When the friend I was training for NQ futures (PA stuff) went live everything was fine until he hit a few crazy days which almost wiped out his account, he over traded, revenge traded, death by a thousand cuts (wipsaw), etc... Well it was back to sim trading for 3 months straight. Now he is back trading live for the past 2 months, taking profits out and so far the bad habits have stayed under control, he has some good momentum going on now. S4L
@Handle123 , I traded seriously between 2005 until about fall of 2008, (2007 and 2008 lived abroad trading full time) and that was when the financial crisis nailed me in 2008 and at the same time was on substantial doses of prednisone for an undiagnosed skin infection (having no real clue what that drug was doing to my mental state). Best month in that time period was about $38,000... Worst month I lost around $15,000. However, once on the drugs , I just bleed $$ every month, until I shut myself down blaming it on the markets. Since that time, I haven't done anything real serious. Serious being defined as trading an account size you could make a monthly living off. Your thoughts?
Took several hours to think about the day, and only now getting online and reading this. First, let me say thank you for the offer of help. I suppose I just don't know how to "let those thoughts go". And you are bang on with this..."In the process you are getting attached to both those "longings", and that in turn causes emotional turmoil." Yes, I will try your steps tomorrow, and I will step into the market... And follow this plan exactly. Again, much thanks,
Yukoner: Since you are interested, here is an overview of the 3-week plan, and my expectations for the first week: In the first week, you are going to work on baseline discipline using the 4 step approach (and the 2 notes). Here you are allowed to make all the trading errors based on emotions [trading based on Pnl, trading based on fear, look at price and thinking something will happen and trading based on that, etc]. But these mistakes are only allowed in Step 1 when you close the trade. The error of entering a trade based on emotion (e.g. revenge trade) is allowed in Step 1 as long as you also follow Note 1. The primary intention of this week is to establish the fact that you do have the discipline to follow a plan. During this week, I do not care what your PnL is, or how many trades you take or how many psychological errors in trading you make. I don't even want to know your emotional states/thoughts during trading. All I care about is for you to exactly follow the Steps to the T. The Steps are also designed to instill a certain trait in you, which I will disclose after 3 weeks. So, please report back, every day, if you followed the Steps to the T. Since you are allowed to make all the emotional trading mistakes, I expect you to be able to follow the Steps without any problem. However, if you are unable to follow these Steps to the T, then we have to stop, for you do not posses the baseline mental discipline to take the next step; I cannot help you further. In the second week, assuming that you have the baseline discipline, we will introduce two more steps in your process, including a basic awareness step. Here again you will be allowed to make all the trading mistakes based on emotion, but you will start to learn how to quickly recognize your emotions. In the third week, we will tighten up and add some tools to deal with your recognized emotions. After the three weeks, you will have all the tools and tactics to get to where you want to get to w.r.t to your mental preparedness. However, you will have to practice to make them perfect. I will also provide you with a guide to move beyond -- when to remove Step 3, and one of the Steps that will be introduced in Week 2. I will also recommend some sources that will help you enhance your newly gained knowledge. I can type all this lofty goals and sound enchanting, but if you don't commit yourself and follow the Steps, you will not succeed. Lets get started. All the best. Regards, Monoid.
There are many education studies, research and solutions involving "learning" and "education" and "psychology" concerning doing such on your own (all by yourself), controlled online class and face to face (in person) classroom...involving different education levels and professions. You're really at a disadvantage when you have serious discipline problems and you're trading all by yourself while attempting to follow your "process" or the process of others outside of a controlled group. I've been there...same discipline trading problems. I had a good trading plan and then I would make self-help rules, check the box process, follow the steps 1 - 5...that I thought would "encourage" me to follow my trading plan. It just didn't work until I joined a small trading group something I was never open minded too and had all kind'uv excuses why I shouldn't try it at least once. Hopefully, one day, you'll realize you just needed to trade in person with others that don't have discipline problems or trade with someone that's in the position as the control or moderator (in person) of your trading plan to ensure you stick with it or don't make changes to it every time you hit a bump in the rode...just like professional traders have until you develop the proper behavior process that may require a different trading environment so that you can succeed consistently. P.S. My trading behavior and psychology changed dramatically within a few months of joining the trading group...I quickly realized my prep, behavior, trading environment and many other things I thought would help me succeed at home as a retail trader...was just inappropriate for a trader with discipline problems. Anyways, I stayed with the group for a few years until I felt I had instilled the proper trading behaviors to succeed on my own. I won't bother you anymore because you do have a solution if trading on your own or OPM is your goal. Good luck.
