Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:37:21 PM)
Today we're pleased to welcome the folks from http://www.tickquest.com to the Elite Trader Chat Room.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:37:33 PM)
TickQuest designs and produces advanced analytical software satisfying the needs of professional investors and offering innovative technology to improve their edge in trading.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:37:43 PM)
Presenting for us today is Lawrence Chan, one of the principles of TickQuest Inc., developer of the NeoTicker platform.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:37:52 PM)
Lawrence was an independent stock option trader on floor of the Toronto Stock Exchange. Then switched to off-floor trading and eventually moved onto trading index futures. Along the way he's managed money and mentored beginning traders. He still trades actively.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:38:04 PM)
Today, he's going to talk about NeoTicker's new Environment Simulation. It allows users to relive any moment of the market history and practice trading with an environment exactly like the one they will be monitoring in real-time.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:38:14 PM)
He'll touch on:

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:38:21 PM)
using quotes, charts, time and sales, etc. in the simulated environment.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:38:38 PM)
and practicing with trade execution in the simulated environment.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:38:49 PM)
Lawrence, welcome. Thanks for joining us today.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:38:57 PM)
Hi everyone.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:39:09 PM)
Today we are going to show you a feature in NeoTicker allowing you to practice trading interactively in after market hours.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:39:19 PM)
We call this technology environment simulation which gives you full experience of real-time trading, without the need to sit in front of the computer all day long.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:39:33 PM)
It is similar to the concept of training pilots with flight simulator.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:39:53 PM)
In order to make NeoTicker behaves exactly like it runs in real-time, we've created a server application called SimServer that works and feels like any other real-time data feed's server programs, except that it feeds NeoTicker with real tick-by-tick, including bid and ask, historical data.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:40:12 PM)
It is first time any trading software ever attempted to implement such a complex task :)

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:40:24 PM)
We will now go through a typical simulation session using historical data from October 9 this year.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:40:34 PM)
Here is the first screenshot of the SimServer program.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:40:43 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_01_simserver.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:41:07 PM)
We set the date to October 9, 2003 9:30 AM Eastern Time. Then press Start. SimServer will indicate it is started.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:41:25 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_02_simserver_started.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:41:48 PM)
When SimServer is started, it will notify NeoTicker to get itself ready and having all its charts, quote windows, etc. line up at 9:30 AM.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:42:01 PM