Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:27:12 PM)
Today we're pleased to welcome Mark Oryhon of Velocity Futures to the Elite Trader Chat Room.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:27:28 PM)
Mark Oryhon is V.P. of Proprietary Trading at Velocity Futures, as well as Principle and Partner. Prior to Velocity, Mark was a futures and options trader at Agave Investments, a private investment firm. In 2000 Mark was the winner of the Worth Investment Challenge. He has been trading futures and options for 6 years both for his personal account and at the firms he has been with.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:28:06 PM)
While Mark is indeed a trader himself, today we are going to focus on one of his main roles as the V.P. of Proprietary Trading, and that is as taskmaster.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:28:15 PM)
He requires all of his prop traders to keep detailed trading logs that he then reviews with them on a regular basis. So we're going to go over what sees most often and some of the solutions to changing these patterns.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:28:31 PM)
And of course we'll take your questions after the presentation!

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:28:37 PM)
Mark, welcome. Thanks for joining us today.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:28:53 PM)
Thanks for having me.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:28:59 PM)
You bet.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:29:00 PM)
In deciding what would be the most beneficial topic for me to discuss with Elite Trader members I asked my prop. traders what they think has helped them out the most.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:29:21 PM)
The response that I received most frequently from them was the way I make them analyze their trades everyday.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:29:42 PM)
So I thought that this is what I would talk about today.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:30:05 PM)
I’m a firm believer that trading is more about discipline and control than it is about being a great market technician who knows all the indicators.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:30:31 PM)
I try to instill disciple in my traders by making them log every trade they make during the day. And making them plot their trades on a one minute chart, after the trading day is done.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:30:59 PM)
They are required (and I do the same) to log the time they get into a trade, the time they get out, their reason for getting into the trade, and their P/L for the trade.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:31:34 PM)
The reason for this is that I believe if you have to write down a reason for being in a trade you are less likely to take trades out of boredom or for emotional reasons,

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:31:54 PM)
also by having to log all this information it helps prevent overtrading.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:32:57 PM)
At the end of the day my traders are required to analyze their trades and give me their daily stat sheet.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:33:14 PM)
On this sheet I see each traders # of winner and # of losers, biggest winner and biggest loser, average time in winners and average time in losers, time in biggest winner and time in biggest loser.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:33:41 PM)
Ideally the average winner should be larger then the average loser and the biggest winner should always be bigger then the biggest loser.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:34:02 PM)
The time in the biggest winner should be longer then the time in the biggest loser.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:34:43 PM)
The average time in winners should be longer then the average time in loser.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:34:53 PM)
My traders avergae about 56% winning trades and 44% losing trades (scratches don’t count) a day.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:35:14 PM)
My traders know what I look for in them: I don’t want them holding onto or sitting in losers or getting emotional while trading.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:35:48 PM)
I’m more concerned about limiting their downside than milking every winner. Their winning trades take care of themselves.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:36:22 PM)
The stats make it black and white as to how well they are doing that and where they (and I) need improvement, What aspect of trading discipline is lacking.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:36:47 PM)
With the charts I make them give to me each day I try to identify if they have any destructive tendencies.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:37:05 PM)
Do losses snow ball one after another?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:37:17 PM)
Do they churn inside of a trading range?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:37:35 PM)
Do they get caught on trend days?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:37:49 PM)
Is their a particular time of day that they lose money?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:38:09 PM)
These are the things I look at and have them look out for when they are plotting their trades.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:38:32 PM)
So where does this conviction on logging trades come from?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:39:01 PM)
Well, I started logging all my trades and plotting them after the close 4 years ago in an attempt to control my emotions while trading.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:39:22 PM)
I wanted a "visual" of what the heck I was doing wrong.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:39:48 PM)
I can’t begin to tell you how much this helped me.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:40:09 PM)
It may seem a bit tedious and it does take some time, but you'll be amazed at what you will learn about your trading if you try it for a month.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:40:41 PM)
At first all my prop guys complained about having to plot and log their trades,

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:41:07 PM)
but they have all told me it was worth it.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:42:00 PM)
So, as we are on the topic of discipline and control while trading lets go over some trading traps you may fall into from time to time that -if you eliminate- will add $$$$ to you bottom line.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:42:31 PM)
These are the four most common foibles that I see:

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:43:00 PM)
The first is what I call "Going for the next round number".

