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Posted by exoticoption924 on 07-16-09 08:29 PM:

WTS Proprietary Trading Group

I attended the WTS Open House in NYC on July 15 and here are my general impressions as well as some details on their program.

- Canadian firm
- Their specialty is what is referred to as "high frequency trading"
- No capital deposit required
- Commission rate is 20 cents per 1000 shares
- $1500 training fee
- $200/month Sterling software fee
- 50/50 profit split

Overall, the presentation was OK, although the acoustics were not so great and toward the end it got annoying because people were asking so many random questions, most of which I could not comprehend. The person speaking (I believe he was the co-owner of the firm, Canadian gentlemen) seemed to present a rosier picture of the business than I thought was justified (e.g. "we know how to make money and we will teach you, etc..."). However, these type of comments were tempered by him saying, among other things, that only 2 or 3 out of 10 people will make really good money. It didn't appear that he was trying to get people to sign on the proverbial dotted line and hand over their money. In fact, he made it a point to mention that they don't take just anyone, that there is an interview process and if they think you have what it takes you will get hired. In other words, you can't just come off the street and hand over $1500 and start training/trading with them. I have no way of knowing whether this is accurate as I'd need to see what % of the applicants they reject; perhaps some current WTS traders can shed some light.

Their specialty is "high frequency trading (HFT)," which from what I can gather seems to be similar but slightly different from day trading. I'm not clear on what exactly differentiates HFT from day trading, but perhaps someone with a good understanding of the two can explain it to me.

The speaker did stress that there is no capital contribution required. Even the commissions will come out of your PnL (if you make no money, WTS eats the commission) , which surprised me because I thought at the very least they'd want to make money on the commissions. Also, they require you to trade a minimum of 100,000 shares per day (2 million shares a month). Then there is the matter of the $1500 training fee and $200/month software fee. First off, the $200/month software fee can also come out of your PnL. I also distinctly recall the speaker saying that even if we don't have the $1500, it is possible to pay a small upfront amount and have the rest come out your PnL. One thing to note however: The losses, if I'm not mistaken, do carry over each month. In other words, if you have a $1000 loss one month and the next month you have a $3000 gain, your net gain for that month would be reduced by the $1000 loss from the previous month.

On the surface all this appears to be a decent deal for the NEW trader. From everything I heard at the open house, WTS definitely has a strong incentive to see that you become a profitable trader. In other words, they're not really gaining much, if anything, if you are there for a month or two and end up sucking. The downside is that it will likely take you a year or so (if at all you are destined to be profitable trader) to start making enough to pay your monthly living expenses. So, my guess is that you'll need another job for the first year to keep yourself afloat.

I'm really only interested in hearing from current WTS traders about anything I've mentioned above. Specifically, I'd like to know about the interview. Are they really that selective? And if so, what do they look for in their new traders? I am scheduled for an interview with them next week.

Posted by swiftmike99 on 07-16-09 10:02 PM:

Re: WTS Proprietary Trading Group

Quote from exoticoption924:

I attended the WTS Open House in NYC on July 15 and here are my general impressions as well as some details on their program.

- Canadian firm
- Their specialty is what is referred to as "high frequency trading"
- No capital deposit required
- Commission rate is 20 cents per 1000 shares
- $1500 training fee
- $200/month Sterling software fee
- 50/50 profit split

Overall, the presentation was OK, although the acoustics were not so great and toward the end it got annoying because people were asking so many random questions, most of which I could not comprehend. The person speaking (I believe he was the co-owner of the firm, Canadian gentlemen) seemed to present a rosier picture of the business than I thought was justified (e.g. "we know how to make money and we will teach you, etc..."). However, these type of comments were tempered by him saying, among other things, that only 2 or 3 out of 10 people will make really good money. It didn't appear that he was trying to get people to sign on the proverbial dotted line and hand over their money. In fact, he made it a point to mention that they don't take just anyone, that there is an interview process and if they think you have what it takes you will get hired. In other words, you can't just come off the street and hand over $1500 and start training/trading with them. I have no way of knowing whether this is accurate as I'd need to see what % of the applicants they reject; perhaps some current WTS traders can shed some light.

Their specialty is "high frequency trading (HFT)," which from what I can gather seems to be similar but slightly different from day trading. I'm not clear on what exactly differentiates HFT from day trading, but perhaps someone with a good understanding of the two can explain it to me.

The speaker did stress that there is no capital contribution required. Even the commissions will come out of your PnL (if you make no money, WTS eats the commission) , which surprised me because I thought at the very least they'd want to make money on the commissions. Also, they require you to trade a minimum of 100,000 shares per day (2 million shares a month). Then there is the matter of the $1500 training fee and $200/month software fee. First off, the $200/month software fee can also come out of your PnL. I also distinctly recall the speaker saying that even if we don't have the $1500, it is possible to pay a small upfront amount and have the rest come out your PnL. One thing to note however: The losses, if I'm not mistaken, do carry over each month. In other words, if you have a $1000 loss one month and the next month you have a $3000 gain, your net gain for that month would be reduced by the $1000 loss from the previous month.

On the surface all this appears to be a decent deal for the NEW trader. From everything I heard at the open house, WTS definitely has a strong incentive to see that you become a profitable trader. In other words, they're not really gaining much, if anything, if you are there for a month or two and end up sucking. The downside is that it will likely take you a year or so (if at all you are destined to be profitable trader) to start making enough to pay your monthly living expenses. So, my guess is that you'll need another job for the first year to keep yourself afloat.

I'm really only interested in hearing from current WTS traders about anything I've mentioned above. Specifically, I'd like to know about the interview. Are they really that selective? And if so, what do they look for in their new traders? I am scheduled for an interview with them next week.

Wow what a great company how do I sign up. I hope Barron dosen't delete this thread because you didn't post your real name and are shilling for the company. So barron no worries this is owner of WTS Simmon Liberati aka "the crook" who is doing this. No need to delete this thread when you have his real name.

Posted by dpt444 on 07-17-09 03:40 AM:

Re: Re: WTS Proprietary Trading Group

Quote from swiftmike99:

Wow what a great company how do I sign up. I hope Barron dosen't delete this thread because you didn't post your real name and are shilling for the company. So barron no worries this is owner of WTS Simmon Liberati aka "the crook" who is doing this. No need to delete this thread when you have his real name.

