Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:28:58 PM)
Today, we welcome Aaron Schindler to the Elite Trader chat room.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:29:07 PM)
You may have seen Aaron's posts from time to time here on Elite Trader. But we didn't invite him here today because he's a regular member!

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:29:18 PM)
No, we invited Aaron here because he is the founder and principal trader of his own Hedge Fund, Schindler Trading and for the variety of experiences he's had.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:29:27 PM)
A graduate of MIT, Aaron started out as a physicist but left the Ph.D. program at UC Berkeley to take a job with Market Wizard, Monroe Trout.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:29:59 PM)
I could go on, but let's get to it. Welcome, Aaron, Tom... thanks for joining us today. Aaron, you're starting us off today. Go ahead.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:30:03 PM)
Thank you Andre.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:30:11 PM)
I have about 5 to 10 minutes of prepared material to lead with and then Tom Chlada would like to make a few comments on FfastTrade and then we'll take questions.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:30:24 PM)
I'd like to open with some information on Schindler Trading and how we do what we do. I hope it will be interesting and provoke some follow-up questions.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:30:33 PM)
Schindler Trading is a Commodity Trading Advisor or CTA. A CTA is just the legal name for a money management firm that trades or recommends trades in futures rather than equities. As a CTA we trade futures for institutional separately managed accounts and for the Schindler Fund, a managed futures hedge fund.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:30:47 PM)
We primarily trade the Nasdaq e-mini's, the German DAX index futures, and the 10 year T-note futures. We have a holding period of typically 1 to 3 days. And we go both long and short and try to profit in both bull and bear markets.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:31:03 PM)
There is plenty of background information on me and performance information on Schindler Trading available on our website at www.SchindlerTrading.com, so I'll get right into the topics that were advertised…

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:31:17 PM)
Starting and managing a hedge fund… The Schindler Fund is an Illinois limited partnership. Schindler Trading, a sole proprietorship, is the general partner, and all the other investors are limited partners.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:31:30 PM)
If you are a profitable trader and are considering managing money for other people, whether futures or equities, there are two ways you can go. You can either have your investor open their own account and give you power of attorney to trade it, or you can pool everyone's money in a hedge fund and trade it through a single account.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:31:43 PM)
Separately managed accounts are easy to set up but it gets to be unwieldy to manage a lot of them. Pools have regulatory and tax hassles, but scale up more easily.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:31:53 PM)
From the investors point of view an advantage of a separately managed account is that you are the only one that has signing authority over your account. Only you can withdraw your money. While there is very little risk of shenanigans with an established fund manager that has a good reputation and is audited by the NFA and an independent CPA, there is nothing like the safety of being the only signer on the account.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:32:16 PM)
On the other hand, an advantage of investing in a fund is that your losses are limited to the amount of your investment. With a separately managed futures or equity account, if your manager is using leverage and blows up, you can lose more than your initial investment. If your account goes underwater, the broker is going to go looking to the investor to pay the debt.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:32:35 PM)
Hedge funds, however, are structured as LLCs and LP. The first L in both cases stands for "limited" meaning the investors losses are limited to the amount of their investment. The broker is going to go looking to the fund manager to pay the debt if the fund goes underwater.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:33:05 PM)
Investing in hedge funds… To find hedge funds for possible investment, I would recommend the online databases that report hedge fund results. Some of them are Barclaygrp.com, Cogenthedge.com, Investorforce.com, Autumngold.com, Morganstanley.com, Iasg.com, and eHedge.de. The ones your broker refers you to will probably be paying a high commission rate to that broker in exchange for the recommendation and won't get you the best returns.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:33:38 PM)
Money management… We use basic fixed fractional trade sizing. For example, if we have twice as much money in the fund, we'll trade twice as many contracts. How many contracts we trade is based on Monte Carlo simulation and we target an aggressive 4.6% daily standard deviation of returns

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:34:20 PM)
Backtesting and developing strategies… We are 100% systematic traders. We thoroughly backtest everything and know what to expect from our strategies. We know how big our drawdowns should be and how frequent. We try to take the emotion out of trading and just take the signals as they come. Much of our time is spent in ongoing strategy research.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:34:42 PM)
We split our historical data into two parts, an in-sample and out-of-sample portion. We develop and optimize our strategies on the in-sample portion of the data and then when we are all set to trade the strategy we'll test it on the out-of-sample portion of the data to get statistics on what kind of drawdowns and profitability to expect.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:35:06 PM)
I look for strategy ideas everywhere. Some fruitful places to look are trading books, the Elite Trader forums, Wealth Lab.com, Stocks & Commodities magazine, Active Trader magazine, Futures magazine, trading books, and seminars.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:35:23 PM)
oops, said trading books twice, sorry.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:35:32 PM)
Then once you have an interesting idea the next step is to backtest it on your in-sample data. If it looks promising you'll probably want to play around with changes. "What if's", I call them. "What if we always exit at the close?" "What if I use a filter to only enter trades when the market is trending?" "What if I only enter trades when gold is below it's 50 day moving average?" Try any and everything.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:35:55 PM)
When I first started Schindler Trading I spent all my time on research (hunting for and developing trading strategies). As time has passed I've been spending less time on research and more time trading the profitable strategies we've already developed. But I still spend about a third of my time on research.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:36:19 PM)
Research is actually usually a waste of time. Most of the strategy ideas I try and the "What if's" I try don't pan out. But once in awhile you'll get a profitable indicator. That's an exciting day.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:36:35 PM)
And speaking of wasting time… Trading is one of the few professions where you can work hard all day and go home poorer than when you started. If my research isn't going anywhere and the day's trades have been unprofitable, trading can be extremely frustrating and depressing.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:36:54 PM)
The psychology of trading is an interesting topic. I'm not an expert in it, but I can certainly commisserate with my fellow traders about how physically painful drawdowns are. Sometimes I just want to barf. It helps a little to remember that today is just one of 250-some trading days this year and what happens today is small if you look at the big picture. Anyway, on to the next topic…