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:43:18 PM)
Lets say there is 30 minutes left in the day and I’m up $975,

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:43:47 PM)
there may not be any trades I have any conviction on but I’m trading because I want to see $1000 on my screen.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:44:13 PM)
What would normally end up happening is I end up losing on the next few trades,

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:44:35 PM)
get mad and end up giving back half of my day for no reason.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:44:53 PM)
It is a total loss of discipline.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:45:25 PM)
If I find myself saying it would be nice to get up $1000, I will now just turn off my screens.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:46:24 PM)
It took me a long time and cost a lot of money to get to this point, but it really is that simple and being able to do that has made a big difference.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:46:37 PM)
Mark?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:46:44 PM)
yep

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:47:00 PM)
Just curious... how long did it take you to work on that one issue... stopping when you're up?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:47:54 PM)
after i realized what i was doing i cut back on it right away, but then it would still creep up from time to time

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:48:16 PM)
It's certainly a common foible.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:48:34 PM)
Ok, on to number 2?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:48:55 PM)
it took close to a year i would say before i rid my self of this habit

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:49:18 PM)
i'll get on to #2 in a sec

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:49:27 PM)
Another thing that I found worked well with some of my prop guys is changing the P/L from dollars to ticks.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:49:51 PM)
Since we trade the mini sp. mini naz, mini dow, and eurex products, changing the p/l to ticks will give you a good idea of where you stand, but you will not know the exact $ value since each product traded has a diffrent tick value.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:50:14 PM)
Some of my guys really like that

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:50:30 PM)
O.K. on to #2

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:50:41 PM)
Trading more size when you are down

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:50:57 PM)
Don’t do it!

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:51:09 PM)
Why would you want to take more risk when you don’t have your market mojo going?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:51:32 PM)
This is the Number 1 way for my prop. guys to get me upset.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:52:10 PM)
If I find my traders picking up this habit, I cut down the size they can trade for the next few days and will keep cutting it down if they continue to do it while on "probation".

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:52:31 PM)
I would recommend you do the same with your trading if you find you demonstrate this habit,

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:53:25 PM)
I won't lie its hard to be that disciplined.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:53:44 PM)
I have control over my traders, you are the ony person in control your trading.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:55:44 PM)
Mark, do you have any suggestions on what might work if we don't have someone like you clamping down on buying power?

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:56:31 PM)
What seems to work for your traders who don't need you to limit them?

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 4:56:38 PM)
They back off on their own?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:56:39 PM)
this might sound crazy but i actually did this

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:57:52 PM)
i would write it down durring the day every ten minutes if i was down a decent ammount

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:58:04 PM)
what i woulg write is

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:58:49 PM)
trading size when you down cost you money and i would put the date and p/l pf the last day i did that

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:59:09 PM)
i would writ ethis though out the day

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:59:18 PM)
eventually it sunk in

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 4:59:30 PM)
sounds crazy but it worked

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:00:35 PM)
The third point is directed at new traders

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:00:52 PM)
ome in with a plan

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:00:55 PM)
come

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:01:26 PM)
There are thousands of traders out there who are prepared to trade their plan each day

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:01:48 PM)
If you’re not prepared, what makes you think you can beat them?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:02:01 PM)
Know what news is expected out every day

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:02:26 PM)
Nothing is worst then getting blindsided by something that you could’ve prevented.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:02:42 PM)
In short, be prepared. If you are not - don’t trade.

AngryBull (Aug 14, 2003 5:03:09 PM)
So all your traders have tradingplans?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:04:55 PM)
es, they are required to email me their "plans" what support and resistance levels they are watching

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:05:01 PM)
yes

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:05:12 PM)
what sector sthey think will be tells

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:05:41 PM)
or if they are going to be wacthing the dollar or bonds...why

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:05:47 PM)
and so on

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:06:25 PM)
i just want to make sure they have done their home work

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:06:58 PM)
The final point I want to make is if you get mad during the trading day, know that you are not in control and take a break.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:07:25 PM)
If I start to get upset I get up and take a walk, or go drink a coke or something.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:08:30 PM)
I konw if i mad when i start swearing, or think #$%& this, its pretty obvious

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:09:27 PM)
It not hard to tell when you are mad its hard you you to walk away, which is the best thing to do