Hi Swiftmike

I actually attended the open house last night and was impressed after meeting everyone and what they offered traders. I have a friend that trades there and seems to like it so far. I have scheduled an interview while I was there. You don't seem to thrilled about this company, is there something I should know about?

thanks

Posted by exoticoption924 on 07-17-09 05:30 AM:

WTS Proprietary Trading Group

Quote from swiftmike99:

Wow what a great company how do I sign up. I hope Barron dosen't delete this thread because you didn't post your real name and are shilling for the company. So barron no worries this is owner of WTS Simmon Liberati aka "the crook" who is doing this. No need to delete this thread when you have his real name.

This is just ridiculous. The majority of the posts here about prop firms are absolutely negative. While some of the negativity may be justified in some cases, the members of this site have been going overboard.

Honestly, just STFU unless you can articulate a strong argument based on actual facts. People here are so bitter its just counterproductive.

I was just one of the attendees of the open house who is very interested in trading. I posted a detailed account of the presentation to get feedback from CURRENT WTS Traders. If you have some FACTUAL information about WTS that differs from what I have posted, then by all means share it. But these baseless negative posts need to be removed by the moderator.

Posted by dragon1949 on 07-17-09 08:36 AM:

I am in training now in SanFrancisco WTS and I just want to say WTS is awesome for a new trader like me. BTW, because the owner and some top employees of WTS worked for Swift before, it is no surprise to me that the user Swiftmike always publish some negative comment about WTS. And to be honest, his comments did make me a little bit nervous until I've been through half way training. Dude, you really need to stop spreading hate.

Posted by Szeven on 07-17-09 05:28 PM:

This is so just hilarious for so many reasons.

First of all, props to WTS for creating such a stir regarding their company and training. The difference seems to be that Title or Swift never expanded to no deposit prop in the States. Seeing as Peter Beck is such a good businessman, there must be a reason. Either Simon doesnt know it, doesnt care, or is smarter than PB (not likely).

Secondly, (and even i am guilty of this) its not 'no deposit prop'. Its 1500 deposit. Its just a game of statistics. They make it sound like a job, so that when you suck, they can kick you out. I guarantee the 1500 pays for all your losses, a few months of sterling, and some or all of the firms office expenses. Sure they might lose some on more, less on others, but you wont go there, get a $500 stop, and lose 5k. You will likely get a small stop (who knows what it is these days) of say $50 and go from there, upping it as you get better.

Thirdly, LOL! at HFT acronym. That is just hilarious. Thats like calling a garbage man a sanitation engineer or a cashier a FTA (Financial Transaction Associate)... its just a load of shit to make it sound better.

Bottom line: the game hasnt changed. WTS is revolutionizing nothing. It always has been, and always will be statistics. WTS might think they have some bullshit gimmick or whatever right now, but believe me, nothing lasts. 1 or 2 out of 10 will make it, yes, 1 out of 20 or so will make a decent living. 1 out of 100 will get rich. Its worth the shot if you love it. This was true in 2002, 2005 2009 and will be true in 2012. (unless the world ends!)

Good luck

Posted by Anaconda on 07-17-09 05:40 PM:

Re: WTS Proprietary Trading Group

Quote from exoticoption924:

Are they really that selective?

LOL, no. It's all about the $1500. Unless you show some obvious signs that you serious problems, you're hired as long as you're willing to pay the $1500.

Posted by swiftmike99 on 07-17-09 05:55 PM:

Quote from Szeven:

Bottom line: the game hasnt changed. WTS is revolutionizing nothing.

Good luck

This is where you wrong. They revolutionized schilling. They created lots of accounts few months ago and are just using them now to schill, so it dosn't look like a new account that is schilling. Its more like look this account has been for 6 months and has 2 posts, it must be credible.

Posted by nitro on 07-17-09 06:32 PM:

I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Other than the $1500 training fee, I don't see a single thing wrong with this deal.

Even the $1500 training fee, depending on what it is and how good the training is, could be worth it, but i doubt it. If it can be waived for traders with experience, this is a perfectly good deal. Alternatively, if the $1500 was used as a cushion against loses, that also is a perfectly good deal. In other words $1500 gets you training and is used as a split on loses. So if you lose $100, $50 comes from them, and $50 comes from you, leaving $1450. If you quit, you get some percent of whatever money is left back, say 75% (nothing to do with gains, those are split 50:50).

I am very attracted by the commission rate as I have a model that requires it. Assuming I can use an ATS, heck I may do this myself.

__________________
"You have to fix your roof when it's sunny outside" - JFK

Posted by krazyanyway on 07-17-09 07:22 PM:

Quote from nitro:

I am very attracted by the commission rate as I have a model that requires it. Assuming I can use an ATS, heck I may do this myself.

Why not go for a firm that can offer the same commissions with 70% payout ?

Posted by Szeven on 07-17-09 07:27 PM:

Quote from nitro:

I don't know what you guys are complaining about. Other than the $1500 training fee, I don't see a single thing wrong with this deal.

Even the $1500 training fee, depending on what it is and how good the training is, could be worth it, but i doubt it. If it can be waived for traders with experience, this is a perfectly good deal. Alternatively, if the $1500 was used as a cushion against loses, that also is a perfectly good deal. In other words $1500 gets you training and is used as a split on loses. So if you lose $100, $50 comes from them, and $50 comes from you, leaving $1450. If you quit, you get some percent of whatever money is left back, say 75% (nothing to do with gains, those are split 50:50).

I am very attracted by the commission rate as I have a model that requires it. Assuming I can use an ATS, heck I may do this myself.

The only problem with that is that you are in fantasy land. Its not a cushion against losses. Dont confuse fantasy with reality.

The commission rate is also not abnormal. JC trading will give you a way better deal than this, and has much more reputable owners.

Posted by nitro on 07-17-09 07:40 PM:

Quote from Szeven:

The only problem with that is that you are in fantasy land. Its not a cushion against losses. Dont confuse fantasy with reality.

The commission rate is also not abnormal. JC trading will give you a way better deal than this, and has much more reputable owners.

So you are telling me that if I go to them and say, I have been trading for ten years, I am an options market maker and a professional programmer, they will want to train me?

__________________
"You have to fix your roof when it's sunny outside" - JFK

Posted by risktaker on 07-17-09 07:48 PM:

I asked Swift a while ago about either starting an office or becoming a trader.

It sounded like they limit your losses to $50/day! At least for a while. I couldn't imagine losing $50 and being shut down for the whole day so I left it at that. Also, they mentioned it's easier with opening trader offices in other countries because no licenses are required there.

For example, if I wanted to trade from the US I'd need a license. But was told I could go over to Canada & open an office, be up & running in 2 mos. & nobody would need any licenses. Only a 2 week course for 1-2 management people at Swift's office.

Overall, their commish was attractive but their insistence on the $50/day shutoff killed the idea for me. Maybe for Chinese it's good.