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:37:14 PM)
My hardware and software… I'm sitting here at a Gateway Athlon 1400MHz computer with a dual monitor Matrox G550 video card and two 17 inch LCD monitors. I use Earthlink DSL with dialup backup. I'm running Windows XP. We do all our backtesting on Tradestation 2000i using intraday data from Tickdata.com. Our datafeed is the free Quote.com data.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:37:30 PM)
We use Ian Brant's Margin Account Calculator and Quickbooks to do our accounting and TurboTax for Business to do the partnership's tax returns. Our financial statements are audited by a local CPA firm.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:37:45 PM)
Since we trade thousands of contracts per month and spend thousands of dollars per month on commissions, it is very important that we have a good and inexpensive broker. Originally we used Interactive Brokers but a few months ago we switched to FFastTrade. We switched because FFastTrade has lower commissions and better customer service.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:38:04 PM)
I think for one-lot futures traders and equity traders, Interactive Brokers is still a good choice, but for active futures traders, switching to FFastTrade will probably improve your results. I'd recommend using their pricing calculator at FFasttrade.com to see if FFasttrade can save you money.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:38:20 PM)
Tom Chlada, the COO of FFastTrade, is here and can say more about what kind of trader FFastTrade makes sense for before we open it up for questions. Tom?

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:38:39 PM)
Tom, thanks for joining us today.

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 4:38:50 PM)
Thanks Aaron!

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 4:39:13 PM)
I would like to tell you a little about our system!

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:40:32 PM)
Go ahead, Tom.

jamako (Mar 26, 2003 4:40:32 PM)
test

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 4:40:35 PM)
FFastTrade was founded with the idea that a Firm that supports its own technology will provide a better product and better support for that product. We feel that the FFastFill product suite provides our clients with a great degree of flexibility and functionality. We believe that our strengths are exactly what the Professional traders are looking for: Speed, Excellent Support and Aggressive Pricing!

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 4:40:57 PM)
FFastTrade offers connectivity to the CME, CBOT, EUREX and LIFFE exchanges. The FFastTrade Remote Pro offering was designed for higher volume clients, such as Hedge funds and professional traders

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 4:41:19 PM)
Our remote professional trading system is called FFastTrix and it is delivered via Citrix meta-frame technology over the web. Citrix provides our clients with an extremely fast and seamless interface into the major exchanges. Due to Citrix’s Shadowing feature, we are able to provide excellent training and split second troubleshooting. This advanced technology allows our Support team to provide excellent Support and Service

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 4:41:47 PM)
With that I'll let the Q and A session begin!

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:41:53 PM)
aaron, i understand that your fund has a minimum investment of only 20k. with this type of ultra low entry cost, how do you attract the SEC required "accredited" investor to your fund ? i understand that even 100k is low entry for most hedge funds.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:41:57 PM)
Now that wasn't too bad, was it?

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:42:00 PM)
::grins::

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:42:17 PM)
Hmm, how do we attract investors?

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:42:25 PM)
no, accredited investors

TKOtrader (Mar 26, 2003 4:42:35 PM)
both

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:42:51 PM)
Well, we can accept up to 35 non-accredited investors.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:43:01 PM)
And those 35 slots aren't filled yet.

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:43:05 PM)
ok, out of 100 total right ?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:43:26 PM)
But even if someone is non-accreditted, we require that they be sophisticated and can afford to lose $20k.

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:43:33 PM)
ok

blueberrycake (Mar 26, 2003 4:43:35 PM)
FT Tom do you have any statistics for FFasttrade system uptime / availability?

quickTRADER (Mar 26, 2003 4:43:41 PM)
****** I JUST HOPE FFAST FILLS ARE FASTER THAN TOM WAS............... J/K

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:43:49 PM)
hedge funds in general can only accept 99 investors to avoid becoming a registered security.

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:43:54 PM)
yes

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:43:59 PM)
:P

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 4:44:03 PM)
We don't actually have Uptime stats!

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:44:03 PM)
in terms of paperwork, what did u have to do to get registered as CTA vs hedge fund? do you have to hire a lawyer?