@wrbtrader: Misquoted me did we? I think when you edited the content, you unknowingly attributed a statement made by Yukoner to me. I complete understand where you are coming from. However, I do think we need more data on Yukoner before I arrive at a similar conclusion to that of yours (not necessarily a trading group, but someone who can in-person help Yukoner with his mental framework. I learned my mind stuff from someone who does not even know what trading is and lives in a forest!) So, what is this data on Yukoner that I am talking about? The way to look at it is by looking at the phrase you used "serious discipline problems " as the starting point. When you talk about discipline problems, in my opinion, it is too general (way too broad). We need to break it down into classes: (a) baseline discipline: the ability to follow a plan; and, (b) emotional discipline: The ability to choose one's actions irrespective of one's emotional state. I still don't know if Yukoner has the baseline discipline; hence, the week 1 workout. Lets assume that he has the baseline discipline. Then, he needs to work on this emotional discipline. Every one, be it a failed trader or a successful trader knows what to do: let go of the thoughts that stir-up those emotions and get back to trading. It is as simple as that, and there is no other way. This is the only way. You are either doing it knowingly or unknowingly. This is not rocket science. However, unlike rocket science where a body of knowledge has be developed to teach the how-to, no such body of knowledge has been developed to address the how-to of achieving trader's mindset in trading. It is one thing to say "build a rocket", and other thing to know how to build a rocket. Similarly, saying "let go of the thoughts that stir-up those emotions" is one thing, but knowing how to do it is another thing -- this is precisely Yukoner's problem. You said you tried self-help and failed. I can only conclude that it is because at that time you did not know the how-to. It is like: "a blind leading a blind, and both will fall into the ditch". By joining a trading group, you were able to learn the how-to of emotional discipline from those how knew. Now, there are two approaches one can follow when learning the how-to of emotional discipline: (a) one is brute force: Write one's thoughts in a journal, and keep working at it till one finds a path to achieve "letting go ....". 'Find a path' because even when we write our thoughts that produce emotions in a journal, we don't know how to move from there to letting go of those thoughts. So, it is by trial and error that one works. This is the path majority of successful traders tread. This is a harsh path to follow. (b) There is a softer path one can tread, one based on learning the how-to. This path is not something new, but has been neglected by many traders. A softer path does not mean an easier path. One has to put in the effort to reap the benefits, but at least they will know the how-to. Approach (b) is my intended direction for Yukoner. I have never done this before, and I am not a professional psychologist. But I did sleep in a holiday inn express! No, jokes apart, I have the personal experience, extensive knowledge of the method I am going to direct Yukoner towards, and have performed exhaustive analysis of- and research on- the said method, which I did to understand why it worked the way it did in me. There can be no better substitute for this knowledge. This is not to say Yukoner will succeed. Only time will tell. It is just 3 weeks. Why not wait and see how Yukoner does? Regards, Monoid.
I took on 200 pounds five years ago and from steroids and became bigger A-hole than I am now, so "they" say, so steroids makes you dominate when you might not be and will change who you are. I took myself off of steroids and take India spice called Tumeric for inflammation, I have a disease called Sarcoidsis. I have taken off 120 pounds in two years. So you know partially why you did poorly, I am thinking your Trading Plan was not well developed to handle that Price Action and inexperience didn't allow you to take advantage to run away markets. Experience allows you to adapt. I would really suggest doing this combine another time till you find answers to your trading plan as you either don't believe in it, I do know you lose too often, perhaps it is geared to making most money instead of not losing, took me forever to understand that different personalities require different methods, and when you trade OPM, best to trade less but have much lower losing percentages, people don't want heart attacks cause wild equity curves. You have to be honest with yourself on what kind of trader are you, you show best when you trade less and on good days it is coming from deep hole. Right now you don't have confidence so you might be better to trade on your own till you build up confidence. Keep journal going as way to get feedback. I am going to disagree with most suggestions, Yukoner has showed in past of good profitable months, don't think he needs a room to be able to trade-he knows how to pull the trigger and now he usually knows when to quit, he is learning better than most, one can't trade another traders part of Trading plan cause unless you develop it alone, you won't believe in it. I have always tailored my rules into their beliefs otherwise you lose them. Yukoner has to learn as he is doing but I think the combine is holding him back as added stress when he hasn't come back through his own trading. He is like hauling huge trailer with a bicycle.