Forums - Mind Control 101 – Trading cults in ET

Forums (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/index.php)
- Psychology (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=35)
-- Mind Control 101 – Trading cults in ET (http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=161373)

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-20-09 01:39 PM:

Mind Control 101 – Trading cults in ET

ET is filled with want to be cult leaders who are filling newbie and even experienced trader’s heads with rubbish. These cult traders try to push their methods of trading as though they were a priest, minister or pastor with a profound gospel that sets their new “trading” church apart.

Here is how they do it.

1 Initiation vs. Instruction

There is a marked difference between initiations versus instruction. Most traders can give instruction. This is nothing more than stating the facts. Any trader can do this well after a limited trading experience. Cult traders are a marked contrast. They cajole a trader and ask them “Where have you been. Don’t you understand….”

Learning by initiation is about creating an experience that makes learning visceral, primitive or intuitive to the trader. The cult trader does this by telling him or her that trading must be done a certain way but holds back the majority of their knowledge on how to get there. When the trader asks a reasonable question they are told they are idiots or arse’s for asking such dumb questions. And if the just listen they will learn.

Often cult traders incorporate their follower. They encourage their followers to “keep the others in line” while they spoon feed the cult following crumbs.

2. Not Accessible because of their secret knowledge
These ET cult traders are not accessible. By making themselves scarce or fending off questions they distance themselves from the trader masses. They present their knowledge as rare, expensive, mysterious and only for those who are truly ready for it.

3. Trading from a “higher place”
These cult traders do not want to be viewed as a mere average trader. They want to be seen as proving they come from a “higher place” than the most ET traders. They tell you all the knowledge about trading you learned to date is trash and only by reflecting on their knowledge will you be enlightened.

4. They connect to traders by “Chunk up” methods
These cult traders build a rapport with traders because it is vital to their methods. In every pattern of their response to a trader they always give the impressions that are always bigger than you. They feed on making the trader feel small and inconsequential because they have a vast trading knowledge the trader must suffer for. These cult traders supply tid-bits of knowledge to traders admonishing them of their ignorance.

5. Always allude to the Mysterious
These cult traders tell you listen to each line they write and grasp its hidden meaning. There is often little or no trading content to what they write. They try to mask their words by saying they can never divulge their “true” edge directly. But if you read between the lines you will discover their “secrets of trading” method. Their method is really a vapor that vanishes.

6. Appeal to traders basic needs and wants
These cult traders have developed a six sense of a new traders need to be fulfilled. They fill the basic needs of these traders by tossing out hope to lead them out of losses or to show then the magic stair way to understanding the markets. These cult traders feed on the newbie trader’s inability to control their trading.

7. God Like Trading Confidence
Cult traders portray a larger view of the trading world than the traders they write to. They show us a “god like” or “god complex” that encompasses all of the points above. They scream “I know” how to trade and you don’t. Every modest approach to a cult trader is repulsed by cannon shots to further set themselves apart as above and beyond reproach

8. Often Leaning on Trading Greats
There are no lines for the guru at the bottom of the hill. Trading gurus supplant classic trading concepts into their game of mystery. You are supplied with Spartan details about trading and told to use a classic method to see how real profits are made. Only the trader is not told how this classic method makes them a cent.

If you are aware of mind control 101 from a trading guru on ET speak up. Let’s write about it. This is your chance to tell your fellow traders about your insights or experiences with trading cults on ET. If you think trading cults are not a problem ET say so.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-20-09 01:49 PM:

Recent quote from a cult trader with God like Confidence and secret knowledge:

Are you trying to confuse people

I don't "care", I KNOW!

As I "know", I can afford to show others how much they do not know - can you understand this concept?

By knowing how much you do not know, you then have a much better chance of knowing more - but you must be careful, as it is very easy to "think" that what you now "know" is better for your trading, when in fact it might be the worse thing ever.

Mind Control 101 from cult leader above using high place and mysterious:

It does not matter what people think, but what does matter is what they do! It is because THE answer is so simple that it is never discovered by the majority! If you trade you gamble. If you gamble, and you want to win, you must play smart and dismiss all the idiotic rubbish that is put forward by so called "experts".

Always remember that there are no experts in the trading game - this is the first and last principle, and without fully understanding it you are doomed to follow in the footsteps of the ignorant and ill informed.

I understand your frustrations, but believe me when I say it is for your own good, whether you know it or not! Forget it ALL - it is all rubbish.

Mind Control 101 from cult leader using chunk up

The internet is such a silly tool, and for some silly reason, a lot of people take it seriously. Do you honestly think that the "real" information of value will ever be released to the general public, and with idiots like our good friends here, and a few more, you can easily see that even if it was, it would make no difference. Looks like a total load of rubbish!

You started off bad, then you started to think a little, got a little better, and then, at the first sign of idiotic behavior, you reverted to the "usual" way of thinking- you failed the first real test, but you can of course redeem yourself at any time, the choice is yours, always has been and always will be!

If you are so brain dead, then go off and play with the other monkeys, as you can easily do as you see others do, but when you have to think a little you get all confused. Now, why don't you just up and swing out of here, you Chimpion.

What the hell rubbish are you talking about. However, I doubt if the dim wit like you can understand anything of value - and as for using his brains, well, it is very "obvious" where they are situated. So you see, you have been an arsehole.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Sushi on 04-20-09 02:39 PM:

Profligic and jack Hershey fit the cult description perfectly. Jack making 3 times daily range and logic saying his methods are perfect. Just do a search on there posts. Quite telling

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 04-20-09 02:41 PM:

And a search of your posts reveals you are a shill for Doug Allen. Quite telling.

Quote from Sushi:

Profligic and jack Hershey fit the cult description perfectly. Jack making 3 times daily range and logic saying his methods are perfect. Just do a search on there posts. Quite telling

Posted by nkhoi on 04-20-09 03:03 PM:

yes I like to come from a “higher place”.

Posted by Sushi on 04-20-09 03:12 PM:

Wrong. I think doug Allen is scamming with his ultra low payout to traders. Just because funded a few elite traders does not mean he does not have ulterior motifs. He would fit into cult too

Posted by Sushi on 04-20-09 05:01 PM:

anyone make it to Fiji and get funded?

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-21-09 12:59 PM:

Quote from Sushi:

Wrong. I think doug Allen is scamming with his ultra low payout to traders. Just because funded a few elite traders does not mean he does not have ulterior motifs. He would fit into cult too

Can you explain what mind control you believe is going on?

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-21-09 01:14 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

yes I like to come from a “higher place”.

I'm also in the high ground. So let’s talk about the difference between me and a mind controller.

I'm straight as possible in my replies and provide as much as I'm able to back my response. This contrasts with mind controllers who give tempting bits of information that screams “big profits” to "suck in" newbies. Where I tell them that is all I can provide without divulging my edge. The mind controller in contrast tells the newbie they are inept because they do not see how the bit of information they provided is known to every “real” trader. But, out of the generosity of their heart the mind controller will continue to patronize them with more tidbits of trading.

How do you disseminate your knowledge?

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by jonnyy40 on 04-21-09 01:49 PM:

Well when you have 'moderators' taking the job only to delete posts critical of their Guru,things have gone too far anyway.These Trading Boards are money-making enterprises.Just keep that in mind? One thing I would say: If someone wants to hypnotise you,they will make you concentrate on something. If they want to do that in written form,they will encourage you to read s-l-o-w-l-y and repeatedly.They may also repost the text for reinforcement.
(The desperation of the typical visitor to this site makes compliance very likely). This desperation and higher than normal psychological flaws in those desperate enough, in social terms, to try trading makes it likely that a higher proportion than the general populace will become controlled. A few will become religious in their admiration for the Guru and will do his bidding with great zeal.

Posted by nkhoi on 04-21-09 02:23 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

..

How do you disseminate your knowledge?

interesting question, for me it will be in small dose on case by case basis, slowly with lots of tweaking if needed.
ps. that is if you have more time, if you don't you just ramp up the dose and hope for the best.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-21-09 03:02 PM:

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

And a search of your posts reveals you are a shill for Doug Allen. Quite telling.

But you were sucked in by Jack Hershey R. Raskolnikov (The Swordsman).. you were one of the drooling idiots that fell for his schtick

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-23-09 03:22 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

But you were sucked in by Jack Hershey R. Raskolnikov (The Swordsman).. you were one of the drooling idiots that fell for his schtick

Eschew obfuscation. This should be your objective. Many threads have such a high rate of “wordiness” that it should be a warning flag. These mind control artist intentionally make trading concepts difficult to understand.

Jack Hershey is a master of “chunk up” and the mysterious. This allows him to make you the reader feel he is bigger than you. With god like confidence Jack spews forth terminology to show he is trading in a higher place than you are and that if you do not listen you will never attain. To reinforce his dialog Jack sights trading greats and study after study. Most of which have no bearing to what is being discussed.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Redneck on 04-23-09 03:54 PM:

Rabbitone,

If I may Sir

I believe

some post - to make others think

some post - to lull/ lure others into allowing someone to think for them

And maybe sometimes it is hard to tell the difference Sir

Take Care

Posted by nkhoi on 04-23-09 04:05 PM:

Quote from Redneck trader:

..
some post - to make others think

some post - to lull/ lure others into allowing someone to think for them

And maybe sometimes it is hard to tell the difference Sir

Take Care

better yet, to see the result
future
http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthrea...threadid=158708
stock
http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthrea...threadid=159996

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-23-09 04:10 PM:

Jack Hershey has never traded in his life.. if one of his supporters would care to post a link to his track record I will retract my statement.

Posted by Thunderdog on 04-23-09 04:50 PM:

Rabbitone,

Interesting commentary. What do you think motivates such cultsters? Megalomania, perhaps? A pecuniary angle? A combination of the two? The reason I ask is that Jack Hershey, presumably one of the people to whom your thread refers, has not ever asked for money to my knowledge. I can barely read any of his posts to completion, if at all, and I have accused him of possessing a messianic mien and no substance. Is he simply an attention hound in your opinion?

__________________
I'm handing you no blarney

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-23-09 04:50 PM:

Quote from Redneck trader:

Rabbitone,

If I may Sir

I believe

some post - to make others think

some post - to lull/ lure others into allowing someone to think for them

And maybe sometimes it is hard to tell the difference Sir

Take Care

Your post indeed made me think. As they always do because they are insightful. I admire the beauty of your thoughts. They are simple, direct, pure and to the point. It is what I have as goal. But more often miss that mark because I love my own ramblings.

The question is “What should a forum thread produce for those who contribute; as opposed to being a mind control mechanism.” The answer is the whole must be more than the sum of its parts. When traders become "attuned" to -- or synergized with – some trading topic, they become more than just their thread. This is when we think “outside the box” with progress and learning proliferating.

The reason I started this tread is large numbers of new traders (some who wrote me) are being swallowed up in these forms of mind control. These traders are susceptible to the worm (profits) on the hook (hope) that an intricate trading method (shown by chunk up and mystery) of the wizard trader (whose is god like on a higher plain) lead up the line on his fishing pole (will lead you to the big profits to satisfy your basic needs and wants).

We all, including myself, are susceptible because it I hard to know the difference, as you observe, when we have nothing to compare it to. But if we think about the methods being used we will be less susceptible to being taking the wrong paths in our trading.

Thank you.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-23-09 04:57 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Jack Hershey has never traded in his life.. if one of his supporters would care to post a link to his track record I will retract my statement.

I agree with this thought. For those that boast of methods that can change all of our lives we should put their “feet to the fire” and ask them to produce audited results. Otherwise they must be written as mind controllers.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-23-09 05:50 PM:

Quote from Thunderdog:

Rabbitone,

Interesting commentary. What do you think motivates such cultsters? Megalomania, perhaps? A pecuniary angle? A combination of the two? The reason I ask is that Jack Hershey, presumably one of the people to whom your thread refers, has not ever asked for money to my knowledge. I can barely read any of his posts to completion, if at all, and I have accused him of possessing a messianic mien and no substance. Is he simply an attention hound in your opinion?

Thank you for your question.

When it comes to leadership, everyone likes to focus on the positive like Abraham Lincoln and Oprah Winfrey rather than Adolf Hitler and Jim Jones. History and trading are full of both good and bad leaders. Focusing on bad leadership is often over looked. Mind control is a form of bad leadership.

Many of the traders who take on mind control leadership in these forums do not have a psychopathological condition that are characterized by fantasies of wealth, power or omnipotence on the scale of Hitler. Mind control trader leaders are much simpler in their needs. These traders often have low self-esteem that the ET forum allows them to keep in check.

Mind control traders are often thrown into the role they would least prefer - leader. This happens because these traders are gifted at communicating. Forums like these make it be quite easy for them to misuse this ability. If this same trader spoke directly to us face to face they would be not be able to express themselves out of fear of verbal reprisals and would isaunter away quietly while cowering from this form of leadership experience.

Once these traders start writing to us they assert their communication skill to gain themselves power and recognition in the trading community. To their surprise it is accepted. This is when they adopt mind control as a mask. They stop at nothing to keep up a façade that would not work in the face-to-face world. They are drunk on the power they have never had before – keeping the attention of others. Often with this there is no pecuniary angle involved.

The other half of this equation is what I call bad followers. The dark side of these followers is often what causes them to tolerate manipulation and mistreatment by a trader who acts as their leader. Mind control trader leaders will be narcissistic and compulsive, while the people who listen to them will tend toward the codependent or passive-aggressive side (a characteristic of many newbie traders). The writing tactics I spoke of earlier are what mind control trader leaders spew forth on their followers.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Thunderdog on 04-23-09 05:55 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

Thank you for your question.

When it comes to leadership, everyone likes to focus on the positive like Abraham Lincoln and Oprah Winfrey rather than Adolf Hitler and Jim Jones. History and trading are full of both good and bad leaders. Focusing on bad leadership is often over looked. Mind control is a form of bad leadership.

Many of the traders who take on mind control leadership in these forums do not have a psychopathological condition that are characterized by fantasies of wealth, power or omnipotence on the scale of Hitler. Mind control trader leaders are much simpler in their needs. These traders often have low self-esteem that the ET forum allows them to keep in check.

Mind control traders are often thrown into the role they would least prefer - leader. This happens because these traders are gifted at communicating. Forums like these make it be quite easy for them to misuse this ability. If this same trader spoke directly to us face to face they would be not be able to express themselves out of fear of verbal reprisals and would isaunter away quietly while cowering from this form of leadership experience.

Once these traders start writing to us they assert their communication skill to gain themselves power and recognition in the trading community. To their surprise it is accepted. This is when they adopt mind control as a mask. They stop at nothing to keep up a façade that would not work in the face-to-face world. They are drunk on the power they have never had before – keeping the attention of others. Often with this there is no pecuniary angle involved.

The other half of this equation is what I call bad followers. The dark side of these followers is often what causes them to tolerate manipulation and mistreatment by a trader who acts as their leader. Mind control trader leaders will be narcissistic and compulsive, while the people who listen to them will tend toward the codependent or passive-aggressive side (a characteristic of many newbie traders). The writing tactics I spoke of earlier are what mind control trader leaders spew forth on their followers.

Well, Mr. Hershey may be many things but gifted communicator is not one of them.

__________________
I'm handing you no blarney

Posted by jack hershey on 04-23-09 06:26 PM:

Quote from Thunderdog:

Rabbitone,

Interesting commentary. What do you think motivates such cultsters? Megalomania, perhaps? A pecuniary angle? A combination of the two? The reason I ask is that Jack Hershey, presumably one of the people to whom your thread refers, has not ever asked for money to my knowledge. I can barely read any of his posts to completion, if at all, and I have accused him of possessing a messianic mien and no substance. Is he simply an attention hound in your opinion?

Over time, the financial industry has gone through several stages of progress. Throughout the last 50 years in my personal experience it has grown. The simple consequence is that the replacement value of basic needs of people has progressively increased in price. Therefore, being wealthy requires more capital as time passes.

People, by posting, state where they are in the spectrum of wealth and its acquisiton. They commonly use this standard for two things: measuring where others are and measuring what is still in the realm of possibility for them.

Four deep and abiding considerations surround this limiting people do with respect to the spectrum they do not understand.

First, is how their life experience has put them firmly seated in the place they reside: their home life, their schooling and their environment.

Second, is the set of causal factors which surround their learning of failure (that is stated in their posts and expressions of their limitations). Six sectors provide the approximatley 100 check points that they have NOT used to assess where they are and how they need to extract themselves to a better personal standing; these include: status in life, character, orientation, mind set, what is deemed possible or not and mistaken actions and activity. All of these sectors have sub sectors as one would imagine. For example, status in life has five subsectors: family beliefs, cultural beliefs, educational beliefs, job/work culture and life style. The other sectors are of like kind. About 100 imprtant check items result and they must be processed i the two ways mentioned above. we all become peers as a consequence because we all contribute from a variety of vantage points.

Third, there is a foundational and basic intellectual process where, by reason and critical thinking, a person must get to the bottom of things and have a proper foundation upon which to build and believe. It may not, on the other hand be an ad hoc collection of derivatives from the first and second items above mentioned. From this comes three things: experience through with knowledge and skills are built in the mind; the mind's knowledge; and the minds skill set. The mind, through neuroplasticity, builds long term memory differentiation (such as in learning to read) which becomes the first recourse of the mind as it applies knowledge and skills to succeed. For trading success is defined as building wealth which is a simple process once the mind is differentiated. I have the well reasoned pool extraction algorithm for this.

Fourth and last, there is the bedrock learning process that has to come into being to afford the tranference from a source to be internalized.

Here in ET are examples of all of these things happening to some people who make the choice.

Simply and pragmatically. we need only to look at two months (March and April) and two people (rough trader and monkman) to see how intitial capital begins ( 158708 and 159996, the ET site pages) and is carried forward to enlarge participation and wealth.

For SCT like trading, rough trader takes 1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars from page 1 to the current page. He is trading a simple level of the SCT method and, as you see he has a plan to add contracts from profits. He has gone from 1 to 3 contracts in a few weeks.

PVT is practiced by monkman using stocks and position tading. Here, as he makes money, he make the quantity of shares per turn increase by applying past profits.

For most people who have planted themselves firmly at the bottom of the spectrum of what is possible, they cannot see or believe any of this has really happened or is happening. It, in fact for them, cannot be proven by any evidentury process. As we all know, some people phish to be able to reverse engineeer. Usually the knowledgable and successful trader does not comply with these phishing requests (See teasing tara for the blatant level of phishing on behalf of her partner).

You can review 8000 posts to examine a six year process of going from scratch as monkman is doing with PVT and then switching to SCT as rough trader is doing. Do this by looking at the set of journals run by Spydertrader over a five year period where annually about 2,000,000 hits occur at this point. this is a college education and masters degree time period.

Below is 146 minutes on 03JUN06. here you see a turn which occurred by the last person mentioned and who is using his differentiated mind. When you bring up the chart you get to see he extracted the market's offer for that period. At that time he was two years into a full time trading experience and now he is over four years into that experience. Through self selection he has many colleagues who trade as he does and who keep in touch. They occupy a space in the spectrum of what is possible that is foriegn to most and often the unknowledgeable and the unskilled use poor vocabularry selections to "ridicule" from the place they occupy.

The economist on page 78 of the 11APR09 issue points out how these same people who ridicule have disruptions to their analysis and intuitive thoughts while trading. It is a consequence of stress. Testing these people proves that they make the wrong bets to win and make the wrong bets to lose. This is called incoherence.

It is not a reasoned idea to ridicule successful traders from an incoherent vantagepoint.

Posted by GCSICLRBC on 04-23-09 06:54 PM:

Talk about PROLIX.

Jack,

Even if you had something genuine to offer the newbies on ET, your convoluted method of communicating negates any real benefit.

You just wrote what...500 words?

I'm a professional trader who visits this site during downtime.

I COULDN'T GRASP A SINGLE, SALIENT POINT from all your jibberish!

A (possibly simulated) 40-lot trade? Great. What about the other (losing) trades?

Just face it -- NOBODY LIKES YOU ON ET.

You're socially inept & should probably just get another hobby.

If you were any good at trading you'd be a CTA here in Chicago or NYC.

I think you're a real toad.

GL to anybody foolish enough to "follow you."

--Harold

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-23-09 07:42 PM:

Quote from Thunderdog:

Well, Mr. Hershey may be many things but gifted communicator is not one of them.

Jack Hershey is a fantastic communicator. However, his communication method is not the interchange of thoughts. It is not to impart knowledge or opinions to traders but to control and influence our minds. Some of the best bad leaders using mind controllers communicate “nothing, nothing and more nothing” with excellent skills as I said out in my original post.

That is my whole point. Only a good communicator can omit information, supply disinformation and control the mind. They are brilliant “at much to do about nothing.” Mind control communication is logistics. It is to cajole you or blast you using any non informational or disinformational item at their disposal to keep you mesmerized by their prowess.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Banff01 on 04-23-09 07:47 PM:

I always enjoy reading you thoughtful posts, Rabbitone. Learning to trade can be a very long journey as it is and it gets even more difficult and frustrating when one is taken in a completely wrong direction by some self-proclaimed experts. Unfortunately, whenever there is money reward involved most people are unable to use common sense and think clearly for themselves. There will always be that lingering doubt and fear that one is missing something by not following the guru that sounds so confident in his ability when all one is getting from the markets (or the world around) is uncertainty. These gurus bring order and assurances while the markets seem chaotic to new traders.

One thing I could never understand is what motivates these so called gurus to dedicate so much time to ET. I believe that's also one of the reasons why they do get the following they get. People simply have a hard time understanding why would someone dedicate so much work to their posts if they had no understanding of the subject they write about. The fact that the guru does not ask for any money makes their effort very believable and creates an illusion that one must be stupid if he/she is unable to grasp the immense knowledge surely hidden somewhere in these long posts.

Posted by nkhoi on 04-23-09 07:55 PM:

Quote from GCSICLRBC:

..I'm a professional trader who visits this site during downtime.

I ...
If you were any good at trading you'd be a CTA here in Chicago or NYC.

I think you're a real toad.

GL to anybody foolish enough to "follow you."

--Harold

if you are in Chicago then ask this guy if he knows anything about Jack.

James Sramek
Peak Trading Group
30 South Wacker Drive
Suite 1208, Chicago, 60606
Phone-866-279-9648
Phone-312-627-4560
Fax-312-795-4120

Posted by lindq on 04-23-09 08:01 PM:

Excellent posts, Rabbitone. Thanks for taking the time.

__________________
Keep it simple.

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-23-09 08:08 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Over time, the financial industry has gone through several stages of progress. Throughout the last 50 years in my personal experience it has grown. The simple consequence is that the replacement value of basic needs of people has progressively increased in price. Therefore, being wealthy requires more capital as time passes.