Jim Kelvin (Mar 26, 2003 4:44:08 PM)
Aaron, are those 35 non-accredited investors limited partners?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:44:25 PM)
all investors, beside the general partner are limited partners.

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 4:44:31 PM)
Technical gliches!

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:44:33 PM)
liability from non accredited investors would worry me

quickTRADER (Mar 26, 2003 4:44:40 PM)
LOL

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:44:52 PM)
there is a good document on the NFA website about who needs to register as a CTA and how to do it.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:45:04 PM)
When you first start out you will probably be exempt from registration.

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:45:16 PM)
aaron - 35 nonaccredited. so that means only 64 slots left for accredited investors? what happend if you have more demand in teh future?

papierow (Mar 26, 2003 4:45:21 PM)
NFA website?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:45:28 PM)
You need 15 clients or $200k (I think) assets in your pool to require registration.

blueberrycake (Mar 26, 2003 4:45:36 PM)
Aaron, can you talk a little bit about your trading methodology? Obviously not your specific system rules, but some ideas to stimulate thinking for the rest of us.

kztd (Mar 26, 2003 4:45:46 PM)
or specifics

Jim Kelvin (Mar 26, 2003 4:45:48 PM)
Aaron, do you ONLY position trade or do you use some daytrading strategies as well?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:45:55 PM)
For commodity pools you can have more than 99 investors. But that isn't true for equity hedge funds.

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:46:31 PM)
aaron - oic! thanks. so, is a commodity pool easier ot registered or less strict than an euqity hedge fund?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:46:36 PM)
Our bread and butter are short term strategies with a holding period measured in days (not hours or weeks).

Banjo (Mar 26, 2003 4:46:43 PM)
http://www.nfa.futures.org./

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:46:47 PM)
thx, banjo.

PKJR (Mar 26, 2003 4:46:53 PM)
? Aaron - what is your current performance for 2003?

kztd (Mar 26, 2003 4:46:58 PM)
Is it acceptable to open a new equity fund that invests essentially the same as a previous one once you get to 99 investors?

papierow (Mar 26, 2003 4:46:58 PM)
thx, Banjo.

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:46:58 PM)
banjo - thanks

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:47:36 PM)
do you utilize the sharpe ratio or feel that it is not telling enough ?

Jim Kelvin (Mar 26, 2003 4:47:38 PM)
Aaron what is your average trade size in notes and emini's per trade please?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:47:58 PM)
The regulations regarding registration and being an unregistered security are highly, highly complex and more than I can type out in a few minutes. I'd recommend a securities lawyer unless you are confident in wading through things like the Investment Act of 1940, etc.

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:48:03 PM)
aarons - t-notes in 2yrs or 5yrs or 10yrs notes?

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:48:05 PM)
Ok, let's let him catch up, before we ask more questions.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:48:41 PM)
I get strategy ideas from many places, including the ET forums. I like the journals for ideas.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:48:54 PM)
Like the Tampa Short Skirt thread was interesting, for example.

blueberrycake (Mar 26, 2003 4:49:16 PM)
ideas for how not to do things? ;-)

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:49:23 PM)
Even if someone uses a strategy for daytrading, I might try applying that to daily data and see how it looks.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:49:39 PM)
Performance numbers are on our website.

OPTIONAL777 (Mar 26, 2003 4:50:04 PM)
why look for ideas if you have a good system?

swoop[TR] (Mar 26, 2003 4:50:15 PM)
diversification

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:50:24 PM)
optional777 - i think most fudn managers tinkere with their system to tryi to improve it or in case the old ones degrade. research is central

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:50:25 PM)
I don't do much with the Sharpe ratio but do always look at the risk versus reward of any new strategies.

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:50:30 PM)
thank you

max401 (Mar 26, 2003 4:50:39 PM)
why should he not look for new innovations?

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:50:40 PM)
is the sharpe ratio posted on the site ?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:50:41 PM)
We trade the 10 year t-notes.

BrainInAJar (Mar 26, 2003 4:50:54 PM)
I call it 'evolving the system', finding new ideas, incorporating them into the trading methodology, and discarding less effective ideas.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:51:09 PM)
We are always looking for new ideas even while trading our current strategies that have so far proven to be profitable.

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:51:11 PM)
mini 10yr or the full contract?

iceman1 (Mar 26, 2003 4:51:11 PM)
question

iceman1 (Mar 26, 2003 4:51:18 PM)
do you trade options

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:51:23 PM)
Is there any discretion in your trading Aaron?

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:51:37 PM)
aaron - are u directional or market neutral?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:51:38 PM)
We trade the a/c/e 10-years.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:51:53 PM)
I like electronic markets versus open outcry. Better fills, less slippage.

vtrader (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:00 PM)
Aaron - you do Risk Arb NQ DX?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:04 PM)
No discretion.

sdaustin (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:05 PM)
a/c/e ???

BillW (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:07 PM)
do you trade one system only? if more than one, then how many systems do you trade simutaneously?

oegeat (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:08 PM)
test

max401 (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:14 PM)
What have you flipped in the last couple of days?

jamako (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:21 PM)
Aaron you said to start out you would have to build a track record. Could you explain please?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:22 PM)
Always directional (except when we are out of the market).