Posted by nitro on 07-17-09 07:57 PM:

The $50 a day issue can be resolved if you put up a little bit of money I am guessing.

Quote from risktaker:

I asked Swift a while ago about either starting an office or becoming a trader.

It sounded like they limit your losses to $50/day! At least for a while. I couldn't imagine losing $50 and being shut down for the whole day so I left it at that. Also, they mentioned it's easier with opening trader offices in other countries because no licenses are required there.

For example, if I wanted to trade from the US I'd need a license. But was told I could go over to Canada & open an office, be up & running in 2 mos. & nobody would need any licenses. Only a 2 week course for 1-2 management people at Swift's office.

Overall, their commish was attractive but their insistence on the $50/day shutoff killed the idea for me. Maybe for Chinese it's good.

__________________
"You have to fix your roof when it's sunny outside" - JFK

Posted by Szeven on 07-17-09 08:14 PM:

Quote from nitro:

The $50 a day issue can be resolved if you put up a little bit of money I am guessing.

All im saying is that if thats what you want: 20 cents per 1k commission, split deal, sterling API, there are better places to do it. Why take unnecessary risk.

Posted by Copernicus on 07-17-09 08:21 PM:

Quote from risktaker:

I asked Swift a while ago about either starting an office or becoming a trader.

It sounded like they limit your losses to $50/day! At least for a while. I couldn't imagine losing $50 and being shut down for the whole day so I left it at that. Also, they mentioned it's easier with opening trader offices in other countries because no licenses are required there.

For example, if I wanted to trade from the US I'd need a license. But was told I could go over to Canada & open an office, be up & running in 2 mos. & nobody would need any licenses. Only a 2 week course for 1-2 management people at Swift's office.

Overall, their commish was attractive but their insistence on the $50/day shutoff killed the idea for me. Maybe for Chinese it's good.

just out of curiosity, how much capital did they ask for to open a foreign branch?

Posted by TokyoGhetto on 07-17-09 08:25 PM:

Szeven if you could so kind to PM me a list of Canadian prop firms that offer the deal that you just mentioned.

I would prefer no deposit, but a deposit is fine if it means access to more BP. Prefer to trade from an office but remote is fine as well.

I am a Toronto based trader. I have traded with swift and title, makes me think if I should go back.

I followed your posts in the PnL thread when you posted, congratulations on your success.

Thanks for your time.

Posted by nitro on 07-17-09 08:33 PM:

Quote from krazyanyway:

Why not go for a firm that can offer the same commissions with 70% payout ?

With no upfront money? We should compare apples to apples. Of course, $50 a day capped loses is ridiculously low, but you know what, make money trading odd lots with that commission structure and prove you have something where they give you more BP and up your loss cap, and it makes sense.

I could easily trade my ATS on 20 or 30 shares each on 10 symbols and prove my point.

__________________
"You have to fix your roof when it's sunny outside" - JFK

Posted by nitro on 07-17-09 08:38 PM:

Quote from Szeven:

All im saying is that if thats what you want: 20 cents per 1k commission, split deal, sterling API, there are better places to do it. Why take unnecessary risk.

Well, I did not know of JCTrading. I will give them a call.

__________________
"You have to fix your roof when it's sunny outside" - JFK

Posted by risktaker on 07-17-09 08:44 PM:

I asked. I said I'd put up $50-100K. The answer was they're not gonna change the $50 loss limit for the initial xx months and some 'track record' is built.

Felt too much like I'd be under their thumb. No thanks!

Quote from nitro:

The $50 a day issue can be resolved if you put up a little bit of money I am guessing.

Posted by risktaker on 07-17-09 08:47 PM:

I think it it was like $10-20K fee to them & then you'd front all the office setup expenses. That wasn't an issue.

I think they 'need' local branch 'ownership' is for the recruiting of traders & general physical oversight of the 'office'. These guys appear to control the whole ship remotely from their HQ.

Quote from Copernicus:

just out of curiosity, how much capital did they ask for to open a foreign branch?

Posted by goldenarm on 07-18-09 12:08 AM:

The $50 loss limit is actually reasonable because in the beginning, WTS will force you to trade stocks under $10 with high liquidity for 100-200 shares a clip. If you lose $50 trading Citigroup or AIG for small size, then you're really letting your trades go against you. It's meant to teach discipline and get your feet wet. As you get better, then you're allowed to trade larger positions and your stop limits will increase.

WTS won't let you trade volatile stocks like GS or AAPL where you can lose $50 in a second.

Posted by goldenarm on 07-18-09 12:40 AM:

The WTS recruiting method is simple: flood the floor with newbies during the first month and start weeding them out during the second and third months. They won't wait until the $1500 "training fee" is depleted. They can get rid of you after the first week if they don't believe you will pan out. That's why the $1500 is not described as being risk capital. It's advertised as a one time training fee to learn the WTS system.

Out of each training group, maybe 1/3 will remain by month three. Repeat the recruiting cycle until you are left with profitable traders who will only trade the WTS way: meaning only trading stocks under $10. Unfortunately, even the very best WTS-trained traders only make $40-60k a year after their profit split. Most of the other profitable traders make less than minimum wage.

The $1500 fees are actually a revenue stream for WTS. That is why they are aggressively recruiting. If they could hold an open house every week, they would. Some of the fees are set aside for "risk capital" but I imagine the majority of it is used as working capital since they don't make enough money off of trading revenues to cover their overhead. WTS has a very pricey location with state of the art equipment.

In case you're wondering, I spent 4 months at WTS before I was "fired".

Posted by exoticoption924 on 07-20-09 04:55 AM:

Simon Librati

I kept seeing the name "Simon Librati" on any postings about WTS. So I googled him and found the following You Tube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbazV7vMJhA

What I realized after seeing his picture is that the presenter at the recent NYC Open House, to whom I referred in the original posting (1st post of this thread) was in fact Simon Librati!

Again, I have yet to see any factual basis for putting down WTS, or calling Simon a crook, etc...Not trying to shill for WTS or Simon for that matter. As someone who is interested in possibly trading with them I'd like to know what the deal is here.

Incidentally, Swiftmike and possibly even Elitetrader.com are opening themselves up to a defamation lawsuit. I'm surprised that the Admin on this site has not just removed him and his postings off the site.

Posted by swiftmike99 on 07-20-09 09:34 AM:

Re: Simon Librati

Quote from exoticoption924:

I kept seeing the name "Simon Librati" on any postings about WTS. So I googled him and found the following You Tube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbazV7vMJhA

What I realized after seeing his picture is that the presenter at the recent NYC Open House, to whom I referred in the original posting (1st post of this thread) was in fact Simon Librati!