Trading to gain wealth is the western equivalent of stakhanovist productivism. And where most of us would inevitably pick the excess of stakanovism, Trading to gain wealth remains essentially unchallenged.
Historically, commodity trading was amongst the first large scale trading application of this so called “scientific management”. Since it has penetrated most sphere of productions. It has been the arrow of progress and it is not politically correct to question progress nor its vector, in western society. It is the worse of all taboos. By definition, these traders are technologically superior and the rest is under development. Following our guidelines to become this type of trader. Anything else is obscurantism.
By definition, Trading to gain wealth, or its derivatives, is the indisputable productivist algorithm. By definition, this unquestionably smart mind creation materialized into unquestionably harmonious trading factories, producing unquestionably beautiful cars, unquestionably useful micro-wave to heat unquestionably delicious fast-food, or unquestionably clever nuclear submarines to tour and crash in our oceans. No questioning allowed.
Some humanists pointed to the suffering, the de-skilling, the de-humanising, to the alienation of the trading population. But then, the group benefiting from it, the emerging oligarchy found it perfectly acceptable.
Surely, such trading success and emancipating approach to work could not just remain under the hands of a lucky few traders. Trading to gain wealth was transposed to any form of management. Physical trader conditioning muted to intellectual conditioning, through some sort of trader mental implants. The problem is that we are totally unaware of the depth of penetration of these intellectual viruses, these mental screws . They belong to our mental landscape, like wallpaper. They have penetrated our reasoning and condition our reasoning. The algorithm of Trading to gain wealth is programing our thinking unconsciously, invisibly. We do not take decisions anymore. The algorithm does and is overruling us. But, we don’t like the idea of the being conditioned. We would like it to be ideal and superior.
For example, most corporate bullshit trading bingo these days is nothing but approximate Trading to gain wealth. Trading slogans, internal communication, are nothing but taylorist mental implants to be accepted by the brain. “Just do it” kind of trading slogans, progressively robotizing the traders thinking. The mind of an trader has to bend to the ideology of the market the same way the workforce of a car manufacturer has to bend to screw. An trader has to believe lies if requested. Swallowing market’s slogans is what people dislike most in trades these days. But silence is the price of a profit.
Which corner of an market is not under the scrutiny of a debilitating taylorist algorithm or its derivatives these days ? What is stress if not the visible part of the iceberg of trading self-inflicting taylorist conditioning ?
Totally unscientific, absurd, counter-productive, costing more than the cost it scrutinizes, freezing creativity, stopping intelligence, sabotaging decisions, it does not really matter, as long as it looks like efficiency driven, and is coming out of suit-tie robots showing upside down excel graphs while mumbling sounds like management keywords. The smell of Trading to gain wealth is enough in our days of naivety. Ask the banks. Ask the credit victims. Ask Madof.
Re-structuring -an classic euphemism for sacking- whatever the context, is sometimes the only room for immediate efficiency gain. It does not matter if the trader will not survive in the mid term, as long as it looks efficient today. This is how far taylorist thinking has penetrated society. Self destruction. Sawing its own branch as long as it sounds productive.
The NYSE is not a place where emancipation of mankind is at stake anymore. NASDAQ is becoming progressively the center of a taylorist only driven by technology. Thinking under the auto-pilot of growth for growth. Where are the initial concepts gone ? Most official speeches these days are about increasing trading productivity. No more than a crude productivist conditioning. How fascinating. How emancipating. How enlightening.
“Trade more, to earn more”. Is this rat-race-slogan the SEC intellectual horizon of the XXIst century ? Is this rat-race-slogan, the conceptual enlightenment for the XXIst century ? Voltaires, Rousseau would be just ashamed of us. How much does this stupid productivist slogan weight compared to the smart conjunction and subtle equilibrium of concepts such as “Liberté-Egalité-Fraternité” ?
In a word, Trading to gain wealth -or its ersatz- has become totalitarian. It is everywhere and is unquestionable. Like the dogma of growth: work more, to earn more, to waste more, to borrow more, to work more… Until death happens.
How far are we willing to go with such debilitating societal programming about trading? How could we accept to go that far in the fragmentation of tasks and of thinking about trading ? How did we accept taylorist conditioning taking decisions for us ? What is this absurd race for the illusion of total trading efficiency all about?
How can we worship such fanatic trading algorithm ?
How did we not reject this absurd totalitarian trading productivism ? How did we let it become such a lethal mental deadlock ? How did we accept as a result trading to be pushed that far into materialism ? How did we not realize this developing mental illness called materialism in our trading ?
Some humanists point to the suffering of the population now being reduced to a workforce, to the millions of victims queuing at the doll. But then, the oligarchy found it perfectly acceptable.
This is even how it self-defines trading.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-23-09 08:20 PM:

I apologize to any one who read the previous section. It was an exercise to mimic Jack.

The previous post is an example of how easy mind control can be performed using the same method as Jack Hershey did in his post. I took a web page randomly off the web on Taylorism. Then added and substituted words like trading. Some parts almost made sense

This type of plagiarism is a common tool that mind controls use. It is an easy way to take an inert internet note and elevate your self to a trading wizard who uses mind control.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-23-09 08:50 PM:

Quote from Banff01:

I always enjoy reading you thoughtful posts, Rabbitone. Learning to trade can be a very long journey as it is and it gets even more difficult and frustrating when one is taken in a completely wrong direction by some self-proclaimed experts. Unfortunately, whenever there is money reward involved most people are unable to use common sense and think clearly for themselves. There will always be that lingering doubt and fear that one is missing something by not following the guru that sounds so confident in his ability when all one is getting from the markets (or the world around) is uncertainty. These gurus bring order and assurances while the markets seem chaotic to new traders.

One thing I could never understand is what motivates these so called gurus to dedicate so much time to ET. I believe that's also one of the reasons why they do get the following they get. People simply have a hard time understanding why would someone dedicate so much work to their posts if they had no understanding of the subject they write about. The fact that the guru does not ask for any money makes their effort very believable and creates an illusion that one must be stupid if he/she is unable to grasp the immense knowledge surely hidden somewhere in these long posts.

Banff01 Thank you for your kind words.

Many people are only now starting to grasp what the internet has done for some people that lack the social skills in normal society. Typing words on a screen no longer shuts out these individuals because they no longer have to see a live reaction to their spoken words.

For many of these people including many mind controllers this is society. They will do almost anything to keep their “position” alive among their peers. They want to live this illusion to the fullest rather than having to deal face to face with real people. These mind controls want power not money. They want the power to control you.

A simple trick that many mind controllers do is to show a trade post mortem of a common set up with a slight twist. Beginning traders are taught a simple principle of the markets such as 1-2-3 reversal but the entry and exit vary slightly. Then the mind controller posts example after example of this trading using this 1-2-3 reversal to prove “his” method works. Many will become mesmerize by this mind controller not realizing they do understand how and when to perform a 1-2-3 reversal themselves.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-23-09 10:47 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Oh dear Jack.. the best evidence of SCT you've got is Spydertraders phantom 40 lot trade that he posted after the event and just by coincidence managed to hit the exact top and bottom

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 12:29 AM:

Quote from lindq:

Excellent posts, Rabbitone. Thanks for taking the time.

Thank you for your comment.

Recently from the web:

Internet mind control and delusions

A recent paper in the medical journal Psychopathology has analyzed the links between websites of likely-delusional people who publish their experiences of 'mind control' on the internet, and has concluded that they challenge the psychiatric criteria for the diagnosis of delusions.

One of the defining features of a delusion is that it should not be a belief "ordinarily accepted by other members of the person's culture or subculture". Nevertheless, some researchers have noted that there is no clear measure of what is 'ordinarily accepted'. It is also possible that cultures or subcultures could be based around beliefs that would otherwise be diagnosed as delusional. Until now, however, there have been no obvious examples of such subcultures identified.

In the Psychopathology paper, ten websites reporting psychosis-like 'mind control' experiences were identified. The reports were anonymised and independently blind-rated by three psychiatrists who confirmed that they reflect experiences stemming from psychosis.

The links between the websites were then analysed using a technique called social network analysis that allows the social network of the authors to be inferred. This analysis suggested that the authors of the reports were part of a 'small world' social network, based around the content of likely-delusional beliefs.

This contradicts the current definition of a delusion, suggesting that it is becoming increasing redundant as technology shapes and re-shapes social networks. It also suggests that, according to the current definition, anyone can 'cure' themselves of a delusion by using the internet to find or form a community of others who share the same belief!

Importantly, however, the researchers make clear that this research does not imply that all of the internet 'mind control' community are psychotic, as reports were chosen to specifically reflect psychosis-like experiences.

It is interesting, however, that the identified authors are also likely to be an active part of a wider, non-psychotic community, who may have similar, although differently motivated, concerns.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by jack hershey on 04-24-09 12:37 AM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Oh dear Jack.. the best evidence of SCT you've got is Spydertraders phantom 40 lot trade that he posted after the event and just by coincidence managed to hit the exact top and bottom

The rough trader thread looks kinda nice too. Go to page 158708 to start getting a beginner education.

Just about anyone can see how he went from 1 contract to 3 contracts. Trading 40 contracts could have been done fairly soon in that thread.

This thread is really getting kind of funny. So is the thread about the obvious.

the "phantom" expression is just too funny. I guess you don't even have any imagination. Imagine yourself hitting a top and the next bottom the way you say that the print did (It did as a matter of fact and you looked up the chart when it was first posted for your benefit).

LOL What a funny guy you turned out to be.

Posted by pspr on 04-24-09 12:45 AM:

Be very careful if one of them offers you some KoolAid.

__________________
Wally

--------------------------------
"In actual practice a man has to guard against many things, and most of all against himself."
--- Jesse Livermore

Posted by spindr0 on 04-24-09 03:03 AM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

I apologize to any one who read the previous section. It was an exercise to mimic Jack. The previous post is an example of how easy mind control can be performed using the same method as Jack Hershey did in his post. I took a web page randomly off the web on Taylorism. Then added and substituted words like trading. Some parts almost made sense. This type of plagiarism is a common tool that mind controls use. It is an easy way to take an inert internet note and elevate your self to a trading wizard who uses mind control.

Geez, I read two sentences, figured that you needed a high colonic and skipped to the next reply. So was that poor mind control or am I not mind controllable?

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 03:28 AM:

Quote from spindr0:

Geez, I read two sentences, figured that you needed a high colonic and skipped to the next reply. So was that poor mind control or am I not mind controllable?

LOL. No, you are not mind controllable.

The exercise points out how few of us realize we slip into our vulnerability to mind control on the web by the simple act of reading on forums. Why is this?

The message that is coming to you on ET is personal and direct. It is not something our minds are programmed to shut out like TV advertisements. We respond and ask questions and obtain direct feedback and reinforcement. Many buy into trading ideas and messages, without thinking, that are not for them and often pay big price.

Nah could not happen you say. Just look at some journal treads, their length and membership. ET Product theads have touts and more touts. Not mind control you say. Just talk? Could be? But look at the methods I have noted and compare them to the post in the threads….

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 03:37 AM:

Coroner launches probe into 'internet suicide cult' after SEVEN youngsters in one town hang

Last updated at 22:05 23 January 2008

Last Thursday: Natasha Randall, close friend of earlier victim Liam Clarke, hanged herself in her bedroom. Using the tag 'sxiwildchild', she spent hours on her Bebo webpage
A coroner yesterday launched an investigation into the link between the internet and young suicides - as an MP hit out at websites for "romanticising" teenage death.
Phillip Walters, the coroner for the town of Bridgend where seven young people have hanged themselves in a year, fears the teenage sites such as Bebo play a part in the spate of mystery deaths.
Mr Walter said he is "desperately concerned" about the chain of young suicides - and of the connection to teenage social network sites such as Bebo and MySpace.
The coroner said: "I shall be looking at these networking sites myself to see if there is a link between them and the growing number of youngsters committing suicide.
"But in the meantime I want to warn youngsters about the possible dangers these websites can pose.
"I would also like to warn parents to be actively on the alert for signs of their children being influenced by others on these sites.

They later ruled mind games (control) was a major cause of this and then in another country...

Another teenage girl is thought to have hanged herself in a county already blighted by 13 suspected suicides over the past year. The 19-year-old, named as Angie Fuller, was found at a house in Nantymoel, Bridgend in South Wales in the early hours of yesterday morning. She is the 14th person under 26 believed to have committed suicide in the small town in just 12 months.

And all of them tied back to this strange internet thing...

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by maxpi on 04-24-09 03:52 AM:

I worked with a really creepy, I mean really creepy, guy a few years back. He did the mind control thingy. The boss would ask him to train somebody on something and when he got done with the incredibly boring and penetrating "training" the person was afraid to touch anything related. He wanted control of everything in the lab and would use mind control at every opportunity... eventually I just sat back and let him do all the work, and he was not into finishing anything, just control, least productive person I've ever, ever witnessed. They took him all the way to the top personell people trying to get rid of him and he did the mind control thingy there too, he's probably there some three years after he ran out all the talent... I just could not stand the guy, he wasn't human... but it was obvious he was going to win the war and I wanted to change careers... How they figure out how to do that stuff I don't know, I never wanted to learn what he did. He was a brain nutrition starved vegan though, he'd been a vegan in his teenage years and that is known to retard brain development at that stage of life... he probably was Autistic or Asperger's for sure, he seemed more Aspergerish than out and out Autistic.. I've been around both... hard to take...

I put JH on ignore just to preserve my sanity, my head swims and I feel like I'm circling the drain when I read that stuff.. it's weird... NLP is an outgrowth of hypnosis, talk about mind control... he can write perfectly well, I've seen something written "in the clear" by the guy, it was fine...

I tried to cut through the bullshit and figure out what he was talking about, the channels are very weak tools imo. FTT is interesting but in other contexts it is not needed, PRV is useful but also a weak tool and prone to leading to overtrading... whatever, he has an assemblage of weak tools...

We need a contest here on ET with all the schools being touted here in play....

I did get a book on NLP, NLP for Dummies, the whole subject is not very complex actually. A funny thing, it points out that the subconscious does not understand negatives so when some assclown on ET says "YOU GUYS CANT TRADE" the reader's subconscious sees it as "you guys can trade"... Mind controllers understand that so they work around it and convince you that you can't trade without their inspired knowledge, they never tell you can't trade.. well Jack has said that people that don't analyze volume will never make money and I'm down with that.. he's said that people that get punished by losing too much will never make it. that's possible I suppose...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 04:21 AM:

Quote from maxpi:

I put JH on ignore just to preserve my sanity

That's a coincidence because Jack tries to ignore all his detractors to preserve his vanity

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 03:47 PM:

Mind control in internet advertising is all the rage:

The goal of most advertisers is, frankly, to bypass your rational brain and reach down into the murky depths of your limbic system to control your desires. And the Web has given advertisers powerful new mind-control tools, allowing them to generate fake "buzz" for products by implanting references to, say, Hewlett Packard on YouTube or Cisco on Wikipedia. The idea is to make people think that their "friends" online like a product and artificially jumpstart a word-of-mouth recommendation for the product. At a South by Southwest panel about the worst viral media advertising, several marketers and critics gathered to discuss the most heinous and failed examples of ads that are turning the internet into a nightmare. Two ad campaigns stood out as the worst.

Hewlett Packard used a service called PayPerPost to pay bloggers to create posts or viral videos to promote Hewlett Packard's new digital camera. One woman had her children smash a Fuji camera with a hammer, filmed it, and put it on YouTube. The video didn't actually catch on virally, but did represent a strange and disturbing new phase in the evolution of advertising. A woman who clearly just wanted to feed her kids actually used her kids in a specious ad campaign in order to earn cash.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCqnar1qe38

This isn't the only time companies have tried this kind of stunt — paying bloggers a pittance to develop advertising for rich advertising firms — and it's bound to become more popular as more people get their entertainment via places like YouTube. In fact, Hewlett Packard had a much more successful viral ad campaign two years ago, in which they used “Finger soccer” (see link above) to make HP seem as cool and fun as Apple. By the time the outing happened, however, hundreds of people had spontaneously joined the "finger soccer" campaign just for fun, not realizing that the videos they uploaded were part of a viral mind control advertising effort by HP.

Another recent ad campaign that tried to use Web communities to generate artificial buzz was internet hardware manufacturer Cisco's "human network" campaign. You may remember seeing the phrase "human network" in Cisco ads, but Cisco wanted to do more than create a slogan. They wanted people to start using the phrase "human network" as everyday slang for the internet — the ideawould be to cement a connection in people's unconscious minds between Cisco, the internet, and a kind of Utopian "human network"

Since the "human network" isn't yet a well-defined phrase, [Cisco] enlisted thought leaders to volunteer their own definitions, without guidance from Cisco or Ogilvy. Contributors included a handful of FM authors, such as Boing Boing's David Pescovitz, 43Folders's Merlin Mann, Metafilter's Matt Haughey, GigaOM's Om Malik, Wi-Fi Networking News's Glenn Fleishman, Newsvine's Mike Davidson, XYZ Computing's Sal Cangeloso, TechCrunch's Mike Arrington, Searchblog's John Battelle and Make's Phil Torrone. These authors penned their thoughts and plugged them into Cisco ads on their own sites. The ads then invite readers to visit a Cisco landing page that hosts definitions from other thought leaders and gives them an opportunity to vote for a favorite. If they don't see a definition that gets it right, they can also click to the "human network" page at Wikia (a collection of freely-hosted wiki communities built on the same software as Wikipedia) to edit the definition there.

The line between advertising and mind control is not blurred: it was as if Cisco was trying to retcon a phrase into existence, with the help of several popular cultural commentators, and then lay claim to it. Luckily, the campaign didn't really work. The phrase "human network" in Wikipedia redirects to "social network," and the phrase was relegated to a mere advertising slogan rather than popular geek slang.

Why are these mind control campaigns a harbinger of things to come? First of all, they are directly engaged with a form of media — internet social networks — that are only likely to grow bigger as time goes on. Advertising can't only be those little tiny Google ads that go up the side of the page, and advertisers are going to do everything they can to become part of the content on a YouTube or Facebook so that they are more closely woven into the fabric of those networks. After all, you go to YouTube to see wacky videos, not to read the ads. So if advertisers can infiltrate the videos and make you watch their mind control stuff, it's as if you've voluntarily tuned into a TV ad.

This is much more disturbing than traditional advertising mainly because a lot of it is extremely misleading. Ads that are "teasers" are one thing — you know, putting some cool phrase or image out there, only to reveal that it's an Altoids ad three weeks later. But ads that pretend to be real endorsements from regular people? This hides their corporate sponsorship, and uses mind control ideas of underpaid people? It's like turning YouTube into a marketing sweatshop. Advertising dystopia, here we come.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 04:18 PM:

Quote from maxpi:

I worked with a really creepy, I mean really creepy, guy a few years back. He did the mind control thingy. The boss would ask him to train somebody on something and when he got done with the incredibly boring and penetrating "training" the person was afraid to touch anything related. He wanted control of everything in the lab and would use mind control at every opportunity... eventually I just sat back and let him do all the work, and he was not into finishing anything, just control, least productive person I've ever, ever witnessed. They took him all the way to the top personell people trying to get rid of him and he did the mind control thingy there too, he's probably there some three years after he ran out all the talent... I just could not stand the guy, he wasn't human... but it was obvious he was going to win the war and I wanted to change careers... How they figure out how to do that stuff I don't know, I never wanted to learn what he did. He was a brain nutrition starved vegan though, he'd been a vegan in his teenage years and that is known to retard brain development at that stage of life... he probably was Autistic or Asperger's for sure, he seemed more Aspergerish than out and out Autistic.. I've been around both... hard to take...

I put JH on ignore just to preserve my sanity, my head swims and I feel like I'm circling the drain when I read that stuff.. it's weird... NLP is an outgrowth of hypnosis, talk about mind control... he can write perfectly well, I've seen something written "in the clear" by the guy, it was fine...

I tried to cut through the bullshit and figure out what he was talking about, the channels are very weak tools imo. FTT is interesting but in other contexts it is not needed, PRV is useful but also a weak tool and prone to leading to overtrading... whatever, he has an assemblage of weak tools...

We need a contest here on ET with all the schools being touted here in play....

I did get a book on NLP, NLP for Dummies, the whole subject is not very complex actually. A funny thing, it points out that the subconscious does not understand negatives so when some assclown on ET says "YOU GUYS CANT TRADE" the reader's subconscious sees it as "you guys can trade"... Mind controllers understand that so they work around it and convince you that you can't trade without their inspired knowledge, they never tell you can't trade.. well Jack has said that people that don't analyze volume will never make money and I'm down with that.. he's said that people that get punished by losing too much will never make it. that's possible I suppose...

You sight an area I am well aware of in mind control. I spent 20 years managing before I retired to trade full time. Here are ways a boss performs mind control the same as they would on ET:
- Hire people (I’m not referring to you) who are underqualified for their positions and then overpay them so it would be difficult for them to find a comparable job elsewhere.
- Hire people who are compliant and not likely to challenge your authority.
- Keep a tight leash on your staff and limit their exposure to outside conferences, professional organizations and other forms of continuous education.
- Limit their activities within the organization
- Make all the important decisions yourself and make this well known
- Discourage independent action by limiting the scope of your employees' jobs
- Insist on ironclad loyalty or they get fired
- Keep expenses extremely low
- Spread negative stories about anyone who challenges your authority
- Try to catch people making mistakes to demonstrate your superiority.

People in this type of an organization feel they are locked in cages even when the door is open. They don’t trust it to even come out of their cubicles. Its sad but I’m not describing dogs. These are people.

Today’s business environment is the type that these mind control bosses become megalomaniacs. These people who worked for this overcontrolling, vindictive boss today will become basket cases if they do not find a release mechanism. I have seen these SOBs in action and it tore my insides out dealing with these creeps (because I could not take the kind of action I really wanted to take).

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by jjf on 04-24-09 04:23 PM:

Good thread Rabbitone.

Posted by teasinggtara on 04-24-09 04:29 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

For most people who have planted themselves firmly at the bottom of the spectrum of what is possible, they cannot see or believe any of this has really happened or is happening. It, in fact for them, cannot be proven by any evidentury process. As we all know, some people phish to be able to reverse engineeer. Usually the knowledgable and successful trader does not comply with these phishing requests (See teasing tara for the blatant level of phishing on behalf of her partner).

Thanks for the laugh Jack, I've missed your wacky logic.

So my ex. wants to reverse engineer SCT?

Here's what I had already posted on Why do "profitable" traders take the time to train people remotely and for a fee?...

04-24-09 05:47 AM

"My ex. taught a few traders for free. It began as occasional help to a trader that developed into a friendship that became mentoring that caught the attention of some others who asked to be included.

Why did he do it? It just kind of snowballed and he still has daily contact with the guys to see how they are doing.

Sometimes they meet up on a private forum for live trading together but he says he wouldn't do it again as it's too time consuming.

It's fine now as the guys are at a very high level of proficiency and a losing day is a shocker, but the time and effort was a one-off for him.

He did it for the fun of watching losing or just above B/e traders become hot traders and now it's more of a friendship thing.

He says part of his motivation was watching Jack Hershey make trading such a mysterious fog of confusion rather than a fast track to big profits.

He honestly believes Jack can't trade so he decided to take a small group and see how fast he could do it.

People learn fast when you show them exactly what to do. The more precision you claim to have, the more exactness there is in the technique and that is what makes for a very efficient learning curve.

Jack threads exhibit the exact opposite."

Reverse engineer SCT - that's one of your funniest Jack. Great to see you're back to your usual standard

__________________
you've been teased xx

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 04:36 PM:

Jack reverse engineers profits

Posted by jjf on 04-24-09 04:46 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Jack reverse engineers profits

what profits

Posted by GCSICLRBC on 04-24-09 04:47 PM:

I recently used the IGNORE feature on a foul-mouthed troll here on ET.

I RECOMMEND THE IGNORE FEATURE!

It works great & makes this site more of a joy to peruse / contribute to.

Happy trading all.

Posted by Redneck on 04-24-09 05:01 PM:

Rabbitone

I thought about this last night (about this topic) that I would like to share please

My mind is the most precious tool I have

Traders – whether seasoned or newbies – must always have open minds with respect to trading

Open mind = receptiveness to all ideas, thoughts, opportunities

From a newbie’s stand point – compound that openness – with an eagerness and willingness to learn.

Their minds are much more open to anything – and very receptive to it all… (How many times have we heard a newbie say “teach me I will listen and do anything you say”)

Then you come across a jack (ass) type person – spewing NLP stuff – and with egos bigger than Texas… It’s no wonder so many get taken advantage of – and end up solely, blindly, and forever – reliant on them

AND THIS IS the one thing I completely hate about our business – mess with my mind you’re messing with the very being of who I am

I won’t use the word rape (out of respect to the lady traders) but unfortunately I can think of no better word to describe the mind games some try to impart on others

My last comment....

Rely on yourself – always – for who better will take care of YOU…….

Regards Sir

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-24-09 05:08 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

The rough trader thread looks kinda nice too. Go to page 158708 to start getting a beginner education.

Quote from Redneck trader:

I won’t use the word rape (out of respect to the lady traders) but unfortunately I can think of no better word to describe the mind games some try to impart or others

Speaking of "threads" and "rapes" in the same paragraph, where the hell has Neoxx been these days.

Last I heard, he ended up buying a color printer, being personally tutored by Jack Hershey for weeks on end, and failing miserably.

It's no accident that his thread ended up in chit-chat, as that is where it always belonged.

SCT Boot Camp - another Jack Hershey Failure

__________________
...

Posted by jjf on 04-24-09 05:16 PM:

So is ET useful or just a big waste of time

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 05:24 PM:

Quote from jjf:

So is ET useful or just a big waste of time

I think with non traders like Jack and Alex taken into account you really have to treat it as light entertainment.. it's a spamfest of snake oil salesmen and the few nuggets you may find here and there are not really worth the miles and miles of shit you have to crawl through to find them

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-24-09 05:25 PM:

Quote from jjf:

So is ET useful or just a big waste of time

There are many knowledgeable people here ... you just have to be careful about who you listen to and become involved with.