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:33 PM)
no discretion, but an ever changing system ??

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:43 PM)
that seems odd to me

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:56 PM)
a/c/e is the electronic CBOT exchange. Like CME has the Globex.

Skiley (Mar 26, 2003 4:52:58 PM)
aaron, how to build a track record?

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:00 PM)
how do u determined to be out of the market? no signal? what happend if u miss an unexpected move?

Jim Kelvin (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:00 PM)
Aaron, what is your average trade size in notes as well as emini's please?

sdaustin (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:03 PM)
thx!

swoop[TR] (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:05 PM)
walk forward and self optimization

DblArrow (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:15 PM)
sdaustin - alliance/CBOT/Eurex

leegao (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:18 PM)
why keep looking for new ideas? Odd.

swoop[TR] (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:20 PM)
doesn't make it "discretionary"

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:28 PM)
yes, it does

PoundTheRock (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:31 PM)
Aaron: why are your institutional accounts separate? wouldn't they be limited partners in the hedge fund as well?

quickTRADER (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:31 PM)
TRUE

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:37 PM)
Let's let him catch up folks.

BrainInAJar (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:40 PM)
The markets always evolve, Optional777, you need to evolve your system with it to keep up.

RAY (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:44 PM)
because the ball (market) is always changing

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:49 PM)
Not everchanging. It is rare that we add a new indicator or tradeable. But if we do, it is fully backtested and we trade it mechanically. That's what I mean by systematic.

sdaustin (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:49 PM)
thx, DblArrow

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:50 PM)
aaron - 10yr a/c/e symbol is ZN right? i've traded ZB(30yrs). u like th e10yr more?

bro59 (Mar 26, 2003 4:53:52 PM)
Aaron: Boxers or Briefs?

quickTRADER (Mar 26, 2003 4:54:03 PM)
LOL @ BRO

oegeat (Mar 26, 2003 4:54:12 PM)
hallo

leegao (Mar 26, 2003 4:54:23 PM)
i agree

london (Mar 26, 2003 4:54:24 PM)
optionalU have to adapt to different mrkt conditions

kztd (Mar 26, 2003 4:54:25 PM)
How do you estimate slippage ?

leegao (Mar 26, 2003 4:54:34 PM)
ditto

vtrader (Mar 26, 2003 4:54:36 PM)
Aaron - Risk ARB ES or NQ VES DAX ?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:54:53 PM)
I've got institutions in the fund and as separately managed accounts. Some institutions like it one way or the other.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:55:05 PM)
Yes, ZN.

rcreal (Mar 26, 2003 4:55:14 PM)
? for Tom FF -- when you are ready

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:55:45 PM)
aaron - how did u get your first institutional client?? since u r "prohibited from advertising" b/c ofa hedge fund?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:55:45 PM)
I always watch slippage but comparing the average fill price to the last trade price at the time I decide to put on my trade.

BillW (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:05 PM)
do you trade just one system? if more than one, usually how many simutaneously?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:22 PM)
Vtrader, I won't be commenting on specific strategies or trades.

Skiley (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:26 PM)
how long have you been trading? how did you buile your track record?

vtrader (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:30 PM)
can you explain what is out of sample verses in-sample ..

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:36 PM)
is the funds results audited by an outside auditor

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:41 PM)
vtrader - just read a stat books

rcreal (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:43 PM)
Tom - is FF still offering the educational seminars. either 3 or 8 day?

ft susan (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:45 PM)
rcreal, I can answer, if you like...

rcreal (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:50 PM)
ty

Jim Kelvin (Mar 26, 2003 4:56:57 PM)
AARON, WHAT IS YOUR AVERAGE TRADE SIZE PLEASE?! THNX!

vtrader (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:03 PM)
whats that trader99

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:03 PM)
3 day seminars in April

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:04 PM)
The institutions find out about you mostly through the database websites at first and then through word of mouth as you network and your current investors give you referrals.

Jim Kelvin (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:07 PM)
sorry for the caps folks! :)

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:31 PM)
any institution i ever spoke to needs a sharpe ratio

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:34 PM)
I orginally learned about trading while working for Monroe Trout in the early and mid-90s.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:37 PM)
Folks, we've got to slow down the questions.

BrainInAJar (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:42 PM)
Can you tell me what you mean when you say 'database websites'?

iceman1 (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:54 PM)
. whoaaa

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 4:57:57 PM)
Give him a chance, or PM me, and I'll call on you.

iceman1 (Mar 26, 2003 4:58:02 PM)
deep breaths

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:58:13 PM)
Build a track record by putting together a fund with just a few k if that's all you can raise and keep detailed records so you can have them audited someday.

TraderMaceo (Mar 26, 2003 4:58:20 PM)
How much history and what kinds of history do investors generally want to see?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:59:14 PM)
in-sample data is data you use to create and optimize your strategy on. Out-of-sample is separate data you backtest on at the very end to get a sense of the true profitability of your system.