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:10:02 PM)
Trading when you are mad is very dangerous, it is the worst thing you can do.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:10:25 PM)
Trust me, this can destroy you.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:10:37 PM)
All rational judgment goes out the window and your trading becomes a personal grudge match against the market - which doesn’t care.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:11:08 PM)
I've seen numerous people blow up doing this

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:11:18 PM)
I’ve got myself in some real trouble doing this before and was lucky enough to get bailed out a couple times.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:12:02 PM)
I’ve been on the brink of disaster, and I don’t ever want to feel that way again so if I’m getting angry I just get up and walk away. Please do the same.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:12:36 PM)
sorry for the typos

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:12:43 PM)
Not at all!

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:12:51 PM)
Mark, thanks for going over in such detail about what we should avoid.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:13:05 PM)
Before we move on to the Q&A...

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:13:15 PM)
And we do have questions for you...

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:13:17 PM)
I hope you all found this beneficial.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:13:37 PM)
Will you tell us a little bit about Velocity Futures, and what you offer?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:13:50 PM)
Each and every CME trader at Velocity Futures will get two logins on two different servers in the event of a catastrophic failure on your primary server.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:14:17 PM)
If your primary server fails you will still be logged in to your backup and can switch with two clicks.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:14:38 PM)
Velocity seeks to attempt to eliminate any single point of failure in your trading platform.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:15:10 PM)
Good technical redundancy. Check.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:15:25 PM)
Velocity has the lowest rate for Trading Technologies X-Trader platform

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:16:00 PM)
We also have really low commission, and great support

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:16:16 PM)
Velocity has connections to Eurex, the CBOT and LIFFE, in addition to the CME.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:16:33 PM)
Commission rebates are done on the first trading day of the next month.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:16:50 PM)
Also, Velocity Futures has a 24 hour order desk.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:17:06 PM)
You have an introductory offer for Elite Trader members, don't you?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:17:13 PM)
Yep

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:17:31 PM)
Also, Velocity Futures has a 24 hour order desk.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:17:35 PM)
opps

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:18:07 PM)
If any Elite Trader members are interested in giving Velocity a try we will give you your fisrt month of trading eminis products at $2.82 a roung turn (all fees included).

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:18:23 PM)
If you are interested in tradeing other products we have intro. rates for Elite Trader members on the as well.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:18:39 PM)
them as well

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:18:48 PM)
This offer is only for elite trader members.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:18:56 PM)
How do they get it?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:18:59 PM)
If you would like more information email me at mark@velocityfutures.com and I will have an account rep. get in touch with you and make sure they know you get the elite trader rate.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:19:10 PM)
Ok, then. ::smiles::

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:19:36 PM)
Velocity Futures is a FCM registered with the NFA and the CFTC

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:20:05 PM)
Great, Mark.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:20:26 PM)
Ok, so... now we've got some questions.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:22:15 PM)
We've got a few questions on cost, so let's start there.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:22:22 PM)
o.k.

cglander (Aug 14, 2003 5:22:24 PM)
what is rate for TT?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:22:41 PM)
TT is $500 a month

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:23:00 PM)
Is that your basic platform?

blb078 (Aug 14, 2003 5:23:13 PM)
what is the platform fee

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:23:49 PM)
TT is the onyt platform we offer

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:24:02 PM)
it the best for active traders

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:24:10 PM)
TT = Trading Technologies X-Trader Platform

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:24:17 PM)
we've traded on all the platforms and find it to be the most reliable

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:24:35 PM)
by far

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:24:56 PM)
Ok, we've got lots of questions on your presentation.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:25:04 PM)
sure

lingo480 (Aug 14, 2003 5:25:13 PM)
Can you go over the step-by-step process of plotting trades on a chart?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:26:07 PM)
i have my traders print out a one minute chart of the day that is two pages long printed in the landscape format

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:27:40 PM)
them from the log sheet they plot there buy with a yellow highliter dot and they sells with buy dot

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:27:58 PM)
on the bars at the prices they occurred

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:28:10 PM)
blue dot

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:28:23 PM)
i meant above

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:28:50 PM)
Yellow Buy, blue sell?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:28:51 PM)
if the trade is a winner they connect the dots with a green ink pen line

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:29:22 PM)
if it is a loser with a red ink line

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:29:57 PM)
yes yellow buy, blue sell, the color doesn't matter as long as you know what it means

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:31:18 PM)
some of the charts from my traders look crazy, but you get used to the way they look

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:32:18 PM)
So what do you see when you look at those lines?