Again, I have yet to see any factual basis for putting down WTS, or calling Simon a crook, etc...Not trying to shill for WTS or Simon for that matter. As someone who is interested in possibly trading with them I'd like to know what the deal is here.

Incidentally, Swiftmike and possibly even Elitetrader.com are opening themselves up to a defamation lawsuit. I'm surprised that the Admin on this site has not just removed him and his postings off the site.

Welcome back Simon

. How many ET ID do you really have?

Posted by Hockey Trader on 07-20-09 12:28 PM:

Re: Simon Librati

Quote from exoticoption924:

I kept seeing the name "Simon Librati" on any postings about WTS. So I googled him and found the following You Tube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbazV7vMJhA

What I realized after seeing his picture is that the presenter at the recent NYC Open House, to whom I referred in the original posting (1st post of this thread) was in fact Simon Librati!

Again, I have yet to see any factual basis for putting down WTS, or calling Simon a crook, etc...Not trying to shill for WTS or Simon for that matter. As someone who is interested in possibly trading with them I'd like to know what the deal is here.

Incidentally, Swiftmike and possibly even Elitetrader.com are opening themselves up to a defamation lawsuit. I'm surprised that the Admin on this site has not just removed him and his postings off the site.

Are you really this dense? The amount of negative feedback this firm has seen on here is alarming enough. It is not one guy or two- you are seriously talking about dozens of people who were rubbed the wrong way by this guy or his company. And I am sure many who do not even know about ET. Your last paragraph is sad. Someone can't express their opinion on a trading company? Most posts are perfectly fine and are simply out of experience.

Posted by Anaconda on 07-20-09 02:49 PM:

Quote from goldenarm:

The $1500 fees are actually a revenue stream for WTS.

It's probably their biggest revenue stream. Same goes for Velez Capital and any other firm which runs a similar model. Even though these firms are using a regulatory loophole to turn risk deposits into training fees, some of them keep it legit and give you a pre-determined loss amount equal to your training fee. The rest are just bucket shops.

Posted by exoticoption924 on 07-20-09 06:30 PM:

Re: Re: Simon Librati

Quote from Hockey Trader:

Are you really this dense? The amount of negative feedback this firm has seen on here is alarming enough. It is not one guy or two- you are seriously talking about dozens of people who were rubbed the wrong way by this guy or his company. And I am sure many who do not even know about ET. Your last paragraph is sad. Someone can't express their opinion on a trading company? Most posts are perfectly fine and are simply out of experience.

Are you really that easily convinced? So you see some negative posts about a company from some disgruntled individuals that couldn't make it as a trader. Moreover, these posts lack any indicia of credibility. Simply saying that someone is a "crook" is useless. Why is that person a "crook?" What did he do specifically? Are there criminal and/or civil proceedings against him?

You're also forgetting about the law of numbers. When you're dealing with thousands of people of course you will have a number of them who wash out and/or be angry at the firm.

Expressing an opinion on a trading company is perfectly fine. However, it should be done professionally and intelligently. For example, if I want to complain that firm XYZ doesn't pay out their traders in a timely fashion I would point to specific evidence that this was the case. If you don't like their training program, say that, and explain why in a professional way. Otherwise, you run the risk of defaming a firm or person. I have yet to see any specific factual allegations against WTS or Simon Librati.

Posted by mtl_trader on 07-22-09 07:47 PM:

Re: Simon Librati

Quote from exoticoption924:

I kept seeing the name "Simon Librati" on any postings about WTS. So I googled him and found the following You Tube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbazV7vMJhA

What I realized after seeing his picture is that the presenter at the recent NYC Open House, to whom I referred in the original posting (1st post of this thread) was in fact Simon Librati!

Again, I have yet to see any factual basis for putting down WTS, or calling Simon a crook, etc...Not trying to shill for WTS or Simon for that matter. As someone who is interested in possibly trading with them I'd like to know what the deal is here.

Incidentally, Swiftmike and possibly even Elitetrader.com are opening themselves up to a defamation lawsuit. I'm surprised that the Admin on this site has not just removed him and his postings off the site.

Rob Lurie (the reporter) did a report with simon at swifttrade back in 2001 (when simon was BM). guess its easy to get free publicity when you're friends with a local reporter....

Posted by Rhue on 07-28-09 04:10 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Simon Librati

Quote from exoticoption924:

Are you really that easily convinced? So you see some negative posts about a company from some disgruntled individuals that couldn't make it as a trader. Moreover, these posts lack any indicia of credibility. Simply saying that someone is a "crook" is useless. Why is that person a "crook?" What did he do specifically? Are there criminal and/or civil proceedings against him?

You're also forgetting about the law of numbers. When you're dealing with thousands of people of course you will have a number of them who wash out and/or be angry at the firm.

Expressing an opinion on a trading company is perfectly fine. However, it should be done professionally and intelligently. For example, if I want to complain that firm XYZ doesn't pay out their traders in a timely fashion I would point to specific evidence that this was the case. If you don't like their training program, say that, and explain why in a professional way. Otherwise, you run the risk of defaming a firm or person. I have yet to see any specific factual allegations against WTS or Simon Librati.

http://www.globenewswire.com/newsro...s.html?d=118227

there was also the swift fiasco: http://www.mcgill.ca/files/arbitration/Librati.pdf

I have nothing against WTS, just sharing information that has already been put up on this forum.

Posted by Eight on 07-28-09 06:17 AM:

Re: Simon Librati

Quote from exoticoption924:

I kept seeing the name "Simon Librati" on any postings about WTS. So I googled him and found the following You Tube clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbazV7vMJhA

What I realized after seeing his picture is that the presenter at the recent NYC Open House, to whom I referred in the original posting (1st post of this thread) was in fact Simon Librati!

Again, I have yet to see any factual basis for putting down WTS, or calling Simon a crook, etc...Not trying to shill for WTS or Simon for that matter. As someone who is interested in possibly trading with them I'd like to know what the deal is here.

Incidentally, Swiftmike and possibly even Elitetrader.com are opening themselves up to a defamation lawsuit. I'm surprised that the Admin on this site has not just removed him and his postings off the site.

Man, you are a real piece of work. Come to ET with no posts at all, tell people to STFU, threaten lawsuits... do you get drunk and then wake up with bruises and you can't recall how you got them? LOL

Believe me, we see this shill shit all the time, the worse the economy gets the more it happens so don't start thinking you are SPECIAL or anything

Posted by hippietrader on 08-02-09 12:06 AM:

Quote from Anaconda:

It's probably their biggest revenue stream. Same goes for Velez Capital and any other firm which runs a similar model. Even though these firms are using a regulatory loophole to turn risk deposits into training fees, some of them keep it legit and give you a pre-determined loss amount equal to your training fee. The rest are just bucket shops.