OPTIONAL777 (Mar 26, 2003 4:59:43 PM)
you say keep a track record of a few K, but that in no way is the same as trading millions

ke6cdh (Mar 26, 2003 4:59:52 PM)
You said something about quote.com free data?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 4:59:54 PM)
avg. trade size varies by contract and strategy and desired volatility. Anywhere from 1 lot to 300 lots sometimes.

DT-waw (Mar 26, 2003 4:59:56 PM)
Aaron how you choose best markets to trade, can give you some tips

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:00:02 PM)
Folks, please PM me to get in the que, and we'll smooth out the questions. I'll call on you when it's your turn.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:00:23 PM)
We have monthly average return and standard deviation on our website. Take the ratio to get the sharpe ratio.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:00:49 PM)
database websites are the ones I mentioned in my opening remarks. Autumngold.com, Cogenthedge.com, etc.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:01:06 PM)
The room is alive and well, we're now filtering questions, folks.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:01:19 PM)
They keep databases of hedge fund performance and let users look at them.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:02:08 PM)
Yeah, you're not going to go from a few k to a few million overnight. You'll slowly grow, probably.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:02:23 PM)
If you can make money with your few k, then maybe you can get someone to trust you with 10k...

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:02:34 PM)
Then a few more people with 10k, then a few at 50k, etc.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:02:51 PM)
You'll want to target your friends, neighbors, family first.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:03:12 PM)
You won't be of interest to institutions until you have a couple years under your belt.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:03:17 PM)
Aaron, have you cought up with most questions now?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:03:31 PM)
yeah, just go to quote.com and look at their free "livecharts".

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:03:38 PM)
sure, Andre. Who's next?

kztd (Mar 26, 2003 5:03:52 PM)
how do you select a lawyer?

BrainInAJar (Mar 26, 2003 5:03:53 PM)
Do you recommend being ranked by all the ranking services out there, or do you recommend any specific ones?

Skiley (Mar 26, 2003 5:04:12 PM)
what's your worst drawdown ever? did you ever get wiped out before?

gone2trade (Mar 26, 2003 5:04:12 PM)
Aaron, could you expand a bit on how you established yourself as a hedgefund with limited starting capital (100K). From looking at GreenTraderTax, who portray themselves as affordable, it seems initial set-up would be around 12K and annual ongoing expenses around 31K. Did you find you had similar cost, just starting up?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:04:19 PM)
Pick a lawyer who is specifically a securities lawyer.

ke6cdh (Mar 26, 2003 5:04:25 PM)
How do you get the free live charts data into tradestation2000i

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:04:54 PM)
If you talk to them they should know the ins and outs of how many investors you can have and when you need to register and how to write a disclosure documents.

blueberrycake (Mar 26, 2003 5:04:57 PM)
aaron, can I ask trading specific questions?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:05:15 PM)
You can search for lawyers I think on the MFA (Managed Funds Assoc.) website.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:05:32 PM)
Technical difficulties.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:05:52 PM)
Try to get ranked by as many services as possible. The more the exposure the better. Hedge funds are prohibited from general advertising.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:06:12 PM)
Worst drawdown is 20 or 30% or so. I haven't ever been wiped out.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:06:16 PM)
shiver.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:06:45 PM)
I wrote my disclosure document and partnership agreement myself and didn't pay a lawyer for anything.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:07:05 PM)
I had experience in contract writing in reinsurance, though, not everyone could do it.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:07:32 PM)
But if you do try, you want to get as many disclosure doc and partnership agreements as you can get your hands on and use them for ideas and wording.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:07:48 PM)
And I would suggest using lawyer created docs as examples, not mine! :)

NYSEtradinglog (Mar 26, 2003 5:08:04 PM)
Aaron - as a rule of thumb how much of your capital in the fund and under management is holded by institutionals... thx

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:08:28 PM)
We only use TS2000i for backtesting. There is no DDE or API for the free charts at quote.com

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:08:47 PM)
you can ask, Blueberry, but I won't be discussing specific strategies or trades.

BrainInAJar (Mar 26, 2003 5:09:43 PM)
Can you enlighten us as to why hedge funds can't do general advertising? How do they 'get the word out'?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:09:49 PM)
Most of our investors are individuals. The rest are all funds of funds and family offices. We have no endowment funds, pension funds, or corporations. We're still too young for them.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:10:13 PM)
The Schindler Fund has been in existence for a little over 1.5 years.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:11:18 PM)
If you do general solicitation you will no longer be exempt from registration. Being a registered security is a big and expensive step. You'll want to avoid registration.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:11:23 PM)
Aaron, we have a couple of related questions here, let me send them through and then you can respond.

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 5:11:31 PM)
aaron - is that 20-30% drawdown for the yr or a month?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:11:35 PM)
You get the word out by networking and the database websites.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:11:44 PM)
peak to valley.

praetorian2 (Mar 26, 2003 5:12:18 PM)
Aaron, have you found it increasingly easier to raise capital now that you have a great track record and over a year of results and contacts? At what point would you begin to raise the minimum investment level, or have you already considered that?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:12:55 PM)
Yes, after we topped the charts with +97% in '02 we got a lot of new investors.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:13:21 PM)
We're going to hold the minimum at $20k.

swoop[TR] (Mar 26, 2003 5:13:33 PM)
Your drawdowns are fairly big though, how do you deal with clients ?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:13:53 PM)
Yes, we have bigger drawdowns and take on a lot more risk than most other CTAs...