It's the same as connecting with people on the internet everywhere ... be very careful.

__________________
...

Posted by Thunderdog on 04-24-09 05:36 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

Jack Hershey is a fantastic communicator. However, his communication method is not the interchange of thoughts. It is not to impart knowledge or opinions to traders but to control and influence our minds. Some of the best bad leaders using mind controllers communicate “nothing, nothing and more nothing” with excellent skills as I said out in my original post.

That is my whole point. Only a good communicator can omit information, supply disinformation and control the mind. They are brilliant “at much to do about nothing.” Mind control communication is logistics. It is to cajole you or blast you using any non informational or disinformational item at their disposal to keep you mesmerized by their prowess.

I am inclined to disagree. A good communicator actually communicates. What did Jack's post actually communicate? I would suggest that Jack is a great at obfuscation, which only passes for communication for those disinclined to pay attention. In sum, I agree with your post. However, I disagree with the label. Let us not confuse obfuscation and manipulation with actual communication. Communicators are clear. Obfuscators and manipulators are not.

__________________
I'm handing you no blarney

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 05:42 PM:

If a concept, system or methodology cannot be explained simply and concisely it is either not valid or the author is a poor communicator

Posted by jjf on 04-24-09 05:42 PM:

what does communication (good or bad) have to do with profitable trading.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 05:48 PM:

Quote from jjf:

what does communication (good or bad) have to do with profitable trading.

Nothing (Much like Jack) unless you are one of the brain dead droooling sycophants that think his drivel will lead them to the holy grail

Posted by dozu888 on 04-24-09 05:51 PM:

Quote from Thunderdog:

Rabbitone,

Interesting commentary. What do you think motivates such cultsters? Megalomania, perhaps? A pecuniary angle? A combination of the two? The reason I ask is that Jack Hershey, presumably one of the people to whom your thread refers, has not ever asked for money to my knowledge. I can barely read any of his posts to completion, if at all, and I have accused him of possessing a messianic mien and no substance. Is he simply an attention hound in your opinion?

very likely these cultsters never got enough attention from mommie when they were little - being the middle child, coming from an abusive family... you name it.

psychology 101 says these personalities have tendency to become attention seekers later in their adult life..

ET being a semi anonymous place it is, and trading being a semi science semi art skill it is, it's the perfect environment to form a cult and enjoy the warm and fuzzy that feels like sucking on mommie's nipple.

__________________
Money CAN buy happiness

Posted by Neoxx on 04-24-09 06:05 PM:

Respect should not be confused with naïveté, nor acquiescence with blind obedience.

I would not presume to dismiss another’s comments, particularly if their experience dwarfed my own. I have neither the vanity nor the temerity.

Material cannot be judged nor disregarded merely for challenging preconceptions or eluding rapid understanding.

But it’s no individual fault. It’s a sign of the times.

The culture of instant gratification.

Fickle, short-sighted and ultimately self-centred.

The problem consists of such powerfully conditioned human reflexes as laissez-faire, induced by nature’s “built-in”, instinctive, “game-playing” drives which are subconsciously operative in all living creatures, by which – often in lieu of intellect, they only inadvertently and unintentionally provide vital support of one another – as for instance do all the mammals respire all the vegetation’s vitally required carbon dioxide, while all vegetation respires all the mammals’ vitally required oxygen; or as do the honey-hunting bees inadvertently fertilize the growth of flowers with their pollen-dusting tails. It is only by the integrated coordination of myriads upon myriads of unconsciously performed inadvertencies of such “game-playing” drives that nature is able to accomplish the comprehensive ecological and metabolic regeneration of life on earth.

B. Fuller, Utopia or Oblivion

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 06:21 PM:

Quote from Redneck trader:

Rabbitone

I thought about this last night (about this topic) that I would like to share please

My mind is the most precious tool I have

Traders – whether seasoned or newbies – must always have open minds with respect to trading

Open mind = receptiveness to all ideas, thoughts, opportunities

From a newbie’s stand point – compound that openness – with an eagerness and willingness to learn.

Their minds are much more open to anything – and very receptive to it all… (How many times have we heard a newbie say “teach me I will listen and do anything you say”)

Then you come across a jack (ass) type person – spewing NLP stuff – and with egos bigger than Texas… It’s no wonder so many get taken advantage of – and end up solely, blindly, and forever – reliant on them

AND THIS IS the one thing I completely hate about our business – mess with my mind you’re messing with the very being of who I am

I won’t use the word rape (out of respect to the lady traders) but unfortunately I can think of no better word to describe the mind games some try to impart on others

My last comment....

Rely on yourself – always – for who better will take care of YOU…….

Regards Sir

RT – Your thoughts were excellent. They always open a new vista so we can all share knowledge. Here is a slightly different slant on your thoughts.

You said” My mind is the most precious tool I have.” These words say it all. If the brain is not prepared correctly there are many mind controllers waiting in the wings to take advantage of each of us. Many on ET forums have dropped their guard down and allowed their brains to be played with like toys by these mind controllers.

Why do we allow this mind control to happen? I’m reminded of Aldous Huxleys quote “If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it is because self-knowledge is painful and we prefer the pleasures of illusion.” We each harbor illusions. It is hard not to have them. But if we approach learning on forums like ET with our objective to fulfill these illusions we can all (my self include) be taken in by those who wish to control our minds.

Trading is so much a test of our self-knowledge; if you are ill prepared to take care of YOU, as RT noted, than trading will rip you apart. When you add mind controllers to your trading it is a dangerous mix. These mind controllers can take you in directions if you knew your self thoroughly you would not go in.

When “From a newbie’s stand point – compound that openness – with an eagerness and willingness to learn” mind controllers are there to take over these newbie’s illusions. These new traders are willing to accept false and misleading trading premises not because these methods do not work, but because it is too painful to understand self knowledge and how they really function.

You said” Their minds are much more open to anything – and very receptive to it all… (How many times have we heard a newbie say “teach me I will listen and do anything you say”) “ This is where mind controllers drive these new traders into the grounds of submission. When the “newbie” tries the new trading technique and they fail to make the trade work, the mind controller has a field day. They rip the newbie up and down for not using their method. And because the trade is over the mind controller states exactly how it should have been done to exact measurements (but, never show their trade which actually lost money).

Almost every ET thread shows signs of traders warding off mind control. This is why many replies on ET are characterized with such violent repulsiveness. These traders refuse to be mind controlled in any form and let other traders know it. They know they can’t let there guard down for a moment or some one will be picking their brain apart to control it.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 06:37 PM:

Quote from dozu888:

very likely these cultsters never got enough attention from mommie when they were little - being the middle child, coming from an abusive family... you name it.

psychology 101 says these personalities have tendency to become attention seekers later in their adult life..

ET being a semi anonymous place it is, and trading being a semi science semi art skill it is, it's the perfect environment to form a cult and enjoy the warm and fuzzy that feels like sucking on mommie's nipple.

Yes, the psychodynamics of these mind controllers based on emotional forces or processes developing especially in early childhood would be an interesting area to examine.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 06:46 PM:

Quote from Neoxx:

Respect should not be confused with naïveté, nor acquiescence with blind obedience.

I would not presume to dismiss another’s comments, particularly if their experience dwarfed my own. I have neither the vanity nor the temerity.

Material cannot be judged nor disregarded merely for challenging preconceptions or eluding rapid understanding.

But it’s no individual fault. It’s a sign of the times.

The culture of instant gratification.

Fickle, short-sighted and ultimately self-centred.

Those are nicely worded thoughts.

But for traders and mind control I see it slightly different:

We should know what our convictions are, and stand for them. Upon one's own philosophy, conscious or unconscious, depends one's ultimate interpretation of facts. Therefore it is wise to be as clear as possible about one's subjective principles. As the man is, so will be his ultimate truth. – Carl Jung

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by jjf on 04-24-09 07:06 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

Almost every ET thread shows signs of traders warding off mind control. This is why many replies on ET are characterized with such violent repulsiveness. These traders refuse to be mind controlled in any form and let other traders know it. They know they can’t let there guard down for a moment or some one will be picking their brain apart to control it.

Interesting point of view.
I would have thought that a skillful self aware Trader would approach a forum such as ET in a far more relaxed manner.

Posted by Banff01 on 04-24-09 07:12 PM:

Let's try to take a look at these manipulators from a different vantage point. For example, what do these ET manipulators have in common with leaders of religious cults? One thing that they have in common is an offer of salvation if you follow them and a guaranteed etternal damnation if you don't. Note that most people get into trading to make money because somewhere deep inside they believe that money will in fact provide salvation from all their current problems. So while the manipulator does not neccessarily talk directly about salvation, it is a salvation for the follower. The salvation of course must never come because that would only mean that the followers leave.

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-24-09 07:16 PM:

Quote from Neoxx:

Respect should not be confused with naïveté, nor acquiescence with blind obedience.

I would not presume to dismiss another’s comments, particularly if their experience dwarfed my own. I have neither the vanity nor the temerity.

Material cannot be judged nor disregarded merely for challenging preconceptions or eluding rapid understanding.

But it’s no individual fault. It’s a sign of the times.

The culture of instant gratification.

Fickle, short-sighted and ultimately self-centred.

Still with the fancy words and pretty prose, eh Neoxx?

I would think your months of catyclismic failure trading SCT would have at least humbled you, but obviously that is not the case.

Quote from Banff01:

... while the manipulator does not neccessarily talk directly about salvation, it is a salvation for the follower. The salvation of course must never come because that would only mean that the followers leave.

Some people are going to drink the kool-aid no matter what anyone else says.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 07:21 PM:

Quote from Neoxx:

Respect should not be confused with naïveté

And your delusion should not be confused with confidence and persistence.. SCT boot camp failed spectacularly and you are suffering from the same lack of success in the idiotic refinement thread.. some people deserve to be fodder for the markets

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 07:29 PM:

Quote from jjf:

Interesting point of view.
I would have thought that a skillful self aware Trader would approach a forum such as ET in a far more relaxed manner.

Skillful traders do approach ET in a more relaxed manor. They have self confidence in their methods and know themselves. However, when they enter a response in a mind controller’s thread or about a mind controller’s comments all hell breaks loose. This response is not in-line with the mind controller. That’s when they get crushed with replies telling them to move on if they don’t like the thoughts being presented or are told how “stupid” or like an idiot they are. There is no room to discuss alternative thoughts or methods.

This is when you see the violent repulsiveness I spoke about come from these traders. It is that or submit to the mind controller so they can continue being on the thread. Most seasoned traders leave rather than submit to the mind control.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Neoxx on 04-24-09 07:33 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

Upon one's own philosophy, conscious or unconscious, depends one's ultimate interpretation of facts...

...As the man is, so will be his ultimate truth. – Carl Jung

Couldn't have said it better.

That's one reason why there are still people who deny climate change.

Posted by teasinggtara on 04-24-09 07:34 PM:

Quote from Banff01:

Let's try to take a look at these manipulators from a different vantage point. For example, what do these ET manipulators have in common with leaders of religious cults? One thing that they have in common is an offer of salvation if you follow them and a guaranteed etternal damnation if you don't. Note that most people get into trading to make money because somewhere deep inside they believe that money will in fact provide salvation from all their current problems. So while the manipulator does not neccessarily talk directly about salvation, it is a salvation for the follower. The salvation of course must never come because that would only mean that the followers leave.

Incisive comment. Jack offers salvation with his grand claims void of substance or evidence, but all in all it's a bit of comical entertainment watching how he sucks in the naive and their daft attempts to make it work.

But Jack also says things like "you have elected not to participate with the markets", or "you have elected not to learn" etc. if you call his bluff, as if it's SCT or the highway to trading hell.

The reality is the guys spend years discussing where the channel lines should go and cheering Mr Black on while he breaks Jack's rules, and I get my weekends entertainment with a DVD, good food, bottle of wine and reading Hershey's voodoo comments.

There's some brilliant one's this week. You need a detachable jaw like a Burmese Python to swallow them.

Thanks Jack

__________________
you've been teased xx

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 07:43 PM:

Quote from jjf:

what does communication (good or bad) have to do with profitable trading.

Communication is a test of who you are. You are what you think.

Can you state explicitly what style of trading and what methods in that trading you will use for the remainder of your life. No? Then you may be the target of a mind controller plying their thoughts on you.

If you are well grounded, know yourself and your trading they can’t get to you. The most you will do tweak what you do. But, that will happen rarely.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by jjf on 04-24-09 07:47 PM:

Interesting couple of responses Rabbitone.

Would you say that you are a mind controller by your own definition.

Posted by zdreg on 04-24-09 07:50 PM:

]"ET is filled with want to be cult leaders who are filling newbie and even experienced trader’s heads with rubbish. "

rabbit...
________________________________
some of them even will try to do the same with women once they have developed the courage to talk to them.
1st they start with newbies than they will go on to women. it sounds like a good plan.

Posted by TraderZones on 04-24-09 07:53 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

This thread is really getting kind of funny. So is the thread about the obvious.

...

LOL What a funny guy you turned out to be.

Speaking of funny guy, how many times have you announced you were leaving EliteTrader, Jack?? As you put it, "out of respect for Baron?"

What, now you DISrespect baron???

Posted by jack hershey on 04-24-09 08:02 PM:

Quote from Neoxx:

Respect should not be confused with naïveté, nor acquiescence with blind obedience.

I would not presume to dismiss another’s comments, particularly if their experience dwarfed my own. I have neither the vanity nor the temerity.

Material cannot be judged nor disregarded merely for challenging preconceptions or eluding rapid understanding.

But it’s no individual fault. It’s a sign of the times.

The culture of instant gratification.

Fickle, short-sighted and ultimately self-centred.

I had the rare pleasure of working with bucky for the last three years of his life. (At the University City Science Center (UCSC) a consortium of 29 colleges and universities.) Many people, to this day send me copies of his writings of media stories since they know our past relationship.

His twin, E. F. Schumacher, came to the US just after Carter had formed his cabinet. Carter gave his cabinet one book to read: "Small is Beautiful". Then, I was Chairman of the Board of NCAT where I had initially represented Carter during its formation. It was a CSA outgrowth of Seargent Shriver's work (OEO) with the poor under Kennedy. Some of us on the board had the pleasure of introducing Schumacher to Carter.

Appropriate Technology was important and the National Center for Appropriate Technology. This off beat thread is so inappropriate as a commentary on people like Fuller, Schumacher, G. W. Carver, the Lindbergs, Franklin and so many others of those who changed the world's thinking.

The wonder of funding people with ideas year after year and decade after decade is the most personally rewarding experience possible. Creating the pool extraction algorithm and passing it forward was no exception and it was necesary that the PC and the copier came along as well.

Here in this thread we see the warped distortions that come from the crippling of the mind in the many ways that are demonstrated.

Learning to learn is so valuable. Being at choice is so valuable too.

It was amazing to see the OP of this thread appear. As thunderdog often says "unbelievable" and "astonishing". All spectator crap in the OP.

Here is what is available:

Two like kind hypotheses that are mutually exclusive. The dream come true that elininated probability from trading.

One parametric measure: time rate of change of the two variables.

And three priors that dictates the means to make money in markets using the timing the hypotheses and their single measure provides.

Thus a complete paradigm (algorithm) founded on the integration of four intellectual theories. The true one pager as they say.

So markets were invented. Their owners gave the market rules of operation. These living things continually offer. Anyone can take the offer since there is not even a threshold barring participation.

People choose not to make money by taking the offer continually. The record is here in ET for anyone to make use of. five years of passing it forward. I see the effort as 10% of my trading career.

At Rutgers recently they measured how this terrible mental distortion that affects failed traders comes to be. (See page 78 of the 11APR09 economist as I have mentioned.)

Stress distorts intuition and analysis. Stress comes from choice to do and doing mistaken things.

Franklin printed money for colonies under contract. He had to design the money. He did it by making it counterfit proof as well. He put a different leaf on each denomination, including all the smallest sinews. An idea. Try creating a leaf for use in moveable type. So very cool. Most of my life I read his autobiography several times a year. Now I have bifocals like the one Franklin invented as he grew older and needed them. Neat how the tops and bottoms are in the right places.

Why do most traders fail? It is more than just their mistaken inventions that do not work. Money apparently really screws up the minds of people who do not have money.

Reading B people is a study in the irreversable results of distorted mind damage which is the consequence of self induced stress. All the result of free choice in actions and decisions.

maybe the OP could spend his time explaining how these B people went through their personal descriptions over time of how they permanently destroyed their opportunity to make money trading. One by one, like designng money that won't be counterfitted by n00bies. Because the n00by can see it is not worth the duplication of something that is busted.

Give yourself the pleasure of picking one of these B people and reading, chronologically how they screwed themselves permanetly. Scare yourself a little.

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 08:02 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

If a concept, system or methodology cannot be explained simply and concisely it is either not valid or the author is a poor communicator

Communication can be out of this world by an author. But most traders never get it. It does not have to do with the author. It has to do with you.

Many of these mind controllers present exact systems. Then they sell you deluxe tools and services to trade their way. Guess what. Most of the traders adopting these systems find they are not wired right to trade their systems even though they could make profits with the system.

This happens because they don’t understand themselves and what their true internal style of trading is all about. Many traders suffer for years trying all sorts of odd trading before they know themselves. Some take a life time. Many never do make it through the process.

Then on top of this you throw in the learning curve you must pay the market. It adds up to a big bill and a lot of mental anguish. In the process you can spend $100,000 in time, books, instruction to learn what a good look in the mirror can provide. You can not avoid a “honest” self inventory or you will fail in trading.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by teasinggtara on 04-24-09 08:11 PM:

Quote from Neoxx:

Couldn't have said it better.

That's one reason why there are still people who deny climate change.

Now you are making sense Neoxx. Al gore, Jack Hershey, philosophy and a big pot.

Al Gore is working his but off to convince the world that planet earth is about to self destruct and our greenhouse gas is the cause.

But in order to make his mind control succeed 700 of the worlds top scientists who deny this is possible have to get close to zero media coverage.

Like real traders questioning the truth about SCT, these scientists prove conclusively the evidence not only doesn't stack up, but it stacks up against the argument of man causing climate change.

All mind control addicts like Jack, Al Gore et al. back off from face to face confrontation when they need to produce hard evidence rather than fantasy to prove their claims.

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/429/R...ssional-Hearing

__________________
you've been teased xx

Posted by jack hershey on 04-24-09 08:12 PM:

Quote from TraderZones:

Speaking of funny guy, how many times have you announced you were leaving EliteTrader, Jack?? As you put it, "out of respect for Baron?"

What, now you DISrespect baron???

No, not at all.

I had a series of tasks to do and, temporarily, I am ahead of where I need to be for a few days.

I also had eye surgury and my vision is coming back a little. I also had to go through two regimes of antibiotics which took a toll on me.

With reference to my last post, here is a guy who has gone through three phases of getting to where he is and out of the money so to speak.

Look over the beginning phishing and queery.

Then follow the vendor moment (it was brief apparently). Cheap pricing though; low six digits.

Finally, examine his permanent resting place.

As has ben suggested by contributors here, you can entitle the bio: "If I Can't Do It Nobody Can". There are a few handle changes along the way, too.

Be sure to put an Appendix in called CV. There you see this guy went to college and had a major that could relate to the financial industry. Also add a section on "type sizing"; it is sort of a signature.

Posted by jjf on 04-24-09 08:18 PM:

Quote from jjf:

Interesting couple of responses Rabbitone.

Would you say that you are a mind controller by your own definition.

There is nothing more to this question than the sum of the words.

I am just interested to read how you view yourself on this thread.

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 08:23 PM:

Quote from jjf:

Interesting couple of responses Rabbitone.

Would you say that you are a mind controller by your own definition.

Yes, you must assume I am a mind controller. I have studied this area in depth because I have personally seen the destruction it can cause on individuals in trading and out. My language and my retorts could be interrupted this way.

The one difference between me and the other mind controllers is I implore you to learn to repulse these kind of controls (including mine) when you see them and perform a trading self examination that leaves no holes in your armor.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by jjf on 04-24-09 08:32 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

Yes, you must assume I am a mind controller. I have studied this area in depth because I have personally seen the destruction it can cause on individuals in trading and out. My language and my retorts could be interrupted this way.

The one difference between me and the other mind controllers is I implore you to learn to repulse these kind of controls (including mine) when you see them and perform a trading self examination that leaves no holes in your armor.

I appreciate your candor Rabbitone, even though I try as I may to avoid making assumptions and thereby drawing incorrect conclusions.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 08:36 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

No, not at all.

I had a series of tasks to do and, temporarily, I am ahead of where I need to be for a few days.

That's not an answer (as usual) You left here out of respect for Baron.. so we can only assume you have no respect for him when you keep coming back and the real reason you leave is because you are challenged to trading contests and start clucking like a chicken

Posted by jack hershey on 04-24-09 08:46 PM:

Quote from teasinggtara:

Now you are making sense Neoxx. Al gore, Jack Hershey, philosophy and a big pot.

Al Gore is working his but off to convince the world that planet earth is about to self destruct and our greenhouse gas is the cause.

But in order to make his mind control succeed 700 of the worlds top scientists who deny this is possible have to get close to zero media coverage.

Like real traders questioning the truth about SCT, these scientists prove conclusively the evidence not only doesn't stack up, but it stacks up against the argument of man causing climate change.

All mind control addicts like Jack, Al Gore et al. back off from face to face confrontation when they need to produce hard evidence rather than fantasy to prove their claims.

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/429/R...ssional-Hearing

This is a shot I took in JAN08. The icebergs were about a mile on a side. About 200 above water is what shows. These bergs are travelling west through the Antactica channel.

The animals in this area are experiencing a shift in habitat change of about 50 miles a year.

By February 2008 the size had changed to 5 miles on a side.

I began my photography on global warming seriously in 1967 mostly locally where I lived (Switzerland). mostly everyone there who was involved in the climbing and skiing industry ws well aware of the delta over time.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 09:02 PM:

You'll have to excuse Jack not being able to keep his stories straight.. with so many and his advancing age it's nigh on impossible

Posted by jack hershey on 04-24-09 09:10 PM:

You may note the compression clouds streaming east in the pic.

As you see the higher the altitude the cleaner the compression cloud stream is. there are good reasons which are well noted in the research of locals.

The wind runs at 40 knots commonly and against the flow of the bergs which are moving according to currents.

In the pic below it is now March of 2008. here the piece of ice, an iceberg, is 6180 ssquare miles and a little taller than 200 feet. for reference this single engine plane is about 1500 feet up and headed parallel to the long dimension of the berg.

this year the place where these bergs calve has changed even more. The connection between the continent and the offshore islands which had a permanent bridge is now broken and it was about 2000 feet thick at the thinest.

People like you believe, generally, that these are just anomalies that cycle occasionally over hundreds of years.

As an packer type explorer in the North, I have chatted with those who have observed for these several hundred year intervals. They pass the oral hitory don and scientists follow the fisheries. While exploring I got to see the fish whose DNA is tracked. currently some of the population travel a 150 mile route and others go over 1500 miles by habit. What caused their choice to appear happened in 1732, the year of washington's birth. A glacier moved. One of those things that calve icebergs. It moved again and the old path was reopened giving two choices.

A series of changes was used to see trends that are not reversable.

You may not be a professional explorer hired by various nations or the united Nations. I was and there was a purpose. Long range planning primarily.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 09:12 PM:

Jack is a world class adventurer now

Is this like SCT and only in hindsight?

On Jacks gravestone they will have to enscribe: amatuer of all, master of none!

Posted by Fractals 'R Us on 04-24-09 09:29 PM:

This is a useful thread Rabbit, thanks.. mind controllers are among us, some are very bullying about it [narcisstic personality disorder and psychopaths], some are not but when challenged they can become forceful.. I'm trying to get this sorted out.. the mo of a bully is not complex at it's core. They treat people on their own level and lower, people that they don't need to advance their agenda basically, badly. They treat people that are above them or ones that they can use to advance their agenda quite well, they kiss up to them unabashedley really... Do these mind controllers do that? Are they just bullies with a bent towards psychological control? Maybe they are bullies that don't want to kiss a bosses' ass, they want to make their own little culture and be in charge of it? Sort of more entreprenurial with their little bullying thingy they do? Bullying works because the people getting their ass kissed don't understand the bully is going to be treating lots of other people badly and the people being treated badly dont' know that the bully kisses up to the bosses... so I guess some of them take it to the next level and go into a new and bigger arena where they create followers for themselves... they must feel entitled to a lot more of everything than ordinary people... entitlement is a big part of all the personality disorders seemingly..