You risk your capital, your time and energy. The firm takes no risk whatever. This is now the new deal with many prop firms. They don't have to ever refund your fees even if you never lose a dime of their money. The smaller fee of TWS allows them to get more traders and churn them. Like you said, the trader can be dismissed after a week or two, may be while still paper trading. WTS gets to the $1500 no matter what.

With the shortage of jobs to go around, soon many jobs will come with a hefty training or enrollment fee to get a job at company! They will start calling helping you with your business. You business may be to sell their product, etc.

WTS wants only $1500, much easier for newbies to come up with. Oliver Velez now 12k and SMF, it is 10k upfront. These are non-refundable training fees.

Posted by Zentrickster on 08-02-09 02:59 AM:

Seriously looks like a conman. Elite will root out the truth. Gonna wish they never shilled here.

Posted by Zentrickster on 08-02-09 03:04 AM:

Quote from Szeven:

All im saying is that if thats what you want: 20 cents per 1k commission, split deal, sterling API, there are better places to do it. Why take unnecessary risk.

it's all fantasy. Relax

Posted by Copernicus on 08-05-09 05:29 AM:

which markets can one trade at WTS?

outside of US, also LSE and CME futures, am i correct on that?

Posted by dodobird4545 on 08-07-09 04:34 AM:

Every prop firm claims to be "selective"

Truth is that if you're putting up money they hire everyone.

The only selective firms are those which fully back you.

Posted by hippietrader on 08-07-09 09:30 PM:

Any chance of working from remote after the training and proving oneself on sim?

Posted by puretruth on 08-07-09 09:49 PM:

Quote from hippietrader:

Y The smaller fee of TWS allows them to get more traders and churn them.

TWS from Interactive brokers ? Is that the platform they are using ?

Posted by BostonTrader339 on 08-07-09 10:07 PM:

these places are churn n burn houses set up to rip new traders off on commission spreads and using their deposits to trade their own capital, nothing more.
they won't teach you shit about trading and they sure as fuck won't feel any remorse when you blow out your $1500 in the first few weeks, knowing they're hedging against every trade you try to make.
makes me sick these places, these conversations.
someone really should start a better prop firm and cut these scumbags out of existance.

Posted by dodobird4545 on 08-07-09 10:58 PM:

Actually retard this firm charges 90 cents per thousand shares which is ridiculously low. The 1500 is for training not trading. The training is outsourced and a three week course, then the firm actually backs you. I have a friend down 50k that trades there and he's fully trading their money.

Obviously you are broke and taken advantage of by shops, but this particular one has over five thousand traders and does about 4 billion shares a month.

Posted by BostonTrader339 on 08-07-09 11:01 PM:

Quote from dodobird4545:

Actually retard this firm charges 90 cents per thousand shares which is ridiculously low. The 1500 is for training not trading. The training is outsourced and a three week course, then the firm actually backs you. I have a friend down 50k that trades there and he's fully trading their money.

Obviously you are broke and taken advantage of by shops, but this particular one has over five thousand traders and does about 4 billion shares a month.

obviously. of course you'd know that.
db.

Posted by bcn_trader on 08-18-09 03:30 AM:

Quote from dodobird4545:

Actually retard this firm charges 90 cents per thousand shares which is ridiculously low. The 1500 is for training not trading. The training is outsourced and a three week course, then the firm actually backs you. I have a friend down 50k that trades there and he's fully trading their money.

Obviously you are broke and taken advantage of by shops, but this particular one has over five thousand traders and does about 4 billion shares a month.

Actually they are around three thousand traders. Volume is aproximately right.

Posted by BostonTrader339 on 08-18-09 03:35 AM:

Quote from bcn_trader:

Actually they are around three thousand traders. Volume is aproximately right.

cool.
thanks for telling me that.

Posted by bcn_trader on 08-18-09 03:37 AM:

Re: Re: Simon Librati

Quote from swiftmike99:

Welcome back Simon . How many ET ID do you really have?

It's very funny how you keep posting against Simon Librati and WTS.

In fact, every post of yours is basically to critisize either one or both of them.

How creative or constructive...

Obviously by your name, you are somehow related to SwiftTrade. That's why you might hate Simon, by the same reason all three SwiftTrade offices in my city, Barcelona, are sooo pissed off. Also Title offices are very worried. Most of their traders are moving to WTS, hehe.

Take care and don't be so mad. It's not healthy...

Posted by bcn_trader on 08-18-09 03:49 AM:

Quote from swiftmike99:

This is where you wrong. They revolutionized schilling. They created lots of accounts few months ago and are just using them now to schill, so it dosn't look like a new account that is schilling. Its more like look this account has been for 6 months and has 2 posts, it must be credible.

Again, you look like a master genious...

Above all defects a man can have, one of which I hate most is when someone believes he knows everything.

So boring.

Posted by Gubinec on 08-18-09 04:05 AM:

Quote from Copernicus:

which markets can one trade at WTS?

outside of US, also LSE and CME futures, am i correct on that?

When I was there, they said we could also trade the London market in the future and options. Don't know about now.

Quote from dodobird4545:

Actually retard this firm charges 90 cents per thousand shares which is ridiculously low. The 1500 is for training not trading. The training is outsourced and a three week course, then the firm actually backs you.

It's already 90c/1k shares?

Back in early June when I was still there, they charged 20 cents / 1k.

And it's funny how every WTS thread rolls down to being a name calling match between swifttrader and Simon Librati / WTS supporters.

Reminds me of my thread on WTS

Posted by bcn_trader on 08-18-09 04:15 AM:

Quote from Gubinec:

When I was there, they said we could also trade the London market in the future and options. Don't know about now.

It's already 90c/1k shares?

Back in early June when I was still there, they charged 20 cents / 1k.

And it's funny how every WTS thread rolls down to being a name calling match between swifttrader and Simon Librati / WTS supporters.

Reminds me of my thread on WTS

It's still at 20 cents per 1000.

And it's true, this fighting WTS vs SwiftTrade is nonsense in a threat called "WTS Proprietary Trading Group"...

Posted by BostonTrader339 on 08-18-09 04:37 AM:

Quote from bcn_trader:

It's still at 20 cents per 1000.

And it's true, this fighting WTS vs SwiftTrade is nonsense in a threat called "WTS Proprietary Trading Group"...

maybe a third player needs to step in and cut both heads off this dragon in one slice...

