his brother, south of you.

Posted by MohdSalleh on 10-30-10 10:30 PM:

Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from ElCubano:

My next door neighbor is worth about $12mil and he looks like he is on food stamps.....keep that in mind...peace

I am not impressed. it only proves money does not buy happiness

Posted by ProfLogic on 10-30-10 10:40 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from MohdSalleh:

I am not impressed. it only proves money does not buy happiness

You're not suppose to be impressed.

Like Spyder's neighbor, my neighbor isn't happy unless he has dirt under his nails and he's knee deep in his fields. At $10K per acre, he owns 9000 acres (free and clear) and the equipment to farm it. Do the math. The man has a size 22 ring finger (scary) and is one of the happiest men I know.

Posted by crgarcia on 11-01-10 04:55 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from ProfLogic:

Hey butt munch, go pack a few pages to my real time call on the Euro FX. That trade only made about $10K per contract. That's more than you made all of last year.

Nice to see Fire caught you in a lie about your day trading career too.

Can you really afford to take a day off from the fry station?

Anyone can post after-the-fact fabricated (forged) account statements.
Soon I will post a website where real time trades can't be modified, unlike ET.

Already scared?
I can sense your fear!

Quote from Spydertrader:

I live across the street from a farmer. He wears dirt covered overall jeans every day of the year (and has done so for the last 50 years). He doesn't drive a Lexus, but he does drive a $350,000 John Deere Combine for 6 weeks out of a given year. The rest of the time, he travels in his 1982 era chevy pick up. He sent all six of his kids to college and paid their freight (two went to Harvard).

He also donates more to local charities each year than many people make in a given year.

When you judge a book by its cover, you do so at your own peril.

- Spydertrader

The problem is that daytraders/technicians look poor and they all ARE INDEED very poor.

__________________
I ♥ TO SWING - trade!

Posted by ProfLogic on 11-01-10 05:10 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Technicians with holes in their shoes and frayed shirt collars

Quote from crgarcia:

Anyone can post after-the-fact fabricated (forged) account statements.

That was posted prior to the move in the chart . . . oh, I forgot you can't read charts or comprehend the written word either.

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