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:14:17 PM)
I always always emphasize the risk when talking to prospective investors.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:14:27 PM)
With your background in mathematics, I know you're big on backtesting. Does that help you convince clients to put their money with you?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:14:59 PM)
They should be able to afford to lose the money they invest and not have it affect their standard of living. I've turned away investors who I didn't think were prepared for the risk.

vtrader (Mar 26, 2003 5:15:47 PM)
Aaron: how long did it realy take you, in years to build the right personality for trading .. the diciplin to execute your system and be profitable

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:15:48 PM)
I've seen it both ways... Some investors only want systematic trading and some only want discretionary (and thus look elsewhere after talking to us).

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:16:16 PM)
Investors like to see a consistent level of risk, though and I think our rigorous approach gives people comfort.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:16:41 PM)
So you see it both ways, that they size you up as a trader, looking for discretionary skills they don't have themselves?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:17:09 PM)
Well, I had times early on where I would try to do override my systems and it is great when it turns out well, but...

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:17:43 PM)
When it turns out poorly the nausea is even worse than if you just follow a system and take losses. I don't have the stomach for discretionary trading.

swoop[TR] (Mar 26, 2003 5:18:37 PM)
do you have a lot of turnarounds ?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:18:42 PM)
I don't have discretionary skills. I can't read the market. I can, however, test a bazillion different strategy ideas and find a few that stand the test of time, statistically speaking, and pull the trigger as necessary.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:19:01 PM)
turn arounds? You mean "round turns"?

swoop[TR] (Mar 26, 2003 5:19:57 PM)
No client turnaround, i would expect these drawdowns create clients to leave etc...

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:20:12 PM)
We are active traders compared to most hedge funds. We also trade bigger sizes than most other CTAs relative to our account sizes.

TraderMaceo (Mar 26, 2003 5:20:38 PM)
What types of pitfalls have you found using a backtesting model?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:20:52 PM)
Interestingly we've only had one client leave ever. His mother died and he needed money to settle the estate. He said he'll be back when he gets his inheritance.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:21:09 PM)
I try to keep the investors focussed on the long term...

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:21:14 PM)
Can you tell us the size of your fund?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:21:42 PM)
We are going to have down months and drawdowns and big down months and big drawdowns, but over time I expect we'll be profitable and I've got a lot of my own money invested in the fund also.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:22:13 PM)
The Schindler Fund is about Aaron Schindler.5m and we've got another $4m in an institutional separately managed account.

uptik2000 (Mar 26, 2003 5:22:32 PM)
aaron, what was your estimated start-up costs?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:23:01 PM)
Can't think of any specific pitfalls, other than strategies not performing as well as hoped.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:23:48 PM)
startup costs were zero I think. I wrote the documents, was exempt from NFA and CFTC registration at first.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:23:51 PM)
Ah, no...

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:23:56 PM)
And we had a question about managment fees and performances fees.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:23:57 PM)
I did have some expenses...

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:24:20 PM)
It cost a couple hundred dollars to file the partnership with the state and county.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:24:44 PM)
We charge 2% of assets annually and 20% of net new profits as fees.

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 5:25:10 PM)
aaron, if one can get "boiler plate" documents is a lawyer still needed to set up the fund ?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:25:15 PM)
As we've grown there have been more and more expenses but there wasn't much to start with.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:25:50 PM)
Now it costs us a couple thousand to be audited and another couple thousand for NFA and CFTC membership and another couple thousand to comply with the state Blue Sky laws.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:26:14 PM)
no, there is no requirement to use a lawyer. It's a good idea though.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:26:32 PM)
Aaron, we've been at it for a while now. And a que is developing nicely. Can you stay for a while longer, I know we've got questions!

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:26:32 PM)
It's like selling a house... You don't need a realtor, but most people use one.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:26:46 PM)
yeah, I'll be here another half hour.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:26:57 PM)
Ok, folks... let me just say this:

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:27:08 PM)
We got our back end tools working smoothly.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:27:11 PM)
brb, bathroom.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:27:17 PM)
I am getting your questions.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:27:22 PM)
I am screening them.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:27:41 PM)
I asked earlier to submit them via private message. Well, you don't have to do that.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:28:06 PM)
Post them just as you would a chat, and I'll send them through, trying to cut out smoe duplicates, etc.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:28:27 PM)
okay.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:28:29 PM)
Aaron, when you're back, I've got a cluster here to send through.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:28:39 PM)
go ahead.

oegeat (Mar 26, 2003 5:28:39 PM)
which future market do you trade ?

max401 (Mar 26, 2003 5:28:48 PM)
Your favorite sectors this past 30 days?