Posted by ggsn1 on 09-10-09 05:27 PM:

Yup, same bullshit. Swiftmike and all the shill crazy hate mongers aren't being forthright. I've been trading with 3 big reputable firms (ones that use the anvil, redi, and echopro) and have been up 5 years and down 4 years trading my own money while these firms have made a few hundred thousand on commissions. What nobody talks about on these boards is that most guys in those firms as most "veterans" on this board don't consistently make money. And almost all new traders are going to lose money.
Of all the guys who started couple of months ago in san francisco in first wts group, they're all there. I have heard that SF is better than NY.
If you can get into trading and see if you have the mettle for it with a $1500 total investment and the firm passes through .20/1000 sh clearing, it's a no-brainer. Any new trader trading their own account is gonna lose $1500 guaranteed if not a lot more. I'm experienced, but I'm gonna be in the next training. Go to a WTS office and have a trader show you how their nybf and algo routes get filled before arca and the normal shit. While it works that little edge is all I need.
ps Please don't call me Simon. Do you REALLY think every pro WTS thread is Simon? Don't answer that.

Posted by Gubinec on 09-10-09 05:44 PM:

Quote from ggsn1:

Go to a WTS office and have a trader show you how their nybf and algo routes get filled before arca and the normal shit. While it works that little edge is all I need.

What the hell are you talking about? NYBF charges more than any other route as far as I remember so where's the edge in that, and even at that, you still have to wait to get filled. Sometimes I'd get filled on ARCA faster than on NYFB, and that bitch also fills you partially over time, not all at once.

What are the "algo" routes you're talking 'bout? If it's dark pools, then filled you'll get shit. I remember configuring every key to a dark pool, and when it came to fill me, I had to post an order on 4-5 dark pools to get in, and even then, I got filled on all of them at once at the same time.

Dark pools are the biggest, most over-hyped bullshit in WTS presentations/training. There ain't really nothing advantageous in dark pools.

I'm not trying to put down WTS here, on the contrary I was accused of shilling for them when I made a thread on them after getting fired in June.

One funny moment that stuck with me from the training days was Clark was showing us the real-time P/L of their traders all over the world and these was one trader in the red thousands of dollars with over 70000 shares of some $50 or $60 stock and he said "that's Simon, pretend you didn't see this guys".

Posted by ggsn1 on 09-12-09 12:23 AM:

We all know there's no holy grail so the nybf and algo routes won't make all traders profitable I'm sure. Obviously, why you were fired and as you said before you weren't following the rules. I just have a buddy who was a decent trader who says the routes get him filled before arca, nyse, nsdq and that he's just a better trader now. There's no free lunch, but these little tools help.

Posted by zdreg on 09-12-09 12:53 AM:

rule changes will sooner or later ko this game.

Posted by ggsn1 on 09-12-09 07:40 PM:

Unfortunately, I think you're right.

Posted by blackmamba on 09-29-09 02:00 AM:

bump

Posted by Anaconda on 09-29-09 08:00 PM:

Re: VCM vs WTS

Quote from ekwtrading:

I just read all replies and I saw whole bunch of haters who cant get ppl to pay them 1500 consistently. get a life.
like someone mentioned, for a new trader, this is one sweat deal. I wont recruit anyone without licenses, min 5k deposit and a great resume like how every major prop shop would do. and if I do, I wont start them at 20c/1000. what the heck am i going to make to carry a new trader. Those who are putting all the negative comments obviously never ran any business in their life.

The educational trading model like WTS or VCM are meant for those who want start trading but needs a hand. If might be more benefitial than just signing up with a prop shop as a starter if you are trained by right ppl. Prop shop wont even train you or only to the minimum.

anyways, here are some info I know about WTS, hope will help if you plan to join them.

-Much better deal than VCM for that they ask only 1500 otherwise same 20c/1000shr. But the training is not continuous. You will not have guidiance during the trading hours. You are limited to a handful of stocks to trade.
you are only to scalp pennies in and out. you are not there to trade momentum. They will eat your loss but you will be let go if you excess loss limit.

Overall, its better than VCM. VCM will start you with only 1shr to trade and $20 to loss. what a deal consider you pay him $13000 upfront.

I am sorry but did you just use VCM as a reputable benchmark to evaluate WTS?

A clear sign you do not know WTF you're talking about as VCM is a scam shop.

WTS has a few small tricks to teach newbies but it is pretty obvious that these "tricks" have minimal benefit & applicability. There is nothing wrong with teaching a few marginal tricks here and there but staking your whole training on it is not in the best interest of a new and aspiring trader. I think someone mentioned they teach tape reading too as a base, which is a very outdated style of trading.

Posted by Anaconda on 09-29-09 09:39 PM:

ewk,

You seem somewhat new to the US equity "prop" industry.

VCM is a scam shop. Just leave it at that. You can search this forum or the internet in general to find out why.

WTS is not scam shop but it is a chop shop. Their overzealous sales pitch is enough of a clue. Their strategies, when scrutinized confirm it. It's pretty obvious they make their best override from the dark pool route, hence they preach it so much. Unlike VCM, I think WTS is an ok option for a newbie as long as they understand that WTS does not hold the new guy's best interest.

Posted by Anaconda on 09-30-09 04:08 PM:

Quote from ekwtrading:

Oh I am experienced trust me. and didnt your family taught you manner growing up? Not sure why you get so personal with my response to this thread, but I do see you on my tail for whatever your reason is. From reading your last reply, we are actually on same page. I am not here to praise VCM nor WTS, but to provide information someone is looking for. Isnt that what the thread is? or is this where you express your perosnal opinions and put up your trash?? You sound like you have traded with both firms and speaking from the first hand as victim. In that case, best luck with your trading career.

Let's make something clear. Your post exclaiming your grandiose opinion is wrong and misleading. I called you on it. You do not know the NYC "prop" industry too well, it's a bit obvious when you refer to VCM as a benchmark for anything other than a scam shop.

On top of it you insult posters who do not feel right about giving up a training fee to a company that uses car salesmen tactics and misleads about the true nature of their operation.

I am not getting personal with you. Judging from your reaction so far, if I did get personal with you, your keyboard would be wet from your tears. And no, I have never traded under VCM or WTS, nor would I. I do know Charles Vaccaro however, and I am also very familiar with the business model that WTS employs.

Posted by MaverickNYC on 11-13-09 01:31 PM:

wst

btw i dont think any shop will make you a good trader....i honestly think that comes down to you.

BUT first things first when looking for a shop....go with the shop that has PRODUCERS (250k and up guys)...guys who have been around awhile who are making money...