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 09:34 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

You may not be a professional explorer hired by various nations or the united Nations. I was and there was a purpose.

Gee Jack you spend all day on the internet in various trading chatrooms 365 days a year writing voluminous drivel with the exception of the odd hospital stay and yet still find time to rival Jacques Cousteau.. hmmm

Do you wear your batman suit or the tux and ponytail?

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-24-09 09:54 PM:

Quote from Fractals 'R Us:

This is a useful thread Rabbit, thanks.. mind controllers are among us, some are very bullying about it [narcisstic personality disorder and psychopaths], some are not but when challenged they can become forceful.. I'm trying to get this sorted out.. the mo of a bully is not complex at it's core. They treat people on their own level and lower, people that they don't need to advance their agenda basically, badly. They treat people that are above them or ones that they can use to advance their agenda quite well, they kiss up to them unabashedley really... Do these mind controllers do that? Are they just bullies with a bent towards psychological control? Maybe they are bullies that don't want to kiss a bosses' ass, they want to make their own little culture and be in charge of it? Sort of more entreprenurial with their little bullying thingy they do? Bullying works because the people getting their ass kissed don't understand the bully is going to be treating lots of other people badly and the people being treated badly dont' know that the bully kisses up to the bosses... so I guess some of them take it to the next level and go into a new and bigger arena where they create followers for themselves... they must feel entitled to a lot more of everything than ordinary people... entitlement is a big part of all the personality disorders seemingly..

I have read up on this area quite a bit. Here is the way I read it.

Bullying is a big problem in our forums, businesses and schools. However, bullying has always been a problem. The main differences between bullying today from the past are the nature of the bullying and the violence that often occurs in the aftermath. A mind control technique called Cyberbullying is now becoming a popular on the internet and is more destructive form of bullying than traditional verbal bullying. For example more children today are bringing guns to school to seek revenge on others for the Cyberbullying that was done to them on the internet.

Typically, mind control bullies and their victims share the same characteristic - low self-esteem. It just depends on whether they internalize or externalize their feelings that will determine if they will become a bully or a victim of bullying. Typically, negative situations (trading problems) and events in the trader’s life can trigger low self-esteem. As a result, the trader might take out his or her rage on others in the thread for purposes of seeking control to compensate for his or her lack of control in their life or in their own trading. In cases like this, externalizing feelings can cause the traders to become bullies as they attempt to control their environment to compensate for their lack of control in their family and their trading.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 10:19 PM:

A million years of genetic hardwiring versus 5000 years of civilisation.. no prizes for guessing who wins that one

Posted by nkhoi on 04-24-09 10:46 PM:

where is trader666?

Posted by Fractals 'R Us on 04-24-09 10:58 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

where is trader666?

He cyberbullied... he had to go. It was his self esteem or mine, I was decisive

Posted by jack hershey on 04-24-09 11:05 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

where is trader666?

LOL

Looks like Steven has gone hyper though. Traderzones is nailing me for my absence and Steven is always seeing me as present. It is too funny.

I can still remember the four digit door codes at Rosenthal Collins. I certainly can't survive the Chi or NYC weather, though.

Posted by jack hershey on 04-24-09 11:14 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Gee Jack you spend all day on the internet in various trading chatrooms 365 days a year writing voluminous drivel with the exception of the odd hospital stay and yet still find time to rival Jacques Cousteau.. hmmm

Do you wear your batman suit or the tux and ponytail?

LOL

I guess I'll have to piss on an iceberg and name it after you......

LOL

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 11:15 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

I guess I'll have to piss on an iceberg and name it after you......

The closest you'll get to any ice is the cubes you have in your cheap discount scotch

Posted by doli on 04-24-09 11:23 PM:

Quote from Thunderdog:

I am inclined to disagree. A good communicator actually communicates. What did Jack's post actually communicate? I would suggest that Jack is a great at obfuscation, which only passes for communication for those disinclined to pay attention. In sum, I agree with your post. However, I disagree with the label. Let us not confuse obfuscation and manipulation with actual communication. Communicators are clear. Obfuscators and manipulators are not.

But you have to understand that there are a lot of people who, when they read/hear something and become confused, think that they're reading/hearing something profound. So, they think that something can be learned from that "communicator." Some innocently "communicate" that way; others deliberately "communicate" that way to exploit people.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-24-09 11:30 PM:

It is no coincidence that 90% of Jacks followers are not native English speakers.. they mistake Jacks poorly executed NLP for complicated wisdom.. the only mystery is how long they take to work out that neither Jack or Spyder have ever made any money

Posted by Trader666 on 04-25-09 02:44 AM:

Here I am!

Quote from nkhoi:

where is trader666?

Hi Jack, I wish you a speedy recovery

Down to business... if rough trader really did take $1.5K to $94K "trading a simple level of the SCT method" as you claim, then it should have been easy for you to turn $10,000 into $1 million in 100 days like you promised your IBD group you would. http://www.mediafire.com/?1gi2qygm3yh What happened?

P.S. I recall you also saying Neoxx was doubling his money every three days but that turned out to be BS.

Quote from jack hershey:

For SCT like trading, rough trader takes 1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars from page 1 to the current page. He is trading a simple level of the SCT method and, as you see he has a plan to add contracts from profits. He has gone from 1 to 3 contracts in a few weeks.

Posted by teasinggtara on 04-25-09 05:18 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

...People like you believe, generally, that these are just anomalies that cycle occasionally over hundreds of years...

...You may not be a professional explorer hired by various nations or the united Nations. I was and there was a purpose. Long range planning primarily...

I have to admit for some strange reason I have not been hired by the United Nations to inform them as to the truth about man made Global Warming Claims, and nor have I been a "professional" explorer, funny enough.

But choosing between your claims and 700 scientists with these credentials is admittedly a difficult struggle for "people like me." I'm almost leaning your way and rejecting this lot...

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index....f1-fc38ed4f85e3

Nice photos and great stories. Jack, were you by any chance involved in space exploration?

If you were I'd love to hear about it.

__________________
you've been teased xx

Posted by MKTrader on 04-25-09 05:25 AM:

Re: Re: Mind Control 101 – Trading cults in ET

Quote from lolatBushites:

What you posted goes for any cult. How is this different than Jesus saying Salvation is only through him (ugh?!).

You missed the key ingredient that makes a cult leader successful. Gullible sheep. Why don't you bypass the guru and begin to follow the markets? same as why don't sheep bypass Jesus and have the same conversation with their God?

There is a reason most who fall for these cults are religious individuals. They've already been conditioned to believe blindly. Same reason why charlatans get re-elected in the south or why most MLM and small time Ponzi schemes work well in the South. The masses there have already been programmed.

This from the most obviously brainwashed drone at ET.

Posted by fearless9 on 04-25-09 12:00 PM:

good morning,

I see that JH is taking "incoming" again.

It is my opinion from my years of travel and living on planet earth that the most difficult and therefore most elusive task facing each and everyone of us, is to take control of our own lives.
This involves an ever increasing level of Self appraisal and Self honesty until a certain point of detachment is reached, whereby you can see very clearly the games that are played out around you, and yet they neither bother nor involve you.

This is the point where trading (and other matters that matter) become obvious.

To even approach this point requires the undoing of all the conditioning that has been imposed upon you from your day of birth.
It really does not matter whether it was well intentioned or whether it was not; the point is that it does not belong to you and therefore is taking up space that actually belongs to you.
There really is not much more to add, as the human mind is more than capable of abundantly caring for itself and it's host (you).
All it requires is a kick-start in the form of clearing away the debris from past storms.

As always, if there is anything in this post that does not suit you, then just simply ignore it.

regards
f9

Posted by Redneck on 04-25-09 03:00 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

good morning,

I see that JH is taking "incoming" again.

It is my opinion from my years of travel and living on planet earth that the most difficult and therefore most elusive task facing each and everyone of us, is to take control of our own lives.
This involves an ever increasing level of Self appraisal and Self honesty until a certain point of detachment is reached, whereby you can see very clearly the games that are played out around you, and yet they neither bother nor involve you.

This is the point where trading (and other matters that matter) become obvious.

To even approach this point requires the undoing of all the conditioning that has been imposed upon you from your day of birth.
It really does not matter whether it was well intentioned or whether it was not; the point is that it does not belong to you and therefore is taking up space that actually belongs to you.
There really is not much more to add, as the human mind is more than capable of abundantly caring for itself and it's host (you).
All it requires is a kick-start in the form of clearing away the debris from past storms.

As always, if there is anything in this post that does not suit you, then just simply ignore it.

regards
f9

F9

FWIW – This is beautiful Sir

Thanks

Posted by Eight on 04-25-09 04:02 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

good morning,

I see that JH is taking "incoming" again.

It is my opinion from my years of travel and living on planet earth that the most difficult and therefore most elusive task facing each and everyone of us, is to take control of our own lives.
This involves an ever increasing level of Self appraisal and Self honesty until a certain point of detachment is reached, whereby you can see very clearly the games that are played out around you, and yet they neither bother nor involve you.

This is the point where trading (and other matters that matter) become obvious.

To even approach this point requires the undoing of all the conditioning that has been imposed upon you from your day of birth.
It really does not matter whether it was well intentioned or whether it was not; the point is that it does not belong to you and therefore is taking up space that actually belongs to you.
There really is not much more to add, as the human mind is more than capable of abundantly caring for itself and it's host (you).
All it requires is a kick-start in the form of clearing away the debris from past storms.

As always, if there is anything in this post that does not suit you, then just simply ignore it.

regards
f9

Psychologists have discovered that the way a human matures is that they learn everything they can up to about the mid teenage years then they busy themselves unlearning what they deem to be untrue. When we start trading it seems that we repeat the process, we learn horrendous amounts of stuff over a period of time and then we spend more time in the unlearning process.. they have also learned that people are greatly affected by trauma, they are changed at moments of traumatic events.. I'd say that learning to trade replicates the ordinary growing process since there is a horrible amount of stuff to learn and discard and it replicates a screwed up life as in the case of somebody that undergoes childhood trauma because early stage traders are going to get some trauma...

Posted by Trader666 on 04-25-09 04:41 PM:

Jack, that's incredibly magnanimous and I'm sure you have the bluest piss on ET but the implication is that this is one of your photos... I remember seeing it before so did a little digging.

In reality this pic was taken by Norwegian sailor Oyvind Tangen and it's all over the internet.
http://tiny.cc/VySGa

Quote from jack hershey:

LOL

I guess I'll have to piss on an iceberg and name it after you......

LOL

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 05:56 PM:

Quote from Trader666:

Jack, that's incredibly magnanimous and I'm sure you have the bluest piss on ET but the implication is that this is one of your photos... I remember seeing it before so did a little digging.

In reality this pic was taken by Norwegian sailor Oyvind Tangen and it's all over the internet.

Aaaaaaaaaahahahahaaaa.. Jack our intrepid adventurer.. it all happens in his mind

Posted by IronFist on 04-25-09 06:26 PM:

Agreed 100% with the original post.

But to the OP, you are trying to force people to take the "red pill," per se. People do not want to be aware of what is actually happening; they want to keep "buying the dream."

Have a look at those internet "sales pages" that are like 400 pixels wide and a mile from top to bottom, full of pictures of Ferraris, Mansions, etc., all "belonging" to the author who is selling some "Get rich quick online" scam. Now, to an intelligent person, these pages scream *OBVIOUS* scam. But to the other 80% of the population, they're like "omg, who do I give my credit card numbers to?? I want this NOW!!!"

And then when it doesn't make them a million dollars over night, they go on to the next thing.

But back onto your topic, this is why I always make such a big deal when someone gives a bullshit ambiguous answer to an honest question.

A newbie trader will ask "I am confused, based on your method, what exactly do I do when criteria a, b, and c occur?" A legit question.

And the bullshit "guru" will say something ambiguous and useless like "do what price tells you to do."

And then one of two things happen:

1. The newbie trader realizes the "guru" is actually an idiot, and even if the guru can actually trade, he obviously cannot teach, and doesn't spend any more time with him

or, more commonly:

2. The newbie trader believes the "guru" is full of vast wisdom and, like a fortune cookie, is expressing vast wisdom through a simple parable, and decides to stay with the guru or spend more money on the guru's bullshit products.

There are a few (rather long) threads on this forum posted by gurus that basically read like "how to" manuals for being a bullshitter.

I made a similar post a few months ago called Trading needs the same "revolution" that martial arts went through 15 years ago" where I talked about all the bullshit and how people continue to buy into bullshit that doesn't work.

Here's part of a relevant post by me from that thread:

From IronFist
My whole point for this thread was people should stop listening to people who don't have a proven track record of knowing what they're talking about. Or at least stop putting faith in what they say. If they're unable/unwilling to clarify for you, they're probably full of shit, and if not, then they're just not willing to share with you, so move on.

You deserve better. If someone gives you a bullshit fortune cookie answer, call them on it. Don't sit there pondering the deep meaning of what the master is talking about for the next 2 weeks while you continue to make bad trades.

The same thing applies to dealing with salesmen. I often say to salesmen, after a long pitch, "but you didn't answer my question." And then I usually leave about 5 seconds later if the next words out of their mouths are not "the answer to your question is...".

It happens ALL THE TIME on ET and people continue to accept it.

Posted by IronFist on 04-25-09 06:30 PM:

here's a pic I made for all the bullshit ambiguous mystic fortune cookie answers the "gurus" give on ET:

Posted by nkhoi on 04-25-09 06:34 PM:

Quote from IronFist:

...
And the bullshit "guru" will say something ambiguous and useless like "do what price tells you to do."
...

Let's rephrase it; Do what price tells you to do not what "guru" tells you to do.

Posted by IronFist on 04-25-09 07:02 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

Let's rephrase it; Do what price tells you to do not what "guru" tells you to do.

But "do what price tells you to do" is ambiguous.

It's a setup so that afterward, the guru can tell you what the right thing was without actually having to accurately predict it beforehand like he would if he were actually trading.

Ambiguous advice is worthless. Objective advice is the only kind that is helpful.

Ambiguous:
"Do what price tells you to do."

Objective:
"Do x in condition y but not condition z."

I have never, ever seen an ET guru give objective advice.

Posted by jack hershey on 04-25-09 07:06 PM:

Quote from Trader666:

Jack, that's incredibly magnanimous and I'm sure you have the bluest piss on ET but the implication is that this is one of your photos... I remember seeing it before so did a little digging.

In reality this pic was taken by Norwegian sailor Oyvind Tangen and it's all over the internet.
http://tiny.cc/VySGa

I didn't take the March 2008 picture either.

Mostly everyone in my situation has power point slide shows on various aspects of the environment and global warming. In January of 2008 over a 20 day period I only took 4500 shots.

Vin's pic is well known for several reasons. As icebergs travel they melt. The best shots for showing this are along the East coast of Greenland. The calving periodicty is uniform and the currents simply turn the lines slowly as they move Eastward so spirals are created that are miles and miles in length. My rolls of film were shot @ over 30K feet on a flight direction of about 210.
Blue depicts higher pressure and white depicts lower pressure. As you see this berg has rotated several times as it melts underwater (salt water). The berg is made of frozen fresh water.

Originally, it ws 90 degrees from what you see. Those are layers formed over many centuries in a desert type climate and near the pole. Outside of the southern pole the winds flow unabaited by any land mass as they circumnavigate the globe going from West to East. Sountamerica's Andes turn more and more East as they go South. The similar spine on Antarctica flow north and turns East as well. This funnel compresses the westerly winds and they speed up and isolate the continent from any incoming weather to the pole. But, as in Grenland about 2 miles of glacial hard pack has accumulated under desert conditions.

So the layers build up and at the bottom of the pile the pressure gets fairly nice for changing the color of the hard pack to blue.

I met Admiral Byrd in 1939. He was aboard his aluminum four wheel antarctic vehicle. It has just been fitted with new rubber tires that looked like OTR tires. I got to meet him because my dad was a player in the science of extemes and primarily air flight by air ships like the Hindenbergh. The rubber tires were made at the same place the US dirrigibles were made. Byrd always took an Eagle Scout with him so I did that to prepare to be chosen. after 1941 this wasn't possible anymore. So I figured out to go places and do things like he did and I was hired to do it after a while.

vin checked out that berg for several reasons. The top was the verybottom early in its calving. It flipped and the new top never went back in the water. At one time all of the beg was sidways (90 degrees off) and the blue/white portion seams were melted out as you see. Above them you see the surface air interface from befoe that time (the smooth curvy horizontal seam). Now you see the air surface interface is undercutting the current position and this, while balanced now, will cause some nice rotation and snow will probably fill the vertical cerations you now see.

As days go by, you get to see all the steps of glaciers, icebergs calving and currents carrying and shaping the bergs. There are rules of navigation and safe guarding your ship. Liz will not go below a certain size and I like a ship that can turn on its keel without moving fore and aft. The joke is that you should be sure you have the skipper's wife and kids on board too. In the South gtting inside 65 degrees is difficult since the continent extends out quite far. When you do the weather is usually closed in but the Sun doesn't go down wherever it is above the white outs.

Explorers and travelers like to get together. In tucson there are a lot of them. It is like a floating crap game but with the pics and slide shows. It is funny to hear a person say we took off and couldn't get there. (bucking the winds was too much). Once our skipper apolied to everyone for not letting use sleep during the night. Under full power he had to tack and the seas would impact the hull so loudly that the noise and vibs were relentless. the constant sliding around the matress was an event as well. we could make more than 12 knots when ordinarily we would make 23.

the tides in the atlantic and Pacific are different from the tides of the Antacrtic Ocean. If you take a 0 azmith from cape horn just below the eastern ned of the Beagle Passage, you get to pass through this location whose name is "the convergence". the unabaited winds create waves on the swells and tides insulting each other all add up to water being able the climb the sides of ships and push them around for a while. Our outside tv cameras were twisted on their mounts. Decks weren't used because doors could not be handled. All the upper deck rooms and suites were found to not be waterproof if you had an accessable balcony.

From the latitude of the Beagle Passage south there is ice in the sea (sea ice). An ice capitain is required and he runs things.

At the beginning of the season it is worst. Here is a pic of what turning a ship in sea ice can cause.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 07:20 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

I didn't take the March 2008 picture either.

Like everything else in your life Jack your success is a figment of your imagination.. you tried to make out you were some kind of explorer but you've never missed a day of pushing your drivel on the net

Posted by Trader666 on 04-25-09 08:32 PM:

Taking a closer look... this is yet another fairy tale because if you go to the last page of rough trader's journal you'll see that his "to date PNL" is less than $10K and his account balance is $95K. Which means he went from around $85K to $95K, NOT from "1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars." Which is an increase of almost 12% as opposed to around 6200%.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...=6&pagenumber=9

Big surprise, just like Neoxx was doubling his money every three days

Quote from jack hershey:

For SCT like trading, rough trader takes 1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars from page 1 to the current page. He is trading a simple level of the SCT method and, as you see he has a plan to add contracts from profits. He has gone from 1 to 3 contracts in a few weeks.

Posted by jack hershey on 04-25-09 08:57 PM:

Quote from Trader666:

Taking a closer look... this is yet another fairy tale because if you go to the last page of rough trader's journal you'll see that his "to date PNL" is less than $10K and his account balance is $95K. Which means he went from around $85K to $95K, NOT from "1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars." Which is an increase of almost 12% as opposed to around 6200%.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...=6&pagenumber=9

Big surprise, just like Neoxx was doubling his money every three days

Thanks for the update.

he has a schedule of contracts traded and capital in account.

He started with one when he had (unknown to me some capital in his account.. You figured it out to be 85,000 dollars).

The 95,000 dollars ( I only saw a 94,000 dollar comment as his capital at the time I commented) gives him permission to trade 3 contracts instead of 2 or, as at the start, only 1 contract.

So, in my terms, he has made some money with some money at risk. I would measure it as the contract cost at risk and the return would be whatever you calculated he made in profits. At worst maybe 1,500 at risk and he made 10,000 as you say.

If he traded as spyder does, then he had 500 bucks per contract at risk per contract. The math is simple as a graphic on an equity curve.

If I did the equity curve it would be a percent point on one axis and days on the time axis.

For any day, the percent profit would be added to the cummulative; if a loss occured the percent profit would be subtracted from the cummulative. There is no consideration of the idle money at any time. Rough trader has idle money because he desires or it is, as usual, in treasuries making money. Some people just put 100% of capital in treasuries and use it as a pledge against margin.

As I see it, rough trader has ben risking 500 bucks a contract daily to make his returns daily. Now he has profited by 20 contracts margin and he is not using his perfomance (the additional ability to make more money using all profits).

You have your head up your ass about another misconception of yours. Taking x amount to y anount in Z days. Use rough trader's record over an over and apply all profits to adding contracts and do an equity curve of your sort whch starts at value x and ends at value y over z days. By doing that you get to see what a beginner lavel trader can do with compounding. rough trader does NOT compound as we all see. If he did he would get the result that comes from compounding by doing the little drill you could have done in the past to get the answer you fail to read.

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 09:12 PM:

Quote from Trader666:

Taking a closer look... this is yet another fairy tale because if you go to the last page of rough trader's journal you'll see that his "to date PNL" is less than $10K and his account balance is $95K. Which means he went from around $85K to $95K, NOT from "1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars." Which is an increase of almost 12% as opposed to around 6200%.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...=6&pagenumber=9

Big surprise, just like Neoxx was doubling his money every three days

Excellent homework Trader666, I see you really took the time to go through the posts and discern the truth of Jack Hershey's snake-oil bullshit drivel.

It's a service to ET that you have taken the time (and have the charm) to throw back the curtain and reveal the churlish troll that stands behind it, with megaphone to his mouth booming his exagerations and lies for all to hear.

I see that Jack Hershey is now saying that he was using the contract minimum margin of $500 per contract (like what spydie uses, LOL) when calculating Rough Trader's returns. The fact of the matter is, if Rough Trader had used anywhere near the contract minimum when trading his ATS would have blown-out, over and and over again.

Anyone with half-a-brain and the ability to read the thread can see that Rough Trader needed the extremely high (for most traders) performance bond that he listed as a cushion, [u]becase the system can and does go into drawdowns of $3,000-$4,000 per contract. (FTR, these drawdowns represent times of extreme choppiness in the market. And they are the result of the "allways in" philosophy that Jack Heshey expouses ... LMAO at that one).
***
It is making statements like the above extreme exaggertion and obfuscation that has caused people to look at Jack Hershey like he is an eogtistical troll and lying braggart of the worst kind. And people like Neoxx who follow him down the yellow-brick-road as if they were an absolute fool.

Thank you for your comments Jack, you have presented a text book case for the OP's thread title.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 09:30 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Many traders have watched Spyder trader. What are you saying that was mass hypnosis, with real money, in a real account, with a live feed, in real time?

Gee a shill with a nice new account thinks Spyder made some money..

I guess that's why Spyder had to be escorted to the cloak room and given a decent pair of dress shoes to enter a reception for traders

Or why Jack is forced to live off his partner and in her house

Yeah those two guys are killing it..

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 09:32 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Gee a shill with a nice new account thinks Spyder made some money..

... all it takes is an email account and a dream.

Quote from T2GR8T:

I guess that's why Spyder had to be escorted to the cloak room and given a decent pair of dress shoes to enter a reception for traders

Or why Jack is forced to live off his partner and in her house

Yeah those two guys are killing it..

LMAO to all of the above.

__________________
...

Posted by Eight on 04-25-09 09:39 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Many traders have watched Spyder trader. What are you saying that was mass hypnosis, with real money, in a real account, with a live feed, in real time?

His plan was to post live trades towards the end of last year, I never heard of that happening..

I'm not very interested in the pro-con Hershey debate, whenever I figured out what he was talking about from somebody discussing it in non gibberish I looked at it. I looked at channels [give me a break people], I looked at the rest of the stuff and found it to be a grab bag of hints and kinks all stuck together into a system... gadz, it makes my stomach churn to think about it all... and in-all-the-time.. why? Markets trend fifteen percent of the time, would it not be better to alternate markets and be riding a trend all the time? Is that difficult to figure out.. what? Not to mention trading across the channel when it's flat, hard to capture much of each move sometimes besides, that is another system running on a different time frame, really, inserted into the middle of some grandiose other system... jeez people, unbundle all that krap and automate them in Ninjatrader or something, we're in the Third Millenium already...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 09:39 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Kudos to interjecting some sanity here f9.