kztd (Mar 26, 2003 5:28:58 PM)
how do you code the exit? next minute at close?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:29:14 PM)
Hiya, oegeat! We primarily trade the e-mini nasdaq, 10 year US treasury notes, and German DAX index futures.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:29:26 PM)
We don't play individual sectors.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:29:42 PM)
Code the exit?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:29:55 PM)
When I'm backtesting in Tradestation?

kztd (Mar 26, 2003 5:29:57 PM)
trade station

kztd (Mar 26, 2003 5:30:10 PM)
y

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:30:56 PM)
Ah. Various different ways... Sometimes I backtest trying stop and limit orders... "sell next bar at 999 limit" and sometimes I'll use a market order "sell next bar" or "sell this bar at close"

TraderMaceo (Mar 26, 2003 5:31:30 PM)
Since you use TS2000i, how have you delt with the limitations of the platform and what were those limitations?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:32:15 PM)
Well, before TS2000i came out there was a big limitation in the number of bars Tradestation could read from a datafile. That limitation was so severe that it made Tradestation unusable for us....

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:32:40 PM)
We had to do system testing in Visual c++. 2000i can handle much larger datafiles.

TraderMaceo (Mar 26, 2003 5:33:09 PM)
How do you compile and evaluate the data you receive from 2000i?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:33:30 PM)
2000i has its quirks, and if necessary you can always write a .dll to handle difficult things. It is still a beast, though, but better than coding from scratch and far more powerful than Excel spreadsheets.

ke6cdh (Mar 26, 2003 5:33:42 PM)
Can you tell us your favorite indicator to use for S&P e-mini?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:33:53 PM)
We purchase tick data from Tickdata.com and read it into Tradestation as ASCII files.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:34:12 PM)
Sorry, not discussing specific trading strategies or trades.

trader60611 (Mar 26, 2003 5:34:14 PM)
Do you use default "front month" tickdata rollover parameters on intraday 10-year?:

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:34:32 PM)
I don't want anyone else exploiting and eliminating the inefficiences in the market we think we've found.

Jim Kelvin (Mar 26, 2003 5:34:48 PM)
Tom, if you are still around, if I trade on average between 50-75 emini round trips per day how much will I save on commision if I switch to your services? (compare to Interactive Brokers)

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 5:35:01 PM)
Jim,

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:35:06 PM)
Yes, we use the auto-roll feature in TickWrite from tickdata. I recommend back adjusting your data.

PoundTheRock (Mar 26, 2003 5:35:47 PM)
Aaron: what is the range of profit factors for your various systems, and do you have a minimum cutoff?

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 5:35:50 PM)
Jim, If you go to our website our calculator will give you an accurate price. www.ffasttrade.com

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:36:23 PM)
We pay FFasttrade 50 cents per contract plus fees plus $550 monthly platform fee. It's the best rate around if you are active enough to swallow the platform fee.

ChatMaster (Mar 26, 2003 5:36:35 PM)
http://www.ffasttrade.com if you just want to click

TraderMaceo (Mar 26, 2003 5:36:47 PM)
We have been running tests on several different time frames and have found that the Strategy Report has some limitations due to numbers of trades, how do you verify your results

trader99 (Mar 26, 2003 5:36:56 PM)
aaron - do u use wealth-lab as well?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:37:46 PM)
profit factors vary and what a good profit factor is will vary with its holding period and what you put in for slippage and commission.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:38:19 PM)
I'd recommend Charlie Wright's book for a good discussion of profit factors.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:38:50 PM)
What limitations are you referring to?

TraderMaceo (Mar 26, 2003 5:39:36 PM)
Tradestation won't report correct trade by trade information with more than about 6000 trades.

TraderMaceo (Mar 26, 2003 5:39:58 PM)
In fact, we've gotten different results using the same strategy, same settings, same data on three different machines.

BrainInAJar (Mar 26, 2003 5:40:24 PM)
I've noticed the same thing.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:40:24 PM)
I like the wealth-lab site and how easy it is to test things on a portfolio of equities. But, without paying money, you can't test things intraday there, so we don't do a lot there. TS2000i is still our primary backtest platform.

trader60611 (Mar 26, 2003 5:40:59 PM)
re Tickdata asci to TS... what is proper "32nds" setting and "value" amount ( I assume 1000)

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:41:17 PM)
That's bizarre. How about splitting your datafile up so you get fewer than 6k trades per run?

marketsurfer (Mar 26, 2003 5:41:55 PM)
aaron, tradestation instituional provides free tick data why do you pay for it from another vendor ?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:42:00 PM)
Yes, Aaron Schindler000 sounds right. I can't recall of the top of my head. We set it once quite a while ago and then you never have to change it.

TraderMaceo (Mar 26, 2003 5:42:35 PM)
Our initial theory was to test more than a year at a time. Can you comment on the pros and cons of using different amounts of time to backtest?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:42:36 PM)
We use Tradestation 2000i, the old desktop version of Tradestation.

trader60611 (Mar 26, 2003 5:43:09 PM)
I can't read the right side of the 32nds display window But thank you.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:43:10 PM)
Yes, test on more than one year, but split up your datafile if you need to to get accurate results.