ONLY way to know if shop is good....because good traders wont stay at a bad shop...only new traders stay at a bad shop, cause they dont know better or think they will get better.

this isnt the case with WTS...

Posted by MaverickNYC on 11-13-09 01:39 PM:

WTS TRAININg

guys here is WTS trading program

History of the stock exchanges
What is a ECN
Who are the ECN
How much to ECN rebate or charge
Dark Pools (you actually never use any dark pools on the floor, but its a week of training)

and your done....set up your hot keys...take 100 share position and have fun...

really training is THE most PATHETIC thing ive seen....if you have NO idea about the stock market...then maybe this is good for you...but trust me....ANY TRADING BOOK WILL TEACH YOU 100x more

the training is the real scam of WTS...because nothing about trading is taught...

training really is just the most basic stuff...for $1500 (3000 actually gross)

Posted by swiftmike99 on 11-13-09 01:49 PM:

Re: wst

Quote from MaverickNYC:

btw i dont think any shop will make you a good trader....i honestly think that comes down to you.

BUT first things first when looking for a shop....go with the shop that has PRODUCERS (250k and up guys)...guys who have been around awhile who are making money...

ONLY way to know if shop is good....because good traders wont stay at a bad shop...only new traders stay at a bad shop, cause they dont know better or think they will get better.

this isnt the case with WTS...

Serves you right for not reading about them on elitetrader. If you are so stupid as to read these posts and then still sign up because of their clever comebacks on these boards you deserve to loose your 3k and more. Hope you get banned from this site for your stupidity.

Posted by MaverickNYC on 11-13-09 01:52 PM:

swiftmike

wow

Mike, i didnt lose 3k out of my pocket...i just waisted time...

and to think i support your view of them and then you bash me? thats just RETARTED...

good luck swiftmike.....

Posted by MaverickNYC on 11-19-09 10:40 PM:

"negative FACTS" hahah

WTS removed my post and then i got a inbox regarding it from them.

from WTS:

I respect your opion about the training program and I have no problem with you posting negative facts about that.

What i think is funny, is he WROTE "negative FACTS", cause they know its true....its just a scam...

will repost my previous review of WTS again shortly.....

Posted by MaverickNYC on 11-19-09 11:14 PM:

REPOST

ITS FUNNY HOW I PREDICTED THEY WOULD DELETE THE POST...THIS IS A REPOST WITHOUT THE PERSONAL ATTACK ON DEREK PET FROG.

The truth is this is just a training fee factory.

They charge you 1500 USD for training, and that comes from your first 3000 of profit with them.

You must make 400 a month trading, to cover the 200 no feature sterling pro, that crashes ALL the time.

You will pay to use Boston exchange, even when it is suppose to offer a rebate.

Your check will never be on time.

Your trainer has never traded more than 10,000 shares in his life, total.

And now they are putting training on video tapes to make it more like a factory and save more costs.

only good person is Jean Luc....but he has surrounded himself with idiots....actually chet in nyc is nice....

all wst want you to do is scalp....because its a zero sum game....they dont believe in any other trading. They talk about bringing in other statagies to teach, but never happens

Your better off buying Active trading for dummies, than waisting 1500 (actually 3k) on there training and all the time waisted doing scalping JUST to pay fee's

they dont care about anything but bring them in, churn and let them leave.....

Whats sad is i liked WTS because of Jean Luc. because of him IT HAD a chance....but i think his vision is being clouded by the idiots he has around him....

don't waste your time...no reason to go here....honestly...

oh ya, this post will be probably deleted by them....but will repost...for the simple fact i hate seeing people SCAMMED

btw in montreal only about 3 to 4 paychecks are handed out a month to traders...out of maybe 20 some traders....and all 3 of them started somewhere else....

Posted by swiftmike99 on 11-20-09 09:49 AM:

Re: "negative FACTS" hahah

Quote from MaverickNYC:

WTS removed my post and then i got a inbox regarding it from them.

from WTS:

I respect your opion about the training program and I have no problem with you posting negative facts about that.

What i think is funny, is he WROTE "negative FACTS", cause they know its true....its just a scam...

will repost my previous review of WTS again shortly.....

How did you get an inboxl from them? Did you get inbox from moderator here? How can WTS delete posts here?

Posted by MaverickNYC on 11-22-09 09:19 PM:

It was a employee of WTS who inboxed me, and yes WTS is able to have negative post removed.

When i was working for them, i heard on at least two occasions, them upset about a post regarding them and the scams they pull, but before i could check it from home that night...POOF the post was gone...

BTW i'm amazed at the level of thievery these guys from WTS will go to. I have read about 3 inbox's from people whom work for them or worked for them...all same...all about how WTS puts in a FEE or charges FEES that take money out of traders checks....

lastly: I'M not someone who spends his times on boards like this, just this is one case i think my two cents might help, i dont want to see another person THINK WTS will be a good place to trade from and then after 6 months like me, feel like he just waisted and was lied to for 6 straight months....

Posted by Mr Super Trader on 02-22-12 10:17 PM:

I know this is an old thread. I just contacted WTS trading firm to get some information. I got ext 209 i guess the guys name is Ray.
What a jerkoff right off the back he gave me an attitude.

He said who are you if your going to call in you should state who you
are. So i did and then he bluntly say's what do you want. I simply replied i was interested in becoming a prop trader . He replies with a complete attitude and starts going off on me about me wanting to open up a branch. I just simply had to let him have it. The dip shit hung up.

I figured he had a bad trading day or has to deal with upset people all day.

Unfortunately this is my first post. I just wanted to give you a heads up before you choose this firm.

__________________
I live to trade not trade to live

Posted by cstfx on 02-23-12 01:25 AM:

the resident WTS shill should be along shortly to respond

Posted by Mr Super Trader on 02-23-12 01:41 AM:

An apology would be nice!

I actually own a business unfortunately my construction business got hit hard a few years ago. No matter how stressed or how bad of a day i had i never not once treated somebody the way he talked to me.

__________________
I live to trade not trade to live

Posted by operator on 02-23-12 02:28 PM:

Most people that work in the "deposit" Prop world are animals. Trade Support reps at most firms are filled with attitude. They think they are working on the Prop Desk at GS....

Posted by Mr Super Trader on 02-23-12 07:55 PM:

Quote from operator:

Most people that work in the "deposit" Prop world are animals. Trade Support reps at most firms are filled with attitude. They think they are working on the Prop Desk at GS....

Ha ha, yeah i thought this guy watched Boiler Room one to many times.