Another pathetic failed Hershey follower trying to justify his stupidity in not thinking for himself.. so sad you needed another alias to do this under

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 09:40 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Thanks for the update.

[insane ramblings of complete bullshit]

Thanks for proving Rabbitone's original hypothesis jack hershey.

The thread simply would not have been the same without you. People might have thought we were being unfairly critical of the benign trading knowledge and wisdom you impart to the massess ... ROTFLMAO!

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 09:43 PM:

Quote from Eight:

His (Spyder) plan was to post live trades towards the end of last year, I never heard of that happening..

Exactly.. and no prizes for guessing why he couldn't do it

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 09:46 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Many traders have watched Spyder trader. What are you saying that was mass hypnosis, with real money, in a real account, with a live feed, in real time?

Quote from Eight:

His plan was to post live trades towards the end of last year, I never heard of that happening..

Just ... LOL at that one, LOFL.

__________________
...

Posted by Neoxx on 04-25-09 09:49 PM:

Quote from Jack Hershey:

At Rutgers recently they measured how this terrible mental distortion that affects failed traders comes to be. (See page 78 of the 11APR09 economist as I have mentioned.)

Stress distorts intuition and analysis. Stress comes from choice to do and doing mistaken things.

Stress Testing

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 09:52 PM:

Quote from Neoxx:

Stress Testing

Oh please Neoxx, watching you fail time and time again in Jacks SCT boot camp was comical and embarrassing enough.. your mentor is a 3 time loser that has never traded

Post a link to his trading record and I'll retract everything I've said.. go on I dare you to find it

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 09:59 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I don't think he made some money, my brother was there and watched him. I don't trade like Spyder does and don't care whether he makes a dollar or a million. I just know he traded live and made money.

Where's the proof?

I can only assume without proof you are a complete liar and most probably Spyder himself under a different alias very sadly trying to convince us he's not the complete loser we all know he is

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 09:59 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Oh please Neoxx, watching you fail time and time again in Jacks SCT boot camp was comical and embarrassing enough.. your mentor is a 3 time loser that has never traded

Yeah, that was pretty pathetic, wasn't it?

Especially when he would constantly give back the days winnings by trading "always in" SCT (I guess he was trying to get 3x the ATR, LOL) and then jack hershey would criticize and blame him.

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:02 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Spyder was wearing flops big deal. ...

LOL, you're here defending him and you don't even know what the hell went down?#!

Spyder most definitely was not wearing flops. You can't wear flops in the middle of winter, if you do, you will freeze your extremeties off.

***
Thanks for the other color commentary, even though it was off-topic and had nothing to do with the thread either, LOL.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 10:03 PM:

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

Yeah, that was pretty pathetic, wasn't it?

Especially when he would constantly give back the days winnings by trading "always in" SCT (I guess he was trying to get 3x the ATR, LOL) and then jack hershey would criticize and blame him.

Don't worry I'm sure he was just paper trading like all the other Hershey followers

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 10:04 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Some of you people on here are truly class "A" pieces of shit.

Aaaaahahahahaaaa...

Didn't take much to make you crack.. wow you must be the picture of discipline when trading

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:05 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Some of you people on here are truly class "A" pieces of shit.

Poor baby, got your tighty whities all in a bunch do ya!

Yeah, that was a night to remember, in more ways than one.

Now put jack hershey back on the line, so he can regale us with his stories of:

1) getting 3x the ATR,
3) using $500 minimm performance bond
3) tripling his trading account every three days

and other myths and legends of SCT Trading.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 10:08 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Jack smack . . . never met him and don't care. Care even less about someone like you.

And yet you keep posting.. are you so brainless you can't see you've already given yourself away?

New alias.. 80% of posts in this thread.. defending Jack and Spyder who you supposedly don't care about

The large impacting comet should have filtered this kind of stupidity out aeons ago

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:09 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

And yet you keep posting.. are you so brainless you can't see you've already given yourself away

Ya!

It's pretty obvious, isn't it?

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:14 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Right, who the heck cares.
I'm damn sure not to to tie my whole life to waiting on someone to show me something I can learn on my own. If it takes me more time, so be it.
WE trade the way we trade, period.
Whining jerks just want something to complain about. Munches would never say a word to your face.

jack hershey obviously cares a lot, he trolls the board promoting trading concepts which are absolutely ludicrious and lead Neoxx (one of his star students) to publicly failing and blowing out his account ... not once, but twice!

You obviously care a lot RobertMcCall, as you're here crying and boohooing on this thread, making post-after-post as quickly as you can!

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:17 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

You want proof?
Stick your finger in your arse and then stick it in your mouth and tell us all whether you have any brain cells left?
Its obvious the looser in this thread. Its the idiot wasting time trying to get someone to prove something they care a knat's arse about. If you care so much, prove it doesn't work and post your findings. We will all be holding are collective breath waiting on your return.
You're a complete friggin idiot.

Uh oh, now he's going on TILT!

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:19 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I don't trade Munchy, I invest.

Yep, another guy who knows nothing about trading coming on here and defending jack hershey ... does anyone else see a pattern here?

Thanks for that RobertMcCall, really, thank you.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 10:20 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I don't trade

Yeah we guessed

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 10:21 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Stick your finger in your arse and then stick it in your mouth and tell us all whether you have any brain cells left?

Lets leave your sex life out of this

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:21 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I know . . . you were though Munchy.

Ah ... and now we have the descent into childish insults.

No wonder you don't trade, you would get a brain freeze the minute a trade started going against your position (now please come back and tell us how you've mastered SCT).

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 10:22 PM:

Don't you hate it when they send an amatuer Mandles?

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:23 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Lets leave your sex life out of this

LOL, he does seem to know a lot about that particular practice, doesn't he?

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:26 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Don't you hate it when they send an amatuer Mandles?

I don't think he's part of the regular crew.

At least they claim to be trading, this guy was actually stupid enough to admit in public that he doesn't trade.

Pretty pathetic stuff on the face of it.

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:31 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

And yet you keep posting.. are you so brainless you can't see you've already given yourself away?

New alias.. 80% of posts in this thread.. defending Jack and Spyder who you supposedly don't care about

The large impacting comet should have filtered this kind of stupidity out aeons ago

LOL, so tell us how you really feel!

LMAO

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 10:39 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I'm bored on a rainy day.

You signed up under a new alias and have done nothing but try to defend the two biggest losers on the net..

You aren't bored.. you are stupid

And it's not raining.. those are your tears of failure

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:43 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

And you're not? Pot calling the kettle black again I see. You're really good at that. Lots of practice?

I never said I didn't care. To the contrary, it is obvious that I (like Eight mentioned) find jack hershey's lies and bullshit to be nauseating .

And stop putting words in my mouth, assclown.

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I speak from a point of knowledge where you and the other Munchy are speaking from a point of assumption. I say that because you guys never speak about their stuff from a fist hand point of view. I don't talk about things I have no information about, you and the other functional illiterate don't seem to have that quality though.

OK, now I'm begining to think that you're just a complete moron. You just told us that you don'tk now how to trade (if you did, belive me, you would). You are, by your own statement, an investor. So that begs the question of exactly why the hell you are even on this thread arguing with people who know how to trade, in support of those who don't?

LOL, you are stupid as hell.

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I've never met Jack or Spyder, never witnessed them breath or trade but my brother saw Spyder trade and make money, period. I don't condone how they trade, I invest. They do it a whole lot different than I'm comfortable with. To each there own. You Munchies don't see it that way though. For some reason you want to mentally masturbate on what you can't articulate.

Here we go with the sex practices again.

Believe me, you lost everyone on the thread with the comment saying that you don't know how to trade. To add fuel to the fire you're sitting her claiming that it was your brother who saw spyder trade, so everything you say is from second-hand, non-provable, non-reliable sources and you don't even have the ability to know that you are being duped, dupe.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 10:43 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I'd defend you if someone lied about something I knew was not true but at this point, other than being intelligent, there isn't much.

New alias, shill, lied about your brother.. very sad little person.. bye bye

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-25-09 10:45 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

New alias, shill, lied about your brother.. very sad little person.. bye bye

Yeah, I know, I got bored with the moron too.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 10:59 PM:

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

Yeah, I know, I got bored with the moron too.

Hopefully they send someone a little less obvious and a little smarter next time.. Robbie should carry a box of tissues around with him

Posted by jack hershey on 04-25-09 11:08 PM:

Quote from Neoxx:

Stress Testing

Thanks for posting the article.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 11:16 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Thanks for posting the article.

And that's all he's good for after you mentored him Jack

Just like your good self he has never posted his trading record because he has none

Posted by Trader666 on 04-25-09 11:17 PM:

Let's see who really has their head up their ass, Jack:

Jack Hershey: "rough trader takes 1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars"
Reality: More like from $85K to $95K (if that even happened)

Jack Hershey: "don't even think about what you just read about someone else's [Neoxx's] effort who is only doubling his money every three days by compounding capital."
Reality: Failure

Jack Hershey: Promised his former IBD group he'd turn $10K into $1million in 100 days and post updates on ET
Reality: Never happened

Jack Hershey: "I do reach my goal of 3x H-L in ES as a practice."
Reality: -24% in a trading contest

etc., etc., etc...

Quote from jack hershey:

You have your head up your ass about another misconception of yours...

Posted by Trader666 on 04-25-09 11:22 PM:

Thanks JJ but I can't take all the credit... a friend alerted me with a PM and I simply followed up.

What's with this RobertMcCall idiot? He seems to have come out of the woodwork as a distraction just after Jack got his pants pulled down yet again

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

Excellent homework Trader666, I see you really took the time to go through the posts and discern the truth of Jack Hershey's snake-oil bullshit drivel.

It's a service to ET that you have taken the time (and have the charm) to throw back the curtain and reveal the churlish troll that stands behind it, with megaphone to his mouth booming his exagerations and lies for all to hear.

Posted by powerfade on 04-25-09 11:41 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:
Many people are only now starting to grasp what the internet has done for some people that lack the social skills in normal society.

Truer words have never been spoken.

In the end, the credulous noobs who waste their time trying to cut corners by accepting the latest guru's proclamations provide proof to those who see life in evolutionary terms.

However, I see the maniac stalkers who waste the best years (literally, it seems) of their lives pursuing people they don't know on the internet as being more worthy of censure and pity than the noob who wastes his time on something like SCT. At least the noob learns what not to do.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-25-09 11:46 PM:

Quote from powerfade:

However, I see the maniac stalkers who waste the best years (literally, it seems) of their lives pursuing people they don't know on the internet as being more worthy of censure and pity than the noob who wastes his time on something like SCT. At least the noob learns what not to do.

Maniac stalkers

When Hershey spouts his bullshit a few people call him to account.. lets not get too dramatic

Posted by powerfade on 04-25-09 11:55 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Maniac stalkers

When Hershey spouts his bullshit a few people call him to account.. lets not get too dramatic

Are you joking? There's one guy here who has made over 2000 posts deriding JH. He has created something like 120 usernames, according to the mod I spoke to about it. At one time last year he was posting the same thing over and over (a post which included links to the various proofs he offered that SCT and Jack's followers were worthless). How many hours are involved? Thousands, right?

This guy is sicker than Jack or his adherents. I have no idea if he's still around. Apparently he's from Australia.

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 12:02 AM:

Quote from Trader666:

Jack Hershey: "rough trader takes 1500 dollars to 94,000 dollars"
Reality: More like from $85K to $95K (if that even happened)

Jack Hershey: "don't even think about what you just read about someone else's [Neoxx's] effort who is only doubling his money every three days by compounding capital."
Reality: Failure

Jack Hershey: Promised his former IBD group he'd turn $10K into $1million in 100 days and post updates on ET
Reality: Never happened

Jack Hershey: "I do reach my goal of 3x H-L in ES as a practice."
Reality: -24% in a trading contest

LOL, that list reads like a "who's who" of lies, half-truths and obusfucations!

Contrary to what some people might say, the followers of jack hershey aren't learning anything (Neoxx being the prime example), while we get proven right with every post that JH makes!

Ah, my backtesting is done now, gotta love ET for taking care of the downtime.

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 12:06 AM:

Quote from powerfade:

Are you joking? There's one guy here who has made over 2000 posts deriding JH. He has created something like 120 usernames, according to the mod I spoke to about it. At one time last year he was posting the same thing over and over (a post which included links to the various proofs he offered that SCT and Jack's followers were worthless). How many hours are involved? Thousands, right?

This guy is sicker than Jack or his adherents. I have no idea if he's still around. Apparently he's from Australia.

... and what's stupidest of all are the clowns who come out and make posts on the subject (like yourself powerfade, and that other moron ... RobertMcCall) while never knowing what they are talking about! (RM doesn't even trade ... do you? LOL)

They claim to neither support jack hershey nor the "B Team", but they keep steping into the fray with their two cents ... if they only had a life.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 12:20 AM:

Quote from powerfade:

Are you joking? There's one guy here who has made over 2000 posts deriding JH. He has created something like 120 usernames, according to the mod I spoke to about it. At one time last year he was posting the same thing over and over (a post which included links to the various proofs he offered that SCT and Jack's followers were worthless). How many hours are involved? Thousands, right?

Ahahahaaaa.. actually it only takes a few minutes a day.. and with the old cut and paste barely that sometimes.. potting JH is after market entertainment.. but you seem awfully passionate about all this.. are you going to have a tantrum or episode over this monumentally important subject?

Could it have anything to do with the fact that you are one of the drooling morons that can't think for yourself, cant trade for yourself and can't develop your own system and was hoping SCT would reap you 3 x the daily range without ever having a loss

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...555#post1979555

BUSTED!

Posted by powerfade on 04-26-09 12:29 AM:

Quote from T2GR8T:
Could it have anything to do with the fact that a while back you were one of the drooling morons that can't think for himself and was a believer in SCT reaping you 3 x the daily range without ever having a loss

Ummm... so you feel I'm 'busted' because you post a link in which I ridiculed Jack and SCT?

Quote from T2GR8T:
the charts I've seen on the SCT/JH threads make me shake my head in wonderment that anyone could make heads or tails of them.

Okay, David. Whatever you say, big guy.

A quick search of my posts shows that I have as much disdain for SCT's absurd claims as anyone. I did not waste two years of my life following Jack around after paying $3000 and flying to Arizona to wash Jack's feet like that T28 guy did.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 12:31 AM:

Quote from powerfade:

Ummm... so you feel I'm 'busted' because you post a link in which I ridiculed Jack and SCT?

Oh very selective quoting Princess.. I believe you said you were interested in the results (obviously your own method was failing miserably)

No reason to be in there expressing interest unless you were another one of the brain dead losers believing Jack could hand you the grail

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...555#post1979555

"This would actually be of interest, Please do let us know what you come up with"

BUSTED!

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 12:32 AM:

Quote from powerfade:

I did not waste two years of my life following Jack around after paying $3000 and flying to Arizona to wash Jack's feet like that T28 guy did.

Another boring moron who posts lies on the internet and tries to pass them off as being factual ... damn where is romanus, nkhoi and Tums when you need them?

Oh right, I know where Tums is.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 12:35 AM:

Does anyone go to Arizona when they already live in a tropical paradise?

Posted by powerfade on 04-26-09 12:37 AM:

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

... and what's stupidest of all are the clowns who come out and make posts on the subject (like yourself powerfade, and that other moron ... RobertMcCall) while never knowing what they are talking about! (RM doesn't even trade ... do you? LOL)

They claim to neither support jack hershey nor the "B Team", but they keep steping into the fray with their two cents ... if they only had a life.

Hey MS

I have no argument with you at all, and I'm not quite sure why you're flaming me so badly. I have equal disdain for any guru who claims to be able to teach noobs to make huge amounts of money trading. I don't reserve my disdain for Jack. Also, I'm not sure if my 350 posts in 2 years under 1 username can compare with what T28 has done here, which is to post 2000+ times (as I'm told) and register 120 usernames (a guess by a mod) in order to stalk JH around and discredit him.

I believe it's well known that T28 went to AZ and was disappointed by what happened there, and thus started the campaign to enlighten others. I guess that part is okay, it just seems to have developed into something of an obsession.

Also, I don't know if it's quite accurate to say that I 'keep stepping into the fray'. I haven't really been involved in the ongoing debates that much, but there are others here that have hundreds and even thousands of posts from one side or the other.

In any case, I wish you good trading, whatever method you're using.

btw... the only RM I know is Rearden Metal. You're not talking about him, are you? I'm pretty sure he has placed a trade or two in his life. I have as well.

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 12:50 AM:

Quote from powerfade:

Hey MS

I have no argument with you at all, and I'm not quite sure why you're flaming me so badly. I have equal disdain for any guru who claims to be able to teach noobs to make huge amounts of money trading. I don't reserve my disdain for Jack. Also, I'm not sure if my 350 posts in 2 years under 1 username can compare with what T28 has done here, which is to post 2000+ times (as I'm told) and register 120 usernames (a guess by a mod) in order to stalk JH around and discredit him.

You obviously don't know your history.

jack hershey flamed and disrupted the shit out of Trader 28's orginal thread, and he's done the same on many others, including one that I started.

That's what gets the shit started.

Quote from powerfade:

I believe it's well known that T28 went to AZ and was disappointed by what happened there, and thus started the campaign to enlighten others. I guess that part is okay, it just seems to have developed into something of an obsession.

I believe you're lying.

Quote from powerfade:

Also, I don't know if it's quite accurate to say that I 'keep stepping into the fray'. I haven't really been involved in the ongoing debates that much, but there are others here that have hundreds and even thousands of posts from one side or the other.

You're coming here and making commentary when (obviously) you have absolutely no background knowledge about the participants or the issues that are involved. jack hershey prances arond ET acting like a trading guru and sticking his nose in everyone else's business (and I do mean everyone), so now it's his turn to be on the receiving end. Oh, and btw, he was banned from the site five years ago for being so disruptive, lying all the time and basically talking a bunch of drivel and nonsense. nkhoi (who is still trying to learn to trade, SCT or anything else) brought him back five years ago, obviously he hadn't had enogh.

Quote from powerfade:

In any case, I wish you good trading, whatever method you're using.

It's working very well for me, thank you.

It has something to do with a few ideas I was talking over with that Trader 28 guy, LOL.

Quote from powerfade:

btw... the only RM I know is Rearden Metal. You're not talking about him, are you? I'm pretty sure he has placed a trade or two in his life. I have as well.

It's pretty obvious from the post that you are quoting that "RM" refers to Robert McCall (do you also suffer from reading comprehension as well as stepping into discussions who's history you know nothing about?).

Glad to hear you can trade, at least you're doing better than ... RM.

__________________
...

Posted by powerfade on 04-26-09 01:07 AM:

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

You obviously don't know your history.
jack hershey flamed and disrupted the shit out of Trader 28's orginal thread, and he's done the same on many others, including one that I started.

Not sure how that negates the fact that to spend 2 years and thousands of hours of your life anonymously discrediting someone who has no credibility is a tragic waste of time and indicative of some sort of psychopathology, but anyhow...

Quote from MandelbrotSet:
You're coming here and making commentary when (obviously) you have absolutely no background knowledge about the participants or the issues that are involved. jack hershey prances arond ET acting like a trading guru and sticking his nose in everyone else's business (and I do mean everyone), so now it's his turn to be on the receiving end.

Are you under the impression that I am somehow a follower or supporter of SCT or Jack? I have no doubt that all of what you say is true - in fact it fits with the modus operandi of a guru. If you search my posts you will see that I am clearly an SCT skeptic (as shown by the post above. I guess for the fanatics, saying 'yes, by all means, SCT adherent, show us some proof' constitutes slavish devotion to SCT).

Quote from MandelbrotSet:
do you also suffer from reading comprehension as well as stepping into discussions who's history you know nothing about?

Again, not too sure why you're flaming me so hard, I have no dog in this fight (but you seem to). My reading comprehension is probably average to good. By the way, in the above quote, I believe you meant 'whose'. Who's is the contraction of 'who is'. That's free, by the way. No charge for you.

In any case, I'll bow out now, and leave this epic battle to you and your fellow truth-seekers.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:15 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Rabbi was right about how you blatantly lie in your posts.

I never said I didn't know how to trade Munchy, I said I was an investor. My portfolio makes your one lot account look like parking money on a Sunday in Omaha.

Nah you are just another loser trying to defend Herhsey because you couldn't think for yourself and it's psychologically easier to believe we are all wrong rather than face the fact you were duped because you are mentally pissweak

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:16 AM:

Quote from powerfade:

In any case, I'll bow out now, and leave this epic battle to you and your fellow truth-seekers.

OK, see ya.

I'm not really too sure why you came on the thread and made your (mistaken, wrong-headed and lacking anything remotely resembling factual) commentary in the first place.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:17 AM:

Aww and I had hoped Poutingfade would have the balls to address his mistaken beliefs.. oh well another ET coward bites the dust

Posted by powerfade on 04-26-09 01:18 AM:

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

I'm not really too sure why you came on the thread and made your (mistaken, wrong-headed and lacking anything remotely resembling factual) commentary in the first place.

Who knows, maybe it was to teach you the difference between who's and whose. You can take that info going forward and make your posts more accurate, and avoid questioning the literacy of those who are your intellectual superior. That's not a bad outcome for you, right?

Out.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:19 AM:

Good luck in your continued search for a profitable method Poutingfade

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:20 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Rabbi was right about how you blatantly lie in your posts.

I never said I didn't know how to trade Munchy, I said I was an investor. My portfolio makes your one lot account look like parking money on a Sunday in Omaha.

You talk awful big for being a little sawed off runt. Did you ever get your teeth fixed or haven't you been able to afford that dentist yet? Scary how I know so much about you isn't it? Have you told everybody here in blog world about your fetishes and where you like to spend your weekends there in the city? Let me know if you wish me to continue along the lines of "men in tights".

LMAO, RM is qute the little non-trading braggart, isn't he? He comes on here, proclaims loud and clear that he doesn't know how to trade and then tries to make-up for it by saying that he is a "great investor". How's that one working for you the major market downturn, toolshed?

Yeah, I know ... you and Warren Buffett have the market cornered.

What a tool ...

P.S. I'm glad to hear your paper-trading account is doing so well these days.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:21 AM:

Quote from powerfade:

I believe it's well known that T28 went to AZ and was disappointed by what happened there

Dude I am T28 (as if my nick wasn't enough to give it away, was the play on great & 28 too subtle?

) and while I've lived and worked in Japan and been to Fiji, Bali and Tahiti I've never set foot in the states let alone paid money to a loser like Jack..

I'm the originator of SPM which in one day did what SCT couldn't in 10 years.. I had newbs posting blotters on the first day.. I would hardly need a pile of shit like SCT.. need to get your story straight

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:23 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

He doesn't discriminate powerfade, he flames everyone. Search his posts.
He comes down hard on people for interrupting threads with flames but he is guilty of the same offense. Classic, pot calling the kettle black.
He has a grudge against the world for some reason. Someone pooped in his oatmeal so now he is going to take it out on the world, on the internet. He doesn't do it in real life though because someone would cash him in.
He's just a pint sized guy with little education and a big mouth.

Yawn.

And you're a liar spending you're whole weekend on the internet claiming what a great trader spyder trader is (because your brother told you so), while also stating that you don't trade (you are an investor, LOL) and you secretely worship at the feet of jack hershey.

__________________
...

Posted by Trader666 on 04-26-09 01:23 AM:

Actually, it's well known that that's an "A-Team" fairy tale that was invented in a lame attempt to diminish T28's credibility because he so frequently points out the failings of Jack and SCT.

Quote from powerfade:

I believe it's well known that T28 went to AZ and was disappointed by what happened there, and thus started the campaign to enlighten others.

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:26 AM:

Quote from powerfade:

Who knows, maybe it was to teach you the difference between who's and whose. You can take that info going forward and make your posts more accurate, and avoid questioning the literacy of those who are your intellectual superior. That's not a bad outcome for you, right?

Out.

Yeah, you said that before, but like the tool you are you keep coming back for more.

Good luck with trading SCT and being mentored by jack hershey, powerfade. (LOL)

You're gonna find your account being bleed dry with all the over-trading the system does. If you don't believe me, just as Robert McCall, he tried trading the system but was a failure (usual SCT victim) and now he spends his time defending jack hershey.