BrainInAJar (Mar 26, 2003 5:43:25 PM)
Aaron, what's your take on neural nets? Do you believe they will be used more in the future as the technology improves?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:43:42 PM)
There is an Omega Research email group that might help with TS problems for both of you.

eyecheck (Mar 26, 2003 5:44:35 PM)
Aaron: Do you have the title for Charlie Wright's book? Looked under Amazon but no luck

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:44:46 PM)
I've tried neural nets and didn't have much luck. Too many parameters at each of the nodes led to curvefitting and results that weren't reproducible out of sample.

ChatMaster (Mar 26, 2003 5:45:11 PM)
His book is online right on Elite Trader at http://www.elitetrader.com/tr/index.cfm

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:45:15 PM)
Genetic programming seems much more promising. Letting strategies evolved and compete against each other.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:45:52 PM)
Folks, I think it's about time to wrap this up. I know we haven't gotten to every question. I'd like to end it with a series of general questions...

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:46:09 PM)
sure.

uptik2000 (Mar 26, 2003 5:46:11 PM)
can you recommend a few of your most influential books?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:46:51 PM)
Well, the Charlie Wright book is called "Trading as a Business"

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:47:15 PM)
A good book on Hedge Fund formation is "How to Create and Manage a Hedge Fund" by Stuart McCrary.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:47:41 PM)
There are lots of good strategy ideas in the Market Wizard books.

Guest (Mar 26, 2003 5:47:57 PM)
Aaron, do you have any suggestions for someone who is interested in becoming a CTA (career paths, education/training, etc.)? I know this is a huge, open-ended question, but anything you could provide would be appreciated.

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 5:48:03 PM)
Jim Kelvin, if you trade 100 eminis per day or 2000 eminis per month, you will save $930 per month using FFastTrade over IB!

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:48:17 PM)
Hill & Pruit, Stridsman are good authors.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:48:24 PM)
There's some fast math for you!

Galt007 (Mar 26, 2003 5:48:47 PM)
FT Tom or Aaron - Please talk about size - say the E-Mini - DAX - 10 year - what's the basic min / max # of contracts that you move in and out of w/o difficulty (min slippage, etc0???

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:48:59 PM)
Balsara for money management.

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 5:49:06 PM)
Andre, FFast and Furious!

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 5:49:12 PM)
Galt,

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:49:50 PM)
Look at the typically size on the bid or ask. That's about how many you can move at a time. Maybe go a half or a quarter of that amount in a single order to be sure.

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 5:50:00 PM)
Galt, we have traders that trade a couple of hundred with minimum slippage. The minis are very liquid right now!

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:50:11 PM)
If you want to do more than that, split it up and do several orders spread over a few minutes.

Galt007 (Mar 26, 2003 5:50:44 PM)
you mean filled at once?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:50:50 PM)
Yes.

Galt007 (Mar 26, 2003 5:51:07 PM)
spread more than 100 over a few minutes?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:51:13 PM)
If there is 300 bid right now, you could immediately sell 300 contracts at that price with a market order.

TraderMaceo (Mar 26, 2003 5:51:24 PM)
Minimum slippage, means...

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:51:27 PM)
It varies with the market and the time of day.

FT Tom (Mar 26, 2003 5:51:41 PM)
Hitting the bid and getting them done!

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:51:51 PM)
And with that, I have more more question for Aaron:

Guest (Mar 26, 2003 5:51:56 PM)
Aaron do you enjoy managing/trading a hedge fund, and what are some of the biggest pros and cons ?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:52:03 PM)
You can easily blast in a 100 lot order into the ES market anytime the markets are open and not get much if any slippage.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:52:14 PM)
Okay, last question for Andre.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:52:23 PM)
"from" I mean.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:53:59 PM)
You have a question, Andre?

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:54:36 PM)
Aaron...he question is up already. Did you see it? What do you like best about managing a fund?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:54:50 PM)
No, I never saw it.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:55:31 PM)
I'll give you anotehr one: Aaron, you'll often see people comment that they're frustrated by their lack of capital. They want to see if they can do scale. Were you ever frustrated with capital size, was that a driving force in setting up a fund?

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:55:39 PM)
I like being my own boss and working from my home office and having no commute and being there when my sons took their first steps.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:56:01 PM)
Thanks for that question. It helps to remember those things on the down days.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:56:35 PM)
Even today most of my income comes from the profits on my personal account in the Schindler Fund...

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:57:13 PM)
I would recommend that people try trading in addition to a regular job at first unless you have a large cushion of reserves.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:58:08 PM)
Well, folks... it's been an hour and half of typing for Aaron.

ft susan (Mar 26, 2003 5:58:17 PM)
Aaron, Thank you from FFastTrade.

Andre (Mar 26, 2003 5:58:18 PM)
Aaron, thanks so much for joining us today.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:58:20 PM)
The reason to set up the fund was that other people wanted me to invest their money for them. At heart I'm really just an independent trader who has agreed to take others along for the ride if they so choose and understand the risk.

Aaron Schindler (Mar 26, 2003 5:58:33 PM)
Thank you for the opportunity!