Thanks for the enlightenment. I just figured if they are going to offer a service it would be smart to put your ego in your pocket and treat a potential new client with some respect.

__________________
I live to trade not trade to live

Posted by oilfxpro on 02-25-12 07:38 AM:

Re: WTS Proprietary Trading Group

Quote from exoticoption924:

I attended the WTS Open House in NYC on July 15 and here are my general impressions as well as some details on their program.

- Canadian firm
- Their specialty is what is referred to as "high frequency trading"
- No capital deposit required
- Commission rate is 20 cents per 1000 shares
- $1500 training fee
- $200/month Sterling software fee
- 50/50 profit split

Prop firm or scammers ?

$2400 a year guaranteed +$1500 = $3,900

Get a hundred dumb idiots from E T and elsewhere , that is $390,000 a year risk free.

__________________
Trading is very easy job with automation.

Posted by operator on 03-03-12 04:49 PM:

Re: Re: WTS Proprietary Trading Group

Quote from oilfxpro:

$2400 a year guaranteed +$1500 = $3,900

You might want to double check you math, because the only thing that is guaranteed is $1500.

Posted by mastertrader456 on 03-03-12 09:36 PM:

1500 is your trading deposit not a fee.

Posted by operator on 03-03-12 10:06 PM:

Quote from mastertrader456:

1500 is your trading deposit not a fee.

I thought that the $1500 was a training fee...Can you get it back?

Posted by EvOTraderV2 on 03-05-12 08:42 PM:

It's locked up for 1 year per SEC rules. It is capital contribution with WTS, not a training fee. You can get the capital back. You get 50k for 1500, check out old threads you'll find more info from people who signed up

__________________
EvO

Posted by EvOTraderV2 on 03-05-12 08:44 PM:

Quote from Szeven:

The only problem with that is that you are in fantasy land. Its not a cushion against losses. Dont confuse fantasy with reality.

The commission rate is also not abnormal. JC trading will give you a way better deal than this, and has much more reputable owners.

JC Trading is a sub group of WTS.

__________________
EvO

Posted by IcyTrade on 04-01-12 02:20 PM:

Quote from EvOTraderV2:

JC Trading is a sub group of WTS.

So its basically the same as WTS?

Posted by guest999 on 08-09-12 02:34 PM:

Quote from Mr Super Trader:

I know this is an old thread. I just contacted WTS trading firm to get some information. I got ext 209 i guess the guys name is Ray.
What a jerkoff right off the back he gave me an attitude.

He said who are you if your going to call in you should state who you
are. So i did and then he bluntly say's what do you want. I simply replied i was interested in becoming a prop trader . He replies with a complete attitude and starts going off on me about me wanting to open up a branch. I just simply had to let him have it. The dip shit hung up.

I figured he had a bad trading day or has to deal with upset people all day.

Unfortunately this is my first post. I just wanted to give you a heads up before you choose this firm.

Much appreciated for this response. These guys are pretty much at the bottom of the barrel in the trading community. Was inquiring this year just like you, and got this massive attitude problem from someone at the firm / pig pen!!!! If they were actually good traders they would know how to keep a cool head, and when to turn the switch off. These guys sound like the runt of the livestock with no brains. Search around, check out the people they work for, their background, who knows you may find some prior alleged criminal activity. I hope the other shops put these guys out of business. Here's the bottom line, they didn't make it into Goldman, they can't get a job at a better shop, that desk culture appears to be a bunch of renegade losers that can't control their emotions. If they get so hot headed, how can they even keep their cool and be solid traders? The best traders I've seen don't have temper issues. Also checked up on them, a few individuals did not speak too highly of them. Think psychopaths, they really need an on staff psychologist, there is a good one in the area that deals a lot with traders.

Posted by newbie2012 on 11-27-12 03:24 AM:

Re: Re: Simon Librati

so true

Quote from Hockey Trader:

Are you really this dense? The amount of negative feedback this firm has seen on here is alarming enough. It is not one guy or two- you are seriously talking about dozens of people who were rubbed the wrong way by this guy or his company. And I am sure many who do not even know about ET. Your last paragraph is sad. Someone can't express their opinion on a trading company? Most posts are perfectly fine and are simply out of experience.

Posted by newbie2012 on 11-27-12 03:25 AM:

not true. you don't get to trade 50K for 1.5K

Quote from EvOTraderV2:

It's locked up for 1 year per SEC rules. It is capital contribution with WTS, not a training fee. You can get the capital back. You get 50k for 1500, check out old threads you'll find more info from people who signed up

Posted by PorkBellies on 11-27-12 08:00 AM:

Help me understand something:

There's WTSprop, WTStrading, WTS Boston, JCTrading, etc. Some branches require a license, some are out of the US and do not, some don't need a deposit, others do, some have their own platform, others offer everything else.

Is there an org chart or something I can use to figure out what's what with WTS?

Posted by PorkBellies on 12-02-12 11:31 PM:

Quote from PorkBellies:

Help me understand something:

There's WTSprop, WTStrading, WTS Boston, JCTrading, etc. Some branches require a license, some are out of the US and do not, some don't need a deposit, others do, some have their own platform, others offer everything else.

Is there an org chart or something I can use to figure out what's what with WTS?

Anyone?

Posted by FStrader1980 on 12-03-12 12:12 AM:

From what I understand there's no organizational chart. WTS is a large prop firm and smaller groups like JC and Boston choose to run their business with WTS as a back-end partner providing broker-dealer services.

__________________
Frank S.

Posted by PorkBellies on 12-24-12 02:25 PM:

Quote from FStrader1980:

From what I understand there's no organizational chart. WTS is a large prop firm and smaller groups like JC and Boston choose to run their business with WTS as a back-end partner providing broker-dealer services.

thanks

still looking for more info though, I'm interested in possibly working with them

it seems they back their traders and don't require a license if you are out of Montreal

Posted by accountingsucks on 12-27-12 01:49 PM:

Quote from PorkBellies:

thanks

still looking for more info though, I'm interested in possibly working with them

it seems they back their traders and don't require a license if you are out of Montreal

I traded out of their Montreal office while I was doing my studies at McGill for 3 years, they are legit. Good groups of guys.
$1500 for training course that teaches you everything you need to know about routing risk management etc. Well worth i. I think now they only back traders that go through the training program and use the $1500 as a risk deposit/capital contribution/ whatever or experienced traders with a record.

Posted by Letsgetthefacts on 01-05-13 01:07 AM:

Is any one here has a INTERNATIONAL TRADING ACCOUNT WITH WTS

Guys:

I am interested to know if any one here in USA has or had an international trading account with WTS?

Please let me know.

Thanks

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