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:33:41 PM)
What has jumped out at you at the past?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:34:03 PM)
winners and losers, is someone calling tops or bottoms, long red lines are obvious problems, is some getting into trades late

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:34:41 PM)
fighting the trend?

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:34:44 PM)
Thanks, Mark.

PuffyGums (Aug 14, 2003 5:34:53 PM)
When I enter a position, it always seems too early (after the fact) although at the time I thought I waited long enough. How do you prevent this?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:36:00 PM)
use mulitiple time frames, and i look at the NYSE TICKS alot on a one minute time frame

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:36:49 PM)
also i like lhave real time BKX and SOX index i created that give me a heads up on the bars vharts

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:37:42 PM)
they will turn up 10 -15 seconds befor the bars print based on the way the exchanges diseminat edata

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:37:59 PM)
does that help at all

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:38:07 PM)
?

PuffyGums (Aug 14, 2003 5:38:22 PM)
yes. thanks

Derbatim (Aug 14, 2003 5:38:40 PM)
Are you using any special templates for trade records... so that it would be possible statisticaly evaluate traders activity (errors/mistrades)??

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:39:39 PM)
just basic excel spread sheet, make my traders do the grunt work on the stats.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:40:22 PM)
So no in-depth study overlapping different traders to give us the holy grail of trading?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:41:16 PM)
i could tell you but then i would have to kill you

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:41:19 PM)
Rats.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:41:24 PM)
just kidding

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:41:25 PM)
::laughs::

cglander (Aug 14, 2003 5:41:43 PM)
Do you ever force your traders back to papertrading? if things are not working for them, what course of action do you take - outside of firing them :)

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:42:35 PM)
don't like to put them back on the simulator, will cut them down to ones lots

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:42:45 PM)
the sim takes emotions out of the game

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:43:21 PM)
You talked about having a plan, Mark. Do you help your traders establish a plan? Do you do this only with your prop traders? Or is this something you also offer your retail clients as well?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:46:05 PM)
most of my traders have a trading background, I try to get them to see the big picture and the things i look at, what they do with that info is up to them, the prop, group provides diversification. I don't want all my traders going the same way I want them doing differnet things, with tight risk controls and dicpline

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:46:53 PM)
don't offer any thing to retail, but they can always email me or call me woth ?'s

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:47:04 PM)
Great.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:47:13 PM)
We've got some more general questions...

Backwardation (Aug 14, 2003 5:47:56 PM)
Have you ever had your traders plot the trades they did NOT take that fit there trading plans and what would you suggest for people who have trouble pulling the trigger after a few losses even if those losses conform to one's trading plan?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:50:30 PM)
no don't plot what would've happened trades, the trading plans are more of what to watch, and various scenarios that may play out, they are meant to help my traders react to whats happening not predict

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:50:54 PM)
go with the flow if the biasis right but don't trade their bias

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:51:13 PM)
it the everything doesn't line up

blb078 (Aug 14, 2003 5:51:28 PM)
What would you say the minimum a new person trading the eminis should start with? Any tips/advice for people just starting out?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:51:42 PM)
as for pulling the trigger, you just have to get in there and make the trades

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:52:01 PM)
the more trades you make the more comfortable you will be

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:52:39 PM)
i find that if you feel you are prepared for the day you will execute with greater ease

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:55:53 PM)
if you are just starting out, i would suggest that you watch the market everyday from open to close, watch the TICK learn its patterns, understand the concept of higher highs and lower lows, pay attention to c, ibm, msft, and the sox index and the bkx index

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:56:14 PM)
pay attention to how the market reacts to news

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:56:43 PM)
read market wizards

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 5:56:56 PM)
A good book, for sure.