__________________
...

Posted by Trader666 on 04-26-09 01:28 AM:

Hey idiot... tell us why you suddenly appeared to distract everyone the instant after I pulled Jack's pants down by catching him in yet another misrepresentation of SCT.

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Rabbi was right about how you blatantly lie in your posts.

I never said I didn't know how to trade Munchy, I said I was an investor. My portfolio makes your one lot account look like parking money on a Sunday in Omaha.

You talk awful big for being a little sawed off runt. Did you ever get your teeth fixed or haven't you been able to afford that dentist yet? Scary how I know so much about you isn't it? Have you told everybody here in blog world about your fetishes and where you like to spend your weekends there in the city? Let me know if you wish me to continue along the lines of "men in tights".

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:28 AM:

Quote from Trader666:

Actually, it's well known that that's an "A-Team" fairy tale that was invented in a lame attempt to diminish T28's credibility because he so frequently points out the failings of Jack and SCT.

Yeah, we know that.

It just goes to show how mis-informed and ignorant powerfade was to even come on the thread and start talking trash.
***
You and I both know that he is going to have his SCT charts on the screen bright and early come Monday.

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:31 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Doing quite well Munchy, thanks for asking. Up 87% so for this year on more than your milk money account will ever see in it.

This sounds surprising like those jack hershey claims of 3x the ATR ... LOL

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:34 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Your repeating yourself there T28. Is that the number of brains cells you have left or is that how many you started with?

Actually it's the same post moved up in the order Einstein

And I think you mean't you're not your.. Braniac

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:35 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I'm bored on a rainy day.

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I'm going to go sit on the beach and enjoy the breeze and my lady.

ROTFLMAO!

Which one is it, Robert McCall?

You're bored and it's raining, or you're going to go enjoy the beach with your "girlfriend".

***
Looks like you really stepped in shit there, chum. I love it when these internet trolls get caught in a lie. The only "girfriend" this tool has is the one on the porn site he's looking at!

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:37 AM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Actually it's the same post moved up in the order Einstein

And I think you mean't you're not your.. Braniac

The guy is so stupid he doesn't have the sense to keep track of which lie he is telling on the thread!

Robert McCall's new name is Dolt's R Us

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:39 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Are you on DRUGS . . . stupid question.
Most of that percentage dipshit was in RIMM and Apple. Do you have a clue what those are . . . one lot trader? Every time you post your IQ level drops 5 points.
Show of hands, how many people think Munchy here has "A" clue?

Yeah, right.

Say hello the the "girlfriend" for me.

Oh wait, no it's raining.

No, on second thought, iit's nice and sunny and I'm going to go to the beach. ("snicker")

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:41 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I don't know T28 from Adam

I'm the good looking one

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:43 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

I am a brainiac compared to you . . . wow, what the hell is that you just wrote?

Err.. you are the illiterate troglodyte that doesn't know the difference between you're and your

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:47 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

You want proof?
I stick my finger in your arse and then stick it in my mouth and tell us all whether you have any brain cells left?

You are one gross, disgusting pervert. What do you do when you aren't trolling ET and making up shill aliases, troll the internet for 14 year old little boys?

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Its obvious the looser in this thread.

Yes, it's glaringly obvious.

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Its the idiot wasting time trying to get someone to prove something they care a knat's arse about. If you care so much, prove it doesn't work and post your findings. We will all be holding are collective breath waiting on your return.

All you need to do is go read Neoxx's thread in chit-chat, and that's all the proof I'll ever need.

Quote from RobertMcCall:

You're a complete friggin idiot.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:48 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Was raining hours ago Munchy, this is the beach.

Ha ha.. Bobbys boggy soggy dumphole just magically turned into the beach

Get your story straight sparky

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:49 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Something had to make up for the lake of brain cells I guess.

Oh, I see.

I think you're "lacking brain cells", not that you hve a "lake of brain cells", but seeing as how you're going to the "magical beach" with your "lady", you could be right.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:50 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Bye till later scumdogs.

Don't let the door slap your brain cell on the way out

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:51 AM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Ha ha.. Bobbys boggy soggy dumphole just magically turned into the beach

Yep, with his "lady" (the one on the internet site that he's watching).

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:51 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Something had to make up for the lake of brain cells I guess.

I think you mean lack not lake.. genius

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:53 AM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

I think you mean lack not lake.. genius

LOL, the guy is sooo stupid he's doing our work for us!

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:56 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

Was raining hours ago Munchy, this is the beach.
Wife, not girlfriend Munchy. Like your boyfriend but the other gender.

RobertMcCall's "wifey"

... LOL

Any port in a storm, right Robert?

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 01:58 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

No lake of brain cells . . . like overflowing.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaaaa

He's trying to make out he meant to say lake of brain cells.. like it's a good thing

BWAHAHAHAAAAA

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 01:59 AM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Ha ha.. Bobbys boggy soggy dumphole just magically turned into the beach

Get your story straight sparky

Oh shit!

ROTFLMAO! ... whew!, talk about guilty pleasures, pointing out the lies this assclown is making on the internet while he wacks off to porn is just way too funny!

__________________
...

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 02:00 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

No lake of brain cells . . . like overflowing.

I didn't think they made people this stupid.

__________________
...

Posted by nkhoi on 04-26-09 03:46 AM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

..
How much is Baron paying you to start arguments anyway?

20 pages in one Sat night, who else but Jack can generate so much debate.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 04:48 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

20 pages in one Sat night, who else but Jack can generate so much debate.

One of Jacks pathetic drivel ridden posts lasts 20 pages

So nkhoi it's been 6 years since you personally brought him back to ET after he was banned from here and you have been studying his method.. so the question is:

Are you profitable yet using SCT?

Posted by nkhoi on 04-26-09 05:39 AM:

note: I have *all* detractors on ignore list.

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-26-09 05:50 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

note: I have *all* detractors on ignore list.

Which is why you always respond whenever make a post inquiring about your profitability using SCT, right?

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 05:58 AM:

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

Which is why you always respond whenever make a post inquiring about your profitability using SCT, right?

Bingo.. he's trying to cover his tracks so he doesn't have to respond to the question of why he isn't profitable after 6 years of studying SCT directly under Jack and Spyder

Strange that my PM isn't rejected when I send it to him

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 06:14 AM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

So nkhoi it's been 6 years since you personally brought him back to ET after he was banned from here and you have been studying his method.. so the question is:

Are you profitable yet using SCT?

Quote from nkhoi:

note: I have *all* detractors on ignore list.

I guess that answers the question.. the only mystery is why you keep defending Jack when you are still not profitable after 6 years?

Posted by TCRhodes on 04-26-09 02:45 PM:

Rare Jaque Hershey Sighting

Celebrity Chef Jaque "Pierre" Hershey makes a Saturday evening event appearance.

Posted by doli on 04-26-09 02:51 PM:

The whole SCT schtick is about trading with other people's money. Think about it. If you could convince people that you're a great trader, they would offer you their money to trade. They wouldn't care if they didn't get all of the profit ... any part of a "sure thing" is all good. What they don't think about is that the risk is theirs ... the "great trader" doesn't take any losses. The "great trader" gets risk-free trading capital.

It's even better if you can convince people that you're an altruistic do-gooder. It gives you even more credibility in the eyes of some people.

There is a sucker born every minute.

Posted by nkhoi on 04-26-09 05:52 PM:

the cool thing about the ignore feature is the ignoramus simply doesn't exist in your universe. No posting, no PM, no nothing. But you have to log in to activate this feature.

Posted by Eight on 04-26-09 06:40 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

the cool thing about the ignore feature is the ignoramus simply doesn't exist in your universe. No posting, no PM, no nothing. But you have to log in to activate this feature.

Until somebody quotes them, and they always do seemingly...

Posted by jack hershey on 04-26-09 06:51 PM:

Quote from Eight:

Until somebody quotes them, and they always do seemingly...

Start using the ignore quote feature.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 07:04 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

the cool thing about the ignore feature is the ignoramus simply doesn't exist in your universe. No posting, no PM, no nothing. But you have to log in to activate this feature.

Aaaaahahahahaaa

This moron doesn't seem to realise that by trying to convince us he didn't see the question about his profitability he is giving himself away.. what a fucking pear shaped loser

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 07:06 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Start using the ignore quote feature.

So Jack the mod who brought you back to ET after you were banned and has been studying SCT for 6 years is so unprofitable he is forced to lie like a coward..

You must be so proud

Posted by nkhoi on 04-26-09 09:01 PM:

You are not on my ignore list, the one who made my list is a 2-faced, backstabber, ankle-biter. Sorry for the confusion.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 09:04 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

You are not on my ignore list, the one who made my list is a 2-faced, backstabber, ankle-biter. Sorry for the confusion.

Well you can answer the question then.. are you profitable trading SCT after 6 years of studying under Jack and Spyder?

Posted by nkhoi on 04-26-09 09:12 PM:

The question was already answered, search my posts. btw, there is realy no need for the ignore feature my powerful mind can activate the same thing easily, effortlessly.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 09:22 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

The question was already answered, search my posts.

What are you so afraid of?

Why do I need to search your posts? I asked you directly in this thread which you chose to come into and you have not answered it in this thread.. so:

Are you profitable using SCT after studying for 6 years under Jack and Spyder?

Posted by NihabaAshi on 04-26-09 10:20 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

What are you so afraid of?

Why do I need to search your posts? I asked you directly in this thread which you chose to come into and you have not answered it in this thread.. so:

Are you profitable using SCT after studying for 6 years under Jack and Spyder?

He's simply saying that he's willing to answer others directly whereas you he has a bias against and prefer for you to do some extra work via researching his past replies to find the answers you seek when others asked similar like question.

Simply, your not high up on his list of "likables" to get a direct answer.

Try sending him some flowers to soften him up a little.

Mark

__________________
"Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant."--Robert Louis Stevenson

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 10:26 PM:

Quote from NihabaAshi:

He's simply saying that he's willing to answer others directly whereas you he has a bias against and prefer for you to do some extra work via researching his past replies to find the answers you seek when others asked similar like question.

No we all know what he's saying.. he hasn't made a cent trading SCT and neither has anyone else.. I just enjoy watching him squirm after he came in here so confidently to big note Jack

Posted by jack hershey on 04-26-09 10:30 PM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

What are you so afraid of?

Why do I need to search your posts? I asked you directly in this thread which you chose to come into and you have not answered it in this thread.. so:

Are you profitable using SCT after studying for 6 years under Jack and Spyder?

Make a small assumption from now on: those who don't keep current or don't do what they are told, get to be left out in the cold.

I am really thankful to this person. He really has been helpful continually after introducing me to this forum (ET) and all the wonderful people here.

Some of them are guys who fly to anywhere to engage with each other. Watching spyder make money trading is just a neat aspect of the spinoffs of ET. That and none of us have to buy drinks at Expos. How did they figure out to come together and have fun?

Would you like to go sailing in a 33 foot Hunter at the San Diego Expo? I didn't think so; it would be to expensive to get to the ganplank (One isn't needed...lol)

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-26-09 10:37 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Make a small assumption from now on: those who don't keep current or don't do what they are told, get to be left out in the cold.

I am really thankful to this person. He really has been helpful continually after introducing me to this forum (ET) and all the wonderful people here.

Some of them are guys who fly to anywhere to engage with each other. Watching spyder make money trading is just a neat aspect of the spinoffs of ET. That and none of us have to buy drinks at Expos. How did they figure out to come together and have fun?

Would you like to go sailing in a 33 foot Hunter at the San Diego Expo? I didn't think so; it would be to expensive to get to the ganplank (One isn't needed...lol)

Oh dear Jack..

nkhoi is as poor as a church mouse as you well know

Spyder is so poor he was turned away from a traders function because he didn't have any decent shoes on

And you are forced to live off your partner and out of her house.. the only sailing you ever do is on the net when you fantasize about being an arctic explorer and post other peoples photos of ice

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-27-09 01:26 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

the cool thing about the ignore feature is the ignoramus simply doesn't exist in your universe. No posting, no PM, no nothing. But you have to log in to activate this feature.

This is a perfect example of someone who suffering from being mind controled and doesn't have the strength of will or intelligence required to make his own decisions (in trading or in life) but would rather stick his head in the proverbial sand and continue going down his choosen path.

He might start qustioning the method after 10 years of being a pear shaped loser, but I doubt it.

__________________
...

Posted by Eight on 04-27-09 04:36 AM:

Quote from NihabaAshi:

He's simply saying that he's willing to answer others directly whereas you he has a bias against and prefer for you to do some extra work via researching his past replies to find the answers you seek when others asked similar like question.

Simply, your not high up on his list of "likables" to get a direct answer.

Try sending him some flowers to soften him up a little.

Mark

He's not allowed to talk to outsiders.

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-27-09 04:37 AM:

Quote from Eight:

He's not allowed to talk to outsiders.

LOL those words are truer than you think.

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-27-09 04:45 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

The question was already answered, search my posts. btw, there is realy no need for the ignore feature my powerful mind can activate the same thing easily, effortlessly.

You just posted far more words than it would have taken to answer the question..

I guess we'll just have to assume that after 6 years of studying SCT under Jack and Spyder you are too afraid to give an answer because you are still unprofitable.. you have my condolences

Posted by TraderD on 04-27-09 05:46 AM:

Wow. We have a clear attention winner. Jack! He wins by you linking him or disliking him. Why don't we forget about him?

How many times do we have to say that "king" in naked?

1) Jack is using a lot of smart words together. Even if he is a genius, he certainty lacks ability to effectively communicate his findings. tragic....ban/ignore

2) if he is an NLP menace... diagnose...ban/ignore

3) if he is old man...sad story....still, ban/ignore....

he wastes a lot of bandwidth..

.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-27-09 05:58 AM:

Quote from TraderD:

he wastes a lot of bandwidth..

Ahh Jack is good fun.. who else could tell you he is a professional explorer for the UN and keep a straight face?

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-27-09 02:40 PM:

Quote from RobertMcCall:

That was fun . . . . interesting thread Rabbitone, thanks for inviting me to mindfuck these twits.
You are correct, Rabbi.
There are truly a bunch of gullible idiots on these threads and you have just witnessed and exercise with two of them.

This is power of the internet. Researchers are speculating why internet participants go to much greater lengths than they would otherwise go to in face to face meetings (I’m not say anyone did).

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-27-09 03:13 PM:

Here is another example of the power of internet Mind Control

CULTS ON THE INTERNET

According to Yahoo, there are now 34 cyber-religions on the Internet. This is up from 12 last time I looked, about a year ago.

•Biohazard - Cultural electric cattle-prod; Home for Wayward Rants;
signpost to every point in the universe; intelligent agent for the
deranged.
•Boojumism
•Center for Duck Studies - premier resource for finding one's inner Duck.
•Church of All (3)
•Church Of Gerbil - Gerbilism- come see what all the fanatics are raving
about!
•Church of Juan Valdez, The
•Church of Overhead Projector, The - The true religion. Currently has 1
member. Slowly expanding.
•Church of Perpetual Change - welcome to the unstructured church which
exists only in Cyberspace.
•Church of Perpetual Indulgence - angst-ridden essays and other rantings
pertaining to death, animosity, sin, redemption, drug culture, common
household pets, random violence, and much much more.
•Church of Shatnertology
•Church of the Bunny (3)
•Church of the Neo Children - This is a new, unorthodox religion. We are a
very free people, not binding all to live under the same rules.
•Church of Virus - a rational, atheistic religion memetically engineered to
fill an ecological niche in the idea-space of humanity created by recent
advances in knowledge.
•Cosmic Control Center - donations accepted.
•Cosmic Order of Heino - a cult devoted to German singing sensation, Heino.

•Cult of the Dead Cow
•cyberDeist religious society, the - A cyber based religion based on the
Age of Reason, by Thomas Paine. Religion of America's founding fathers.
•Dai-Uchu Jinja - basecamp for the Space-Commanders. Approaching the secret
of existence.
•Den Kybernetiske Kirke
•DMC - Dushi's Meditation Corner. every Friday fresh thoughts 4 meditation
and 2 think about. in German.
•First Church of Cyberspace
•First Church of Mad Scientist
•First Church of Wintermute - based on the works of William Gibson, we
believe that the internet will someday become sentient.
•First Cyberchurch of the Scientific God - Believes in a loving, scientific
God. Derived from Christianity and places emphasis on the teachings of
Christ blended with authentic modern science.
•Holy Order of the Lemon, The - on 21st of September 1996,the Order was
officially founded by a ritual action carried out at the weirs above
Islandbridge at the Irish War Memorial Park.
•Messiahs, Inc - How Jeremiah L Hermastone starts a Church-in-Reverse,
beats the IRS, patents God, and has more sex than Rush Limbaugh, but less
than JFK.
•New House, The - a virtual group marriage of a barter/exchange-of-services
group for assorted talented individuals who can grow off of each other's
strengths and ideas.
•OTISian Pages - Your web source for the OTISian faith, Purps, and the
IGHF.
•Religion and the Internet
•Religion of the Humanities - (ROTH) is the first true 'CyberChurch'. A new
religion without a physical location. ROTH is completely 'of the net'
•Society for the Brotherhood of the Sacrificial Goat - the society for all
those accused, persecuted, prosecuted, and otherwise blamed. Come on in for
relief. Blame us instead. Or join up, even.
•Sponge - Simple People Opposing Neverending Gaudy Endeavors.
•SuperChurch - The first and still the most praised. Come, be saved from
boredom.
•Technosophy - Issues/topics to be addressed include the philosophical
understanding of technology and where technologies of all kinds will be
taking humanity in the future.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-27-09 04:42 PM:

That's very unfair Wabbit.. Jack is saving the world for you and me.. in his own words he is a professional explorer hired by the UN to investigate the melting of polar caps

Quote from Trader666:

Because Jack is an environmental superhero, his "green" costume uses his recycled Christmas elf cap and doesn't have a cape to minimize his carbon footprint. Here's a pic of him poised to go out on another mission to save the world.

Posted by Trader666 on 04-27-09 05:31 PM:

And here's PROOF of Jack's claim... an action shot of him saving icebergs

Posted by Trader666 on 04-27-09 05:47 PM:

More PROOF... I think we all owe Jack an apology!

Posted by Trader666 on 04-27-09 06:00 PM:

How could you doubt him?

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-27-09 06:20 PM:

Quote from Trader666:

How could you doubt him?

He's our last and best chance against global warming..

After all his long incoherent rants are responsible for 60% of emissions

Posted by IronFist on 04-28-09 01:42 AM:

this thread was decent. holy derailment right here.

Posted by nkhoi on 04-28-09 01:48 AM:

Quote from IronFist:

this thread was decent. holy derailment right here.

it was never 'on-rail' in the first place.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-28-09 01:53 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

it was never 'on-rail' in the first place.

Much like your SCT trading

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-28-09 03:30 AM:

Subliminal Mind Control, Brain Washing, Media & Psychology on you tube

This Short flick will make you really think.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/24301...trol_the_proof/

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Eight on 04-28-09 03:53 AM:

What if someone brainwashes you, makes you join their cult and teaches you to make thousands of dollars per day trading the ES, with no strings attached... where's the Kool Aid in that scenario?

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-28-09 03:38 PM:

Quote from Eight:

What if someone brainwashes you, makes you join their cult and teaches you to make thousands of dollars per day trading the ES, with no strings attached... where's the Kool Aid in that scenario?

People who brain wash others are not about to turn over their edge to you so you can make money. Then you would have no use for them. They are going to use every thing in their power to not divulge anything useful. They often throw out tidbits of trading to keep you hooked. Without the mystery of their methods you and others will wander away and their cult will dissolve.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Thunderdog on 04-28-09 04:16 PM:

Quote from Eight:

What if someone brainwashes you, makes you join their cult and teaches you to make thousands of dollars per day trading the ES, with no strings attached... where's the Kool Aid in that scenario?

What if you're already wading in that Kool Aid you refer to, and don't even know it?

__________________
I'm handing you no blarney

Posted by jack hershey on 04-29-09 12:40 AM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

People who brain wash others are not about to turn over their edge to you so you can make money. Then you would have no use for them. They are going to use every thing in their power to not divulge anything useful. They often throw out tidbits of trading to keep you hooked. Without the mystery of their methods you and others will wander away and their cult will dissolve.

Some of those I work with really like the process. I do too.

My simple and uncomplicated comment to you is that you have not has the experience nor know what the long term outcomes are.

For me the heirachy of the things you speak of is: information at the top, power blow information and at the lowest, money.

Around 1990 there was a fairly good accounting of how many people were keeping three ring binders. It was over 10,000 and we lost track.

Passing it forward or paying it forward has gone on for about 50 years and over four generations.

You are an inventor; see the OP.

As I see it, information empowers and empowerment makes people wealthy. Then these people have two things: wealth and free time. They use their excess wealth to contribute to the well being of their communities and they can choose the community in which they live and have families.

You seem tuned into using people. I have sat on boards of Directors for over half of my life. Boards represent stockholders of they are volunteers (but they do get honorariums) on not-for-profits. These empowered people use ideas to create structures and processes in systems. What you describe and what comes from your mind seems to be somthing that no one would be doing since it does not work. It simply will not turn ideas or capital into useful operating systems that are productive.

There is never anything given up by passing it forward or paying it forward. It turns out to be a wiw/win proposition, in fact.

Your droll description of bits and pieces and controlling others is probably how you see yourself functioning.

It does not take brains to help others out; it takes living by principles. Principles allow things to get better by their synergism in a community. ET is a community. It has everything in it including a looney bin for loonies.

To be an informative resourse for others who become millionaires and very helpful in their communities is a nice place to be. Over the last five years it was possible to observe that happening.

Supporting the life style of professional who help others is a good local contribution. Making it possible for a professional to contribute one day of profesional sevicies is like extending knowledge and information to the powerless and poor. Ir is extending solutions to the clients who otherwise would be left out in the cold.

Why you don't get it and why you are not helpful to the needy is beyond the pale. you are a "taker" and don't know anything about "giving". someday you may find out that no one is put on this earth to just "take". we are all here to "give" to others.

Obviously, there is nothing I can give you and you certainly have nothing to offer to others.

This is a basic ATS, it seems natural that anyone would want to be part of making it to give it to others. Understand? No... Too bad....

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-29-09 12:50 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Some of those I work with really like the process. I do too.

you hide behind your poorly executed NLP because you can't trade and SCT simply doesn't work

You chickened out of another live trading challenge this week and therefore must be branded a fraud and coward

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-29-09 03:40 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

Some of those I work with really like the process. I do too.

My simple and uncomplicated comment to you is that you have not has the experience nor know what the long term outcomes are.

Jack, I believe you and others are the entire point of this thread. The internet is being used by unscrupulous people (are you one?) to advance their own personal agendas. These people are coercing new traders in to believing they are trading “messiahs” who will lead these new traders to trading profitability (using mind control techniques I have mentioned).

The attached you-tube video will show you can a better cult leader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

By the way I have trading 35 years so I do have the experience to know what the long term outcomes are.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by fearless9 on 04-29-09 04:18 PM:

As always, life is a two edged sword.

In order for a Mind Controller to ply his/her trade they need people who exhibit vulnerabilities that they have no addressed.

Very much like a PC with open ports and therefore vulnerable to attack.

The greatest vulnerability amongst Traders (if ET is anything to go by) is greed ... pure naked greed ... the overwhelming desire to grab something before a full understanding of the "what, where and how" is achieved.

Partly this is borne of laziness but mainly because the Trader is already preconditioned to the "me" world .... the world of consumption and therefore not production.

Hence the "easy come, easy go" world of the Mind Controller.

Imagine for a moment if people were realistic about their own abilities and therefore realistic about the requirements of a consistently profitable trading life.

Mind Controllers would find scant pickings amongst the awkward questions that were placed before them and most would shrivel and die.

However that is not the world that exists in 2009.
As more and more people lose their jobs, so more and more people offer up their slim savings to Mind Controllers offering the promised land.

Sadly, this problem within the industry is flowing down the tree from wall street to main street as desperation clouds any semblance of reality.

regards
f9

Posted by fearless9 on 04-29-09 04:37 PM:

The problem with realism in trading (since this is what we are talking about) is that it is internally generated.

Sure, you can discuss rsi, macd, channels etc with unknown people on forums such as ET, TL etc, but all this amounts to swapping hubcaps compared to the real engine of trading ... and that is the Trader him/herself.

Until a Trader really knows what he or she must be prepared to give and prepared to do, then they remain highly vulnerable to every trick, posting and free trial on offer.

How can they sense what is reasonable in terms of input versus output when they have no sense of realism concerning trading.

regards
f9

Posted by Trader666 on 04-29-09 05:33 PM:

Jack, there's a world of difference between you putting up a bunch of arrows in hindsight versus buying and selling twists and turns IN REALTIME. Understand? No... Too bad....

Quote from jack hershey:

This is a basic ATS, it seems natural that anyone would want to be part of making it to give it to others. Understand? No... Too bad....

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-29-09 06:01 PM:

Mind control has been around for a long time. One of the classic techniques being applied to ET Traders on the internet (I will let you decide who I'm talking about) are parts of the psychological program called coercive persuasion. This technique is has been used by traders around the world to keep their groups “in-line” and is now being applied to ETs threads.

A coercive persuasion program is a behavioral change technology applied to cause the "learning" and "adoption" of a set of behaviors or a trading ideology under certain conditions. It is distinguished from other forms of benign social learning or peaceful persuasion by the conditions under which it is conducted and by the techniques of internet message and posting manipulation employed to suppress particular behaviors. Over time, coercive persuasion, a psychological force akin in some ways to our legal concepts of undue influence, can be even MORE effective than pain, torture, drugs, and use of physical force and legal threats.

Coercive persuasion or thought reform as it is sometimes known, is best understood as a coordinated system of graduated coercive influence and behavior control designed to deceptively and surreptitiously manipulate and influence traders, usually in a group setting under an ET thread, in order for the originators of the program to profit in some way, normally financially or politically.
The essential strategy used by those operating such programs is to systematically select, sequence and coordinate numerous coercive persuasion tactics over CONTINUOUS PERIODS OF TIME. There are seven main tactic types found in various combinations in a coercive persuasion program. A coercive persuasion program can still be quite effective without the presence of ALL seven of these tactic types.

TACTIC 1. The trader is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through suggestibility-increasing techniques such as giving the trader: A. Extended audio, visual fixation drills with graphs or trading data; B. Excessive exact repetition of routine trading activities

TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a trader's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with other traders is abridged, as is contact with traders who do not share the threads group-approved attitudes. Other traders are encouraged to give a new trader entering the thread praise for their insights about their trading method.

TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in group communication. Unwritten rules exist about permissible trading topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. A trader "in-group" language is usually constructed with specific new trading terminology which is not part of any existing methods. This keeps “outsiders” from criticizing the thread and the traders in the group.

TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a trader to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her trading experience of self and prior trading conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize the trader and undermine the traders basic consciousness, market awareness, basic trading views, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their trading history, and adopt a new version of causality for previous trading problems.

TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a trader's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness in trading.
Often the cult trading leader will chastise a new or fledgling trader for not seeing how simple trading really is. This trader is made to give their remaining trading opinions over to their new trading cult.
TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation in responses about trading questions, loss of privilege of being privately emailed, social isolation by not responding to their posts, creating intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, about the traders abilities.

TACTIC 7. Certain secular psychological threats [force] are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence by being told to leave the thread and not come back. Threats are often present in the thread dialog.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by jack hershey on 04-29-09 06:04 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

Jack, I believe you and others are the entire point of this thread. The internet is being used by unscrupulous people (are you one?) to advance their own personal agendas. These people are coercing new traders in to believing they are trading “messiahs” who will lead these new traders to trading profitability (using mind control techniques I have mentioned).

The attached you-tube video will show you can a better cult leader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

By the way I have trading 35 years so I do have the experience to know what the long term outcomes are.

I have an agenda. Pleasantly It was made available by two people, my faculty department head at RPI and a colleague at IBM who graduated from MIT. We used TA to make money and passed it forward to others. Knowledge, skills and wealth are the outcomes and they were from the beginnings 53 years ago.

There is nothing unscrupulous about helping others. I do that and you carp about whatever has pressed you buttons (it is not improving knowledge and skills of trading through gaining experience).

Personally, I do not coerce anyone into anything. The market's offer is self evident; it is not complex to make an ATS that did this attached chart; and it is simple to use such an ATS. you were either on the team working with the creator or you weren't. Everyone here was given the choice.

Your terminology for those who help others and your terminology for those who do not help others but are well known is the same. You are very clear that you are not part of either group.

Messiah, guru, etc are just terms people like you make up to describe something or other.

Some of us traders happen to do very well; this is true of all fields of endeavor. In trading, there is no way to cheat and win. A lot of people who love to cheat get "educated" very quickly but that does not change who they are. They are just the lower strata of mankind.

There are very few ways to support the learningof others simply because people come from so many backgrounds and life styles.

Because learning to trade parallels learning to read, it is common to use pictures. I am including a basic one here. If a person "gets it", meaning he sees the significance of the picture, he will, naturally embark on gathering the resources to go further and learn to learn and build his mind for the task of trading.

Neurolinguistic programming is self explanatory. NLP is how a person learns to read and write, do arithmetic, and learn to fit into society. I follow the history of NLP and in particular Tad James in that field and Liz is certified in areas associated with NLP and hypnosis. I am heart smart and very familiar with the Fourrier analysis of heart function and associated equipment as a detector of mental coherence.

I follow the precepts of Stark and Stark as they apply the Buteyko dicoveries of the role of carbon dioxide and the Bohr Effect regarding oxygen depravation.

this is a well rounded confluence of considerations with respect to trading markets.

Drills, it turns out are how to have a CPM for learning to learn and get to expert trading by extracting the market offer.

The illustration appears bar by bar on people's trading displays as part of their learning process, if they wish by the choices that they have made. They add contracts as time passes. They can use three systems to process the extracted profits.

My suggestion to you is to print the illustration and cover it with a sheet of paper. slowly slide the sheet to the right to uncover and log the critcal infomation from the chart. You will see as does anyone using any method that trades appear where there must on the chart at a basic level of trading. I do 50 trades on that chart. You can pencil in the additional required trades and post them as an illustration if you wish.

you will find out that dong this day after day will not make you an unscrupulous guru or Messiah. you will just be the same person.

Of course others who have the needs (as you do) will make a person like me into a bad guy and a guru who is controlling the minds of others.

Neoxx slide that sheet on ten days of information through six levels of trading. He also made a family of curves of the yield of the ten days for each level of trading week by week and month by month. It was sumply a drill in support of learning to learn and then learning to trade. He learned what the market offers to various skill levels people have.

You make yourself into a person who has an enemy named Jack Hershey. So have many others, tons and tons of them.

They spent hour upon hour reading me stuff reading the stuff learns wrote, reading five years of the journals. They taught themselves to hate and to criticize. They learned to be cinical. They learned to go out of control and use hundreds of aliases. They learn to repeat their beliefs over and over. They learned they had to start threads daily. They learned they had to band together to fight against the enemy to vanquish him or them and stop them from taking the market's offer. They learned they had to protect the innocent from the enemy they created. They learned to complain about moderators.

These people are B people like you are a B person. I happen to be an A person instead.

What I do is support the learning process of others to learn in the deepest way how the market works. There are better supporters than me. Spydertrader is the consumate helper and he uses the medical model of learning to learn. For five solid years he went step by step in step with learners supporting them in the best possible manner.

the illustration is the work of a learner. He is an orderly vell balanced expert programmer who deals in the market's workings. What you see is the basic operation of the market and how an ATS takes the market's offer. Obviously you have a coding of this sort as a consequence of 35 years trading. On the other hand the team doing this ATS has much less than a year involved. It is version 1.3 preceded by versions 1.0, 1.1, and 1.2.

In ET, I don't see many teams at work except the B people teams who are all mind controlled by each other and some have become OCD's as a consequence of their interaction and reinforcement.

You may want to help get these guys out of the troubles they have, by learning, gotten themsleves into. Certainly I am responsible for their plight and they can't make any money in the markets. B people have a rule: they would rather think they are right than be rich. Obviously everyone gets the consequences of their choices.

In ET, its richness comes from being able to see these choices made, and the consequences appear.

I loved going through the test I was given by the team that made the ATS. You can read it. I loved the single post Spyder made to flush a B person's toilet. It is even funny that the person can't understand the print except to know it had two perfect calls.

I love those PM's when a person shifts upward to another oredr of magnitude of profits by compounding. I love hearing from people in remote places who now can send their kids to America for college. 25 exchanges are used now and the sun never sets on the SCT trading. Spyder did it with his journals. I get to take the "incomings" LOL.....

Posted by jack hershey on 04-29-09 06:08 PM:

Quote from Trader666:

Jack, there's a world of difference between you putting up a bunch of arrows in hindsight versus buying and selling twists and turns IN REALTIME. Understand? No... Too bad....

I understand.

Explain how to put up, bar by bar, the chart you see here.

Skip the "send me the ATS and I'll do it for you".

Is there a way to do it, even remotely, so the A people on ET can see it?

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-29-09 06:10 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

As always, life is a two edged sword.

In order for a Mind Controller to ply his/her trade they need people who exhibit vulnerabilities that they have no addressed.

Very much like a PC with open ports and therefore vulnerable to attack.

The greatest vulnerability amongst Traders (if ET is anything to go by) is greed ... pure naked greed ... the overwhelming desire to grab something before a full understanding of the "what, where and how" is achieved.

Partly this is borne of laziness but mainly because the Trader is already preconditioned to the "me" world .... the world of consumption and therefore not production.

Hence the "easy come, easy go" world of the Mind Controller.

Imagine for a moment if people were realistic about their own abilities and therefore realistic about the requirements of a consistently profitable trading life.

Mind Controllers would find scant pickings amongst the awkward questions that were placed before them and most would shrivel and die.

However that is not the world that exists in 2009.
As more and more people lose their jobs, so more and more people offer up their slim savings to Mind Controllers offering the promised land.

Sadly, this problem within the industry is flowing down the tree from wall street to main street as desperation clouds any semblance of reality.

regards
f9

You have some good thoughts. But it is much more than just greed. These traders are hungering for acceptance in the "trading community."

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by jack hershey on 04-29-09 06:11 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

The problem with realism in trading (since this is what we are talking about) is that it is internally generated.

Sure, you can discuss rsi, macd, channels etc with unknown people on forums such as ET, TL etc, but all this amounts to swapping hubcaps compared to the real engine of trading ... and that is the Trader him/herself.

Until a Trader really knows what he or she must be prepared to give and prepared to do, then they remain highly vulnerable to every trick, posting and free trial on offer.

How can they sense what is reasonable in terms of input versus output when they have no sense of realism concerning trading.

regards
f9

Thank you for your insightful comments.

Posted by Eight on 04-29-09 06:49 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

People who brain wash others are not about to turn over their edge to you so you can make money. Then you would have no use for them. They are going to use every thing in their power to not divulge anything useful. They often throw out tidbits of trading to keep you hooked. Without the mystery of their methods you and others will wander away and their cult will dissolve.

So I guess you are saying that anybody with the cult leadership skills and mentality would never share with people just to bask in the glory of their appreciation?

You are more than just a little closed in your opinion there and limited in your ability to imagine a scenario... I posit that it is entirely possible that somebody could indeed form a cult and share all the info they knew about trading... there are a lot of different mentalities out there, read up on personality disorders on Wikipedia, they are well understood nowadays and they are well defined in those articles... it is far from being outside the realm of reason to think that a cult leader could really help his followers, what better cult to lead than a really rich one, who wants a bunch of poor losers hanging around.. well there was Jim Jones but he was outside the realm of an internet cult leader, he had physical access to people and literally was extorting them, he ruled by fear. It's pretty hard to rule by fear via the internet...

Posted by fearless9 on 04-29-09 07:17 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

You have some good thoughts. But it is much more than just greed. These traders are hungering for acceptance in the "trading community."

"The greatest vulnerability amongst Traders (if ET is anything to go by) is greed ... pure naked greed ... the overwhelming desire to grab something before a full understanding of the "what, where and how" is achieved."

The second half of this sentence intentionally qualifies the first.

When someone understands the "what, where and how" of trading then the perception of greed/hunger disappears and the hole left behind is replaced by the thoughts and subsequent actions that generate consistent profits.

Until this thought process occurs the trader continues to bluff him/herself and dazzle others with stupidity and childish statements.

It is the very reason for failure in this game. Simply because at the retail level there is no possibility of employing the level of manipulation being played out in the outside world with so much apparent success.

regards
f9
I imagine the greatest hurdle most traders must overcome is to learn to think for themselves.

Posted by fearless9 on 04-29-09 07:19 PM:

Quote from Eight:

It's pretty hard to rule by fear via the internet...

You probably want to rethink this statement.

regards
f9

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-29-09 07:29 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

"The greatest vulnerability amongst Traders (if ET is anything to go by) is greed ... pure naked greed ... the overwhelming desire to grab something before a full understanding of the "what, where and how" is achieved."

The second half of this sentence intentionally qualifies the first.

When someone understands the "what, where and how" of trading then the perception of greed/hunger disappears and the hole left behind is replaced by the thoughts and subsequent actions that generate consistent profits.

Until this thought process occurs the trader continues to bluff him/herself and dazzle others with stupidity and childish statements.

It is the very reason for failure in this game. Simply because at the retail level there is no possibility of employing the level of manipulation being played out in the outside world with so much apparent success.

regards
f9

That's an incredibly insightful post f9.

We have all seen these actions taken time and again by any number of different "resident gurus" (and their associates), who when put to the test of proving the profitability of their system (via live calls, blotters or trading competitions) choose to resort to the very actions that you mention in the second part of your post, no doubt for the very same reasons mentioned.

In short, I am very glad that I didn't come to ET expecting to find anything, for if I had of, that expectation would have been sorely dissappointed.

__________________
...

Posted by fearless9 on 04-29-09 08:21 PM:

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

In short, I am very glad that I didn't come to ET expecting to find anything, for if I had of, that expectation would have been sorely dissappointed.

I think ET is a very difficult training ground for a new trader.
By the time I discovered ET, I had already formed the conclusion that I needed to follow price and only use enhancements where I wanted to highlight a particular pattern.

If I had to start all over again, that is where I would begin.

regards
f9

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-29-09 08:39 PM:

Quote from jack hershey:

I have an agenda. Pleasantly It was made available by two people, my faculty department head at RPI and a colleague at IBM who graduated from MIT.

Jack you are a failed insurance agent turned failed trader.. when will your fragile ego accept reality?

Posted by Searay123 on 04-29-09 10:32 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

good morning,

I see that JH is taking "incoming" again.

It is my opinion from my years of travel and living on planet earth that the most difficult and therefore most elusive task facing each and everyone of us, is to take control of our own lives.
This involves an ever increasing level of Self appraisal and Self honesty until a certain point of detachment is reached, whereby you can see very clearly the games that are played out around you, and yet they neither bother nor involve you.

This is the point where trading (and other matters that matter) become obvious.

To even approach this point requires the undoing of all the conditioning that has been imposed upon you from your day of birth.
It really does not matter whether it was well intentioned or whether it was not; the point is that it does not belong to you and therefore is taking up space that actually belongs to you.
There really is not much more to add, as the human mind is more than capable of abundantly caring for itself and it's host (you).
All it requires is a kick-start in the form of clearing away the debris from past storms.

As always, if there is anything in this post that does not suit you, then just simply ignore it.

regards
f9

Thanks, one of the best posts I have ever read on this forum.

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-30-09 01:32 AM:

Quote from Eight:

So I guess you are saying that anybody with the cult leadership skills and mentality would never share with people just to bask in the glory of their appreciation?

You are more than just a little closed in your opinion there and limited in your ability to imagine a scenario... I posit that it is entirely possible that somebody could indeed form a cult and share all the info they knew about trading... there are a lot of different mentalities out there, read up on personality disorders on Wikipedia, they are well understood nowadays and they are well defined in those articles... it is far from being outside the realm of reason to think that a cult leader could really help his followers, what better cult to lead than a really rich one, who wants a bunch of poor losers hanging around.. well there was Jim Jones but he was outside the realm of an internet cult leader, he had physical access to people and literally was extorting them, he ruled by fear. It's pretty hard to rule by fear via the internet...

Eight -

“People who brain wash others are not about to turn over their edge to you so you can make money.” I still stand by that statement. But, let us examine it more in-depth.

The statement doesn’t say that the majority of ET traders do not contribute trading ideas. Some traders do share just to bask in the glory of their fellow trader’s appreciation. I get PM’s all the time as do many traders and have answered many questions in-depth about trading.

You stated “… You are more than just a little closed in your opinion there and limited in your ability to imagine a scenario...” Please read again what I wrote “…People who brain wash others…” It doesn’t say that everyone on ET who opens a thread on ET is a brain washer. It doesn’t imply a ET cult cannot exist that has legitimate trading objectives. The whole point of this thread is some are not straight. Don’t believe me. Look at the 1000’s of cult replies on ET and you will see who they are.

You stated” … It's pretty hard to rule by fear via the internet...” That is simply not true. Tell that to the 159 parents this year who have found their children dead from hanging or slashed wrists from internet cults….

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-30-09 01:54 AM:

Quote from fearless9:

"The greatest vulnerability amongst Traders (if ET is anything to go by) is greed ... pure naked greed ... the overwhelming desire to grab something before a full understanding of the "what, where and how" is achieved."

The second half of this sentence intentionally qualifies the first.

When someone understands the "what, where and how" of trading then the perception of greed/hunger disappears and the hole left behind is replaced by the thoughts and subsequent actions that generate consistent profits.

Until this thought process occurs the trader continues to bluff him/herself and dazzle others with stupidity and childish statements.

It is the very reason for failure in this game. Simply because at the retail level there is no possibility of employing the level of manipulation being played out in the outside world with so much apparent success.

regards
f9
I imagine the greatest hurdle most traders must overcome is to learn to think for themselves.

You are very insightful in your writing. I like the quote.

"The greatest vulnerability amongst Traders (if ET is anything to go by) is greed ... pure naked greed ... the overwhelming desire to grab something before a full understanding of the "what, where and how" is achieved."

However, I respectfully have to disagree. If greed is the only motivator of people we would not have to deal with these dam politicians and their continuous lust for power (with some greed thrown in). Many traders also have a power lust. A few abuse it and become the mind controllers I speak about.

This statement is a fundamental point.

“I imagine the greatest hurdle most traders must overcome is to learn to think for themselves.”

I would add “Even fewer put what they think they know to the test so they may have good cause to defend their beliefs.

Regards,

RabbitOne

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by nkhoi on 04-30-09 02:23 AM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

[] ...

I would add “Even fewer put what they think they know to the test so they may have good cause to defend their beliefs.

Regards,

RabbitOne [B]

key words right there, no test = no belief = no winning trade.

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 03:26 AM:

What happened to the second buy arrow, Jack? Also, what are those blank spots above the purple arrows and below the green arrows?

Quote from jack hershey:

I understand.

Explain how to put up, bar by bar, the chart you see here.

Skip the "send me the ATS and I'll do it for you".

Is there a way to do it, even remotely, so the A people on ET can see it?

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-30-09 03:38 AM:

Quote from nkhoi:

key words right there, no test = no belief = no winning trade.

That's why you are still a paper trader nkhoi.. you and Jack put it to the test after the market has closed

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-30-09 04:15 AM:

Quote from Trader666:

What happened to the second buy arrow, Jack? Also, what are those blank spots above the purple arrows and below the green arrows?

You've just exposed the "magician's secret" of SCT Trading, Trader666, it's one huge exercise in photoshop and mind games.

__________________
...

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 04-30-09 04:20 AM:

If you know this, why do you continue to lower yourself to being involved in "it"?

Break free man, break free

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

You've just exposed the "magician's secret" of SCT Trading, Trader666, it's one huge exercise in photoshop and mind games.

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-30-09 04:25 AM:

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

If you know this, why do you continue to lower yourself to being involved in "it"?

Break free man, break free

Think of a Crossing Guard with a big DETOUR Sign up, waving cars to make a left and go up the road, instead of down this path and getting stuck in the quicksand.

"ref. Neoxx's Technical Tragedy thread in chit-chat for an example of what I am talking about".

__________________
...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-30-09 04:34 AM:

Stages of a Hershey Trader

Swordsman (R. Raskolnikov) is a great example of the stages a Hershey trader goes through while studying Jack's "teachings."

Stage 1 -- Eagerness and Ingratiation

licking my chops as i only get better yes, agree jack and spyder are great, jack is a little tough to follow but his teachings, once untangled, are very helpful!
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...44&#post1563544

Stage 2 -- Delusion and Defensiveness

Im sure you probably didnt know this but actually on the very first page of the "Spydertraders Jack Hersheys Futures" thread there are links to many pieces of info for people to do their due dilligence first, ranging from the terminology to concepts to just basic background info. Anyone who read that stuff and continued on would never been seen as following a guru blindly. And it cleary states that one should read all the associated links before moving on.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...11&#post1862711

Stage 3 -- Denial

I've repeatedly told you I don't trade SCT only that I asked some questions over a year and a half ago
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...39&#post2082939

Stage 4 -- Acceptance

Not once have I ever spoken to Jack Hershey and for all I know he's a shitty trader like you all say.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...04&#post1753104

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-30-09 04:34 AM:

Quote from T2GR8T:

Stages of a Hershey Trader

Swordsman (R. Raskolnikov) is a great example of the stages a Hershey trader goes through while studying Jack's "teachings."

Stage 1 -- Eagerness and Ingratiation

licking my chops as i only get better yes, agree jack and spyder are great, jack is a little tough to follow but his teachings, once untangled, are very helpful!
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...44&#post1563544

Stage 2 -- Delusion and Defensiveness

Im sure you probably didnt know this but actually on the very first page of the "Spydertraders Jack Hersheys Futures" thread there are links to many pieces of info for people to do their due dilligence first, ranging from the terminology to concepts to just basic background info. Anyone who read that stuff and continued on would never been seen as following a guru blindly. And it cleary states that one should read all the associated links before moving on.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...11&#post1862711

Stage 3 -- Denial

I've repeatedly told you I don't trade SCT only that I asked some questions over a year and a half ago
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...39&#post2082939

Stage 4 -- Acceptance

Not once have I ever spoken to Jack Hershey and for all I know he's a shitty trader like you all say.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...04&#post1753104

LOL, thanks for that.

__________________
...

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 04:35 AM:

Why don't you break free of coming to Jack's rescue? And Stockholm Syndrome?

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

If you know this, why do you continue to lower yourself to being involved in "it"?

Break free man, break free

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 04-30-09 04:38 AM:

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

Think of a Crossing Guard with a big DETOUR Sign up, waving cars to make a left and go up the road, instead of down this path and getting stuck in the quicksand.

"ref. Neoxx's Technical Tragedy thread in chit-chat for an example of what I am talking about".

You make a pretty big assumption......that you are somehow worthy of listening to blindly over someone actually experiencing "it" on their own. This is an anonymous message board, you hold no more or less clout than the very man that you detest.

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-30-09 04:42 AM:

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

You make a pretty big assumption......that you are somehow worthy of listening to blindly over someone actually experiencing "it" on their own. This is an anonymous message board, you hold no more or less clout than the very man that you detest.

This from the same guy who ran away with his tail between his legs when I challenged him to post his blotter against mine.

Yeah, I might hold no more or less clout in your mind, but I definitely do in mine.

__________________
...

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 04:43 AM:

So you believe one needs to personally experience the true cult experience and that's the only way one will really "understand?"

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

You make a pretty big assumption......that you are somehow worthy of listening to blindly over someone actually experiencing "it" on their own.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 04-30-09 04:53 AM:

I'm just above you in terms of all things trading related. And that includes being above some childish "challenge".

No offense buddy, but for a real challenge to take place, real names would have to come forward and you are definitely not worth any of that hassle. You continue having fun as the "crossing guard" trying to fill your karma bank. Why don't you try being a big brother to a child, believe me that'll do wonders, more so than your duties here.

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

This from the same guy who ran away with his tail between his legs when I challenged him to post his blotter against mine.

Yeah, I might hold no more or less clout in your mind, but I definitely do in mine.

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 04:58 AM:

You have no idea how pathetic you look, always appearing to defend your master, Jack, and then getting your ass kicked as you play the same lame psychobabble games.

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

I'm just above you in terms of all things trading related. And that includes being above some childish "challenge".