AngryBull (Aug 14, 2003 5:56:59 PM)
You must have proptraders that fails. What abilities do they miss?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:57:06 PM)
good for inspiration

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:57:58 PM)
and a lot of good gerneral points

AngryBull (Aug 14, 2003 5:59:16 PM)
And what's the difference between your toptraders and your averagetraders?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:59:44 PM)
alot fail

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 5:59:54 PM)
fale

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:00:27 PM)
they try to do there own thing, they hold losers to long

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:00:49 PM)
don't pull the trigger quick enough

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:00:57 PM)
over trade

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:01:25 PM)
some just don't like doing the work i make them do and i show them to the door

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:01:43 PM)
attitude matters alot, you can not be a know it all

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:02:22 PM)
it really all comes down to discipline and control

PuffyGums (Aug 14, 2003 6:02:46 PM)
Describe the trader tipping point as he moves from breakeven to a consistent winner. What is he learning, doing at that point?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:03:08 PM)
he will scratch trades he is not sure about

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:03:17 PM)
not wait for it to turn into a loser

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:03:25 PM)
very very importent

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:03:59 PM)
if it doens't work out right away, don't wait for iyt to go against you

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:04:00 PM)
Waiting for it to turn into a looser. Oy. I did that this week.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:04:16 PM)
the best rades work out right away

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:04:22 PM)
best trades

Guest (Aug 14, 2003 6:04:51 PM)
You talked about your safeguards around your trading pladform...How are you bearing up in light of the blackout in the NE?

cglander (Aug 14, 2003 6:05:03 PM)
what do you look for for a Prop trader?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:05:15 PM)
alot of trader don't like to scratch trades, i thinkthey have the mind set it has to be a winner or a loser

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:05:39 PM)
dedication, someone willing to do the work

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:06:09 PM)
So when you say a scratch trade, you're not talking about a trade you don't take, but one you take and essentially get out even, correct?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:06:20 PM)
yep

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:06:42 PM)
Interesting.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:07:22 PM)
I've recently taken a $2-$3 total loss on trades, and do indeed look at is as an improvement to losing $30 or $40!

facultus (Aug 14, 2003 6:07:31 PM)
Do you have your traders create a plan and if so what do you look for in them or require?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:09:38 PM)
i want to know that my trader have done their home work. I want to see what they are going to be watch and why. I want them to give me support and resistance levels they are looking at, and how they will trade news if there is any do out.

facultus (Aug 14, 2003 6:10:00 PM)
What is your recommendation when its a head problem instead of a bad trading plan for losing trades?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:10:36 PM)
cut back size, trade less

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:10:44 PM)
wait for gimmie trades

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:11:16 PM)
try to get a tring of small winning day to build on

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:11:27 PM)
then grdually add size

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:11:45 PM)
talk over what is going through their mind as they trade

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:12:04 PM)
what emeotions are they feeling

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:12:20 PM)
fear ,anger,

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:12:32 PM)
try to calm them down

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:12:57 PM)
walk through some trade with them, ones i have good conviction on

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:13:15 PM)
Mark... this leads to one last question.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:13:26 PM)
o.k.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:13:44 PM)
One member could not find any information on the web site concerning prop trading, are you currently looking for prop traders?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:14:43 PM)
right now of prop shop is not looking for new traders, i have all i can handle, feel free to send me your resumes at mark@velocityfutures.com

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:14:53 PM)
You realize of course, you've made a good case for yourself today!

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:15:19 PM)
I try my best

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:15:25 PM)
::smiles::

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:15:36 PM)
thanks for having me

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:15:42 PM)
Plenty of capacity for retail accounts, correct?

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:16:31 PM)
yep, our founder is Jack Earnest the found of Momentum Securities, well backed

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:16:39 PM)
Great.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:16:42 PM)
Well folks, I think's time to let Mark go, he's been with us for quite awhile. Mark, thanks so much for joining us today.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:16:50 PM)
Please take a look into http://www.velocityfutures.com/

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:17:12 PM)
feel free tp pm me at velocity_trader on the elite trader sie

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:17:19 PM)
site

Guest (Aug 14, 2003 6:17:22 PM)
Thanx Mark

AngryBull (Aug 14, 2003 6:17:34 PM)
Thanks for an interesting discussion.

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:17:49 PM)
or email me at mark@velocityfutures.com and I will try to answer your trading ?s

bubba7 (Aug 14, 2003 6:17:59 PM)
Thanks

Mark Oryhon (Aug 14, 2003 6:18:15 PM)
thanks again for having me

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:18:29 PM)
You bet, Mark.

Andre (Aug 14, 2003 6:18:33 PM)
And remember, while this chat session may have ended, the discussion doesn't have to. For additional questions and comments, please see the following thread on our message board: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21072