No offense buddy, but for a real challenge to take place, real names would have to come forward and you are definitely not worth any of that hassle. You continue having fun as the "crossing guard" trying to fill your karma bank. Why don't you try being a big brother to a child, believe me that'll do wonders, more so than your duties here.

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 04-30-09 05:01 AM:

As opposed to YOU who keeps responding to me despite the fact that I'm not even talking to you, LoL!

PS I am even more above you in terms of trading prowess. I'll admit that mandel has made many quality posts on trading; you are just worthless.

Quote from Trader666:

You have no idea how pathetic you look

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 04-30-09 05:01 AM:

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

I'm just above you in terms of all things trading related. And that includes being above some childish "challenge".

ROTFLMAO!

Sounds like "yellow fever" to me.

__________________
...

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 05:05 AM:

Where's the media coverage, Jack? The foundations? The Hershey hospitals and charities?

Quote from jack hershey:

Around 1990 there was a fairly good accounting of how many people were keeping three ring binders. It was over 10,000 and we lost track.

Quote from jack hershey:

I love those PM's when a person shifts upward to another oredr of magnitude of profits by compounding. I love hearing from people in remote places who now can send their kids to America for college. 25 exchanges are used now and the sun never sets on the SCT trading. Spyder did it with his journals.

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 05:08 AM:

Coming from a supreme loser like you I'll take that as a compliment, thanks ratshit... you're my favorite turd

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

I am even more above you in terms of trading prowess. I'll admit that mandel has made many quality posts on trading; you are just worthless.

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 05:22 AM:

r.ratshit has run away yet again...

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

ROTFLMAO!

Sounds like "yellow fever" to me.

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-30-09 06:05 AM:

Quote from Trader666:

r.ratshit has run away yet again...

Swordsman always was magnificent in reverse

Posted by jonnyy40 on 04-30-09 11:12 AM:

Mr Hershey claims he is hated (so must be something in it then,the newcomer thinks.I'd better take a look).Previously he has used many multiple aliases when he has specifically stated he would leave this 'trading' board.(Causing distress and anger in those already manipulated for fear of being deprived of him).He may or may not have suffered from multiple illnesses.All of which added to the stress of those already manipulated via fear he would not be able to impart his 'knowledge'. You're really not hated Mr Hershey.You just like to maintain the 'feeling of discernment' in the minds of those you already control by claiming so.Happily enough there are other places where you don't venture.Ciao

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 12:48 PM:

I hadn't thought of that, thanks!

Quote from jonnyy40:

He may or may not have suffered from multiple illnesses.All of which added to the stress of those already manipulated via fear he would not be able to impart his 'knowledge'.

Posted by fearless9 on 04-30-09 03:58 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

................................................

If you are aware of mind control 101 from a trading guru on ET speak up. Let’s write about it. This is your chance to tell your fellow traders about your insights or experiences with trading cults on ET. If you think trading cults are not a problem ET say so.

And this brings us to the delicate subject of fear.
Given that we are not being chased by wild animals, locked up with snakes or persecuted for witchcraft, then exactly what is there to be afraid of when trading.
Granted, we might fear the outcome of a trade, but we can rationalise this away by calling it "the fear of the unknown"

In a sense this label is correct but it is being applied to the wrong process.
It is not the outcome of the next trade that instills fear within us, but more than likely it is a part of our magnificent brain that is alerting us to the sad fact that we simply do not know what we are doing.

If we can accept this premise then we can move on and outgrow it through the intellectual process of leaning.
If we ignore it or worse still, if we deliberately relabel it and assign it to market conditions conspiring against us, then we are in big big trouble.
Actually we are in deep doo-doo since nothing we do is done in isolation and this behavioural pattern spills over into the rest of our lives.
Or to put it in it's correct context, the rest of our lives have spilled over into our trading.

This then makes us extremely vulnerable to manipulation and the obvious open port is our mind.
The temptation to attach ourselves to a trading guru proves overwhelming as he/she provides us with the comfort of other lost souls plus a target for our warped logic as our account balance drains away.

Our frustration is kept in check by the guru's practiced manipulation and we find ourselves supporting our losing guru in an effect to correct our hopeless behaviour.

How pathetically sad is this situation.

In the real world this vulnerability to manipulation is sugar coated and never pushed to it's absolute, since we are all meant to dangle at the end of a string forever ... sadly, the credit crisis has ruined the game for now.

The trading world however is brutally honest and many a trader returns to the safety of their manipulative real world covered in bruises and excuses.
This in turn increases the level of their vulnerability.

For those traders who are in between gurus and are as helpless as a ship without a rudder, there is always ET.... a sanctuary within the trading wilderness where naked frustration can be poured upon the innocent and the equally frustrated ... no distinction is made.

regards
f9

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-30-09 04:48 PM:

Quote from jonnyy40:

Mr Hershey claims he is hated (so must be something in it then,the newcomer thinks.I'd better take a look).Previously he has used many multiple aliases when he has specifically stated he would leave this 'trading' board.(Causing distress and anger in those already manipulated for fear of being deprived of him).He may or may not have suffered from multiple illnesses.All of which added to the stress of those already manipulated via fear he would not be able to impart his 'knowledge'. You're really not hated Mr Hershey.You just like to maintain the 'feeling of discernment' in the minds of those you already control by claiming so.Happily enough there are other places where you don't venture.Ciao

Myth: People who have left ET cults should just get over it.

Unfortunately, it is not so simple. Former trading cultists had their entire trading method, minds, and personalities deeply invested in a deceptive cult leader. Many traders will suffer from very real psychological, and even situational difficulties that will take a long time and a lot of study to overcome.

Some of these problems can include anxiety, depression, guilt, anger, indecisiveness, difficulty integrating back into regular ET threads, confusion and disorientation and difficultly adapting to another trading method.

This is equally true of the cult leader who can have deeper problems than their previous followers.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-30-09 05:43 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

And this brings us to the delicate subject of fear.
Given that we are not being chased by wild animals, locked up with snakes or persecuted for witchcraft, then exactly what is there to be afraid of when trading.
Granted, we might fear the outcome of a trade, but we can rationalise this away by calling it "the fear of the unknown"

In a sense this label is correct but it is being applied to the wrong process.
It is not the outcome of the next trade that instills fear within us, but more than likely it is a part of our magnificent brain that is alerting us to the sad fact that we simply do not know what we are doing.

If we can accept this premise then we can move on and outgrow it through the intellectual process of leaning.
If we ignore it or worse still, if we deliberately relabel it and assign it to market conditions conspiring against us, then we are in big big trouble.
Actually we are in deep doo-doo since nothing we do is done in isolation and this behavioural pattern spills over into the rest of our lives.
Or to put it in it's correct context, the rest of our lives have spilled over into our trading.

This then makes us extremely vulnerable to manipulation and the obvious open port is our mind.
The temptation to attach ourselves to a trading guru proves overwhelming as he/she provides us with the comfort of other lost souls plus a target for our warped logic as our account balance drains away.

Our frustration is kept in check by the guru's practiced manipulation and we find ourselves supporting our losing guru in an effect to correct our hopeless behaviour.

How pathetically sad is this situation.

In the real world this vulnerability to manipulation is sugar coated and never pushed to it's absolute, since we are all meant to dangle at the end of a string forever ... sadly, the credit crisis has ruined the game for now.

The trading world however is brutally honest and many a trader returns to the safety of their manipulative real world covered in bruises and excuses.
This in turn increases the level of their vulnerability.

For those traders who are in between gurus and are as helpless as a ship without a rudder, there is always ET.... a sanctuary within the trading wilderness where naked frustration can be poured upon the innocent and the equally frustrated ... no distinction is made.

regards
f9

Fearless9 – Your insights into mind control are awesome. These sentences sum it all up perfectly.

“The temptation to attach ourselves to a trading guru proves overwhelming as he/she provides us with the comfort of other lost souls plus a target for our warped logic as our account balance drains away.”

“In the real world this vulnerability to manipulation is sugar coated and never pushed to it's absolute, since we are all meant to dangle at the end of a string forever..”

“For those traders who are in between gurus and are as helpless as a ship without a rudder, there is always ET.... a sanctuary within the trading wilderness where naked frustration can be poured upon the innocent and the equally frustrated ... no distinction is made.”

Myth: Mind Controlling a trader involves physical restraint, hypnosis, flashing images, and a swinging lamp.

These images come from movie-makers, novelists, and TV writers who need dramatic imagery and gripping stories to keep us entertained. Real-life mind control is not usually so exciting.

Early studies of mind control were done on Communist China and POWs. These manipulators had the advantage of physical force to detain, torture, starve, and kill their victims. They also had total and complete control of information. They had the power to debilitate, instill total dependence, and cause real dread in the hearts of their captives.

In ET threads we have relative freedom, so those who wish to control us must first persuade us and earn our trust. The Three D's are now: Deception, Dependency, and Dread.

Since ET threads have no swinging lamp and torture devices that likely to tip us off, ET cults need to be a bit more stealthy in their mind control methods. The goal is to instill complete trust in the trading group and cult leadership. After that, we're likely to believe a lot of things and change our behaviors to match what we observe in the trading group and what we see in writing.

One item that surprises most traders is ET has social pressure and even more important that we all may succumb to social pressures of the ET thread. If this happens our emotions can be manipulated, and our critical reasoning abilities can be altered or completely stripped away.

Once we are socialized then we learn cult trading jargon (a loaded trading language) and trading phrases that stop our thoughts from going the wrong direction (away from the trading group). While we are learning this new trading jargon we ask questions. This is where we are shamed for not having read and memorized the trading mantras being presented.

This social process creates the dependency. We can be deflated by ET written shame, and simultaneously inflated by the arrogance and elitism of our trading cult. In this process we make written public commitments to reinforce ourselves and become even more dependent. Phobias are induced. We come to believe that our trading lives, our trading identities, our trading principles, even possibly our very souls are in danger if we do not obey the trading group and cult leader, if we do not continue to believe the thought of being ejected from the ET thread paralyzes us.

By this time, we are trapped. No interrogation rooms or torture chambers are necessary.

There are also a few myths about altered states of consciousness.

It is very natural and common for the human brain to change states of consciousness. It does not require drugs, meditation or hypnosis. We are in an altered state when we are falling asleep and when we dream. We are prone to changing states when we read, learn, concentrate, watch TV, listen to music, drive, and create. Our mind is capable of tuning out unimportant or repetitive information so we can focus on more relevant cognitive tasks. Sometimes the conscious side of the brain wants to shut down for a little while and we "space off". We can become so involved in a story or concentrating on an idea that we lose all awareness of the outside world. Music and creative functions can shift us into the right-brain and subconscious, where we are more emotional, visual and sensing, and therefore less rational.

We're quite comfortable with most altered states because we experience them every day. It doesn't take much for a manipulator to subtly switch a person to a more emotional state, or cause someone to become absorbed in a story, or even make someone space off and trance out. While in these states, we're not at the total mercy of a would-be mind controller, but we are more easily influenced, especially if the manipulator is someone we trust.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by fearless9 on 04-30-09 06:22 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

..........................

In ET threads we have relative freedom, so those who wish to control us must first persuade us and earn our trust.................

That is where the problem lies for most traders .... FREEDOM

Often dreamed of and never experienced.

And so they set off chasing a dream that they cannot define, the plan being that the never ending in-flow of profits will take care of everything that is intolerable in their lives.

Some plan!

Ironically, the first step that traders take, is to swamp themselves in so much detail that the very freedom their mind requires to succeed is taken away.

It is a funny old life really.... old habits die hard.

regards
f9

Posted by dtrader98 on 04-30-09 06:48 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

That is where the problem lies for most traders .... FREEDOM

Often dreamed of and never experienced.

And so they set off chasing a dream that they cannot define, the plan being that the never ending in-flow of profits will take care of everything that is intolerable in their lives.

Some plan!

Ironically, the first step that traders take, is to swamp themselves in so much detail that the very freedom their mind requires to succeed is taken away.

It is a funny old life really.... old habits die hard.

regards
f9

Morpheus?
"I know what you're trying to do..." f9.

Your insights are quite sage .

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 06:54 PM:

She'd make a great Hershey trader!!!

Alleged 'Craigslist killer' Philip Markoff's fiancée stands by betrothed
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...ill_my_guy.html

Posted by Rabbitone on 04-30-09 07:05 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

That is where the problem lies for most traders .... FREEDOM

Often dreamed of and never experienced.

And so they set off chasing a dream that they cannot define, the plan being that the never ending in-flow of profits will take care of everything that is intolerable in their lives.

Some plan!

Ironically, the first step that traders take, is to swamp themselves in so much detail that the very freedom their mind requires to succeed is taken away.

It is a funny old life really.... old habits die hard.

regards
f9

F9 – You made an excellent point about the freedom we have as traders.

Given all the freedom of choice we have as a new trader puts a large weight on our backs. We become very conscious that by trading we are tackling and area that many have failed in. In this process we do not allow ourselves to be prepared for the possibility that we may fail not just once but many times before we will succeed. So when failure inevitability does come we are left unstable and seek expert knowledge through ET threads, authors or software products.

Many ET cults target traders who are at an unstable point in their trading lives. We have all had difficult periods, such as transitioning to new job, but trading maximizes our instability because we have no one to blame but ourselves when we fail in trading. When this happens are normal defenses are down and we are susceptible to deception and the persuasive techniques of mind control from ET cults.

Regards

RabbitOne

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by R. Raskolnikov on 04-30-09 07:06 PM:

Its called "going to bed". You see, some of us can walk away from ET when its time for bed, others (you) stay up late chasing Jack Hersh around the internet

Quote from Trader666:

r.ratshit has run away yet again...

Posted by fearless9 on 04-30-09 08:07 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

......................................... because we have no one to blame but ourselves when we fail in trading.

Regards

RabbitOne

Life is soooooooooooo unfair

regards
f9

Posted by Trader666 on 04-30-09 08:47 PM:

But you can't walk away from your past and your naive ingratiation of a faux guru. So how did Jack's "teachings" work out for you?

Swordless (R. Raskolnikov) has diligently studied Jack's "teachings" and his progression through the four stages of being a Hershey trader has been noteworthy. His Stage 1 behavior has been extreme -- especially his ingratiation -- even for a koolaid drinker. And since Swordless also suffers from a more severe reality deficit disorder than the average cultist, he is still shifting back and forth between Stages 3 & 4.

Stage 1 -- Eagerness and Ingratiation

licking my chops as i only get better yes, agree jack and spyder are great, jack is a little tough to follow but his teachings, once untangled, are very helpful!
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...44&#post1563544

Stage 2 -- Delusion and Defensiveness

Im sure you probably didnt know this but actually on the very first page of the "Spydertraders Jack Hersheys Futures" thread there are links to many pieces of info for people to do their due dilligence first, ranging from the terminology to concepts to just basic background info. Anyone who read that stuff and continued on would never been seen as following a guru blindly. And it cleary states that one should read all the associated links before moving on.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...11&#post1862711

Stage 3 -- Denial

I've repeatedly told you I don't trade SCT only that I asked some questions over a year and a half ago
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...39&#post2082939

Stage 4 -- Acceptance

Not once have I ever spoken to Jack Hershey and for all I know he's a shitty trader like you all say.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...04&#post1753104

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

Its called "going to bed". You see, some of us can walk away from ET when its time for bed...

Posted by T2GR8T on 04-30-09 10:15 PM:

Quote from R. Raskolnikov:

Its called "going to bed". You see, some of us can walk away from ET when its time for bed

Certainly not you if there is a Hershey thread

Posted by jack hershey on 05-01-09 12:11 AM:

Quote from Trader666:

What happened to the second buy arrow, Jack?

You tell us its of your making. My chart is on the right.

In most forms of hold reversal trading, no one does two consecutive trades in the same direction. Were you scaling up or something? You tell us. I was in hold.

Also, what are those blank spots above the purple arrows and below the green arrows?

I take an automatically annotated chart to paint and I erase the name (kind of) trade. In ATS outputs to execution platforms, a log also is kept and that descriptive data stuff I erased goes in the log as well.

Posting a chart has little exposure to reverse engineering as we all know.

Here is another point on the chart that Pointone enquired about. I could do a similar one for your chart and it would show how the reversal you show on an LTL is not traded on this Cash Cow Basic ATS since it just trades channels and doesn't double down on LTL's. It is identical to the location you posted for a short channel.

Edit: for those who trade traverses; both channel are showing a three bar Hershey Hinge (HH); you will remember the trade id taken at point 3 of the last bar of the hinge (google the presentation from the past)

Posted by shark flu on 05-01-09 12:22 AM:

Quote from jack hershey:

[/img]

Jack Hershey I don't know if you realize this, you probably don't since you are insane

but this thread is about you my boy

Posted by Rabbitone on 05-01-09 01:18 AM:

I never saw Jack Hershey’s trades
I hope I never see one,
But I can tell you, anyhow,
I rather see than trade one.

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by T2GR8T on 05-01-09 01:19 AM:

Hey Jack don't play the C card when challenged to a trading contest and then keep posting your drivel here

Shit or get off the pot

Posted by nkhoi on 05-01-09 12:50 PM:

while we are dwelling on the finer point of a cult, let's check back on some JH traders results

Quote from Monkman:

[]For next month's trading I am going to raise the amount I put into each stream. I started with 5k per stream, then 10k half way through, and now I am up to 20k.

New breakdown as follows:

20k per position, 4 position max []

Quote from RoughTrader:

[]Thursday, 04/30/2009
Security: ESM9
Session PNL: $999.20 USD
To-Date PNL: $10,019.44 USD
Account Balance: $95,396.58 USD []

Posted by jjf on 05-01-09 01:21 PM:

Quote from jonnyy40:

This board is beyond a joke.Everybody should leave.

Dont let the door hit you on the way out

Posted by jonnyy40 on 05-01-09 01:52 PM:

(There's no door) All saps are welcome.

Posted by T2GR8T on 05-01-09 02:00 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

while we are dwelling on the finer point of a cult, let's check back on some JH traders results

A: Where's the proof?

B: Why can't you make a profit?

Posted by fearless9 on 05-01-09 02:00 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

while we are dwelling on the finer point of a cult, let's check back on some JH traders results

What are you doing nkhoi.

Golly, JH is hardly out of bed let alone completed his daily rituals and already he is flavour of the moment.

You are turning JH into a folk hero.

Stories will be told and re-told to children on the knees of old men in the decades to come.
Ballads will be written and sung.
JH's birth cottage will become a national shrine and maybe his image will adorn the first billion dollar note.

We are watching history in the making.
Viva ET

regards
f9

Posted by jonnyy40 on 05-01-09 02:09 PM:

Yes.In any sensible scenario,'moderators' would be required not to post.They would also have to give a reason for any deletion.(So that Cult victim 'moderators' can't take over a board).This is why this board is a joke.A Cultist and an owner that needs hits for revenue.Never mind.See you elsewhere.Ciao

Posted by Trader666 on 05-01-09 02:15 PM:

Good idea nkhoi.. let's check. Based on the numbers Jack claims (over 10,000 followers in 1990, 25 exchanges, etc.) where's the media coverage? The Hershey foundations? The Hershey hospitals and charities?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...035#post2408035

Quote from nkhoi:

while we are dwelling on the finer point of a cult, let's check back on some JH traders results

Posted by nkhoi on 05-01-09 02:48 PM:

Quote from fearless9:

What are you doing nkhoi.

.....

We are watching history in the making.
Viva ET

regards
f9

fearless, musing is fine but the only thing really counts ever is how much money can you put in your pocket.

Posted by fearless9 on 05-01-09 03:17 PM:

Quote from nkhoi:

fearless, musing is fine but the only thing really counts ever is how much money can you put in your pocket.

Well, I prefer to multi-task ... have fun and make money.

In fact what use is money if it destroys our capacity to enjoy life.
It should enhance it, I feel.

regards
f9

Posted by Rabbitone on 05-01-09 04:06 PM:

When I opened this tread on mind control it was to illustrate some of the mind control techniques that I have seen used in private life and over many sites on the internet for many years. In recent years I have witnessed these same techniques applied to traders on ET.

As part of this thread I did attempt to name ET individuals but tried to stick to the topics of mind control. However, some ETs began to mention JH. That is when I was flamed personally by JH and told what a @%$# I was for starting this thread about him. I was amused by this since I was mainly railing against the practices and not the persons.

Many traders have since PMed me telling of some of the mind control that they felt had been done on them in ET threads. Many of these were about JH. But there were just as many about others. There were enough replies to, I believe, make a supporting case that indeed mind control is firmly entrenched in ET’s forums

__________________
Rabbit

Posted by fearless9 on 05-01-09 04:29 PM:

Quote from Rabbitone:

Many traders have since PMed me telling of some of the mind control that they felt had been done on them in ET threads. Many of these were about JH.

My greatest defense against JH is the fact that I simply cannot understand him.
He could be discussing option trading on the dark side of the moon for all I know.

Come to think of it, I cannot understand a lot of "trading" threads here on ET, so JH is not without the company of his peers in my book.

regards
f9

Posted by Trader666 on 05-01-09 04:43 PM:

Notice how nkhoi avoided answering this? How convenient...

Quote from Trader666:

Good idea nkhoi.. let's check. Based on the numbers Jack claims (over 10,000 followers in 1990, 25 exchanges, etc.) where's the media coverage? The Hershey foundations? The Hershey hospitals and charities?
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...035#post2408035

Posted by T2GR8T on 05-02-09 12:44 AM:

Quote from Trader666:

Notice how nkhoi avoided answering this? How convenient...

He can't even answer a direct question about his own profitability after 6 years studying under Jack and Spyder

Posted by MandelbrotSet on 05-02-09 01:19 AM:

Quote from fearless9:

Come to think of it, I cannot understand a lot of "trading" threads here on ET, so JH is not without the company of his peers in my book.

regards
f9

Quote from T2GR8T:

He [nkhoi] can't even answer a direct question about his own profitability after 6 years studying under Jack and Spyder

Thanks for your contributions guys.

You've brought ET to an all-time high of comedic humor, while the site simultaneously is reaching new multi-year lows in terms of its trading content.

The balance is simply amazing.

__________________
...

Posted by jonnyy40 on 05-03-09 09:38 AM:

Americans will be singing about everything and anything shortly - just to keep your minds off your situation.Your currency is about to collapse.We'll see how many hits this place gets then.

Posted by lilduckling on 05-07-09 08:14 PM:

amazing..... the flow of kool-aid never stops.....

Posted by nkhoi on 05-07-09 08:56 PM:

12-30-06 01:54 AM

As promised, I have split off the Futures trading Discussion into its own Thread

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&threadid=83604

Posted by jonnyy40 on 05-08-09 10:39 AM:

Wow.Well it's nice to see that the last pretence of impartial 'moderation' has been discarded right out in the open.Even the most stupid of people can't now fail to draw the proper conclusion.

Posted by T2GR8T on 05-08-09 11:36 AM:

Quote from jonnyy40:

Wow.Well it's nice to see that the last pretence of impartial 'moderation' has been discarded right out in the open.Even the most stupid of people can't now fail to draw the proper conclusion.

Yes it's even worse than you think, nkhoi is the mod responsible for bringing Hershey back to ET after he was banned for life from this site for disrupting and taking over threads

Posted by shopster on 01-27-12 10:11 AM:

Quote from GCSICLRBC:

Talk about PROLIX.

Jack,

Even if you had something genuine to offer the newbies on ET, your convoluted method of communicating negates any real benefit.

You just wrote what...500 words?

I'm a professional trader who visits this site during downtime.

I COULDN'T GRASP A SINGLE, SALIENT POINT from all your jibberish!

A (possibly simulated) 40-lot trade? Great. What about the other (losing) trades?

Just face it -- NOBODY LIKES YOU ON ET.

You're socially inept & should probably just get another hobby.

If you were any good at trading you'd be a CTA here in Chicago or NYC.

I think you're a real toad.

GL to anybody foolish enough to "follow you."

--Harold

got a negative spread, you can't sell high.....here come the suits.

i luv this stuff..........

rope pissing et al.

s

__________________
the world is so certain yet i walk on thin ice.

Posted by bwolinsky on 01-27-12 10:39 PM:

Quote from shopster:

got a negative spread, you can't sell high.....here come the suits.

i luv this stuff..........

rope pissing et al.

s

Try to look at timestamps before you revive 3 year old threads.

This is almost ancient.

__________________
HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

Bud Fox

Wall Street

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:50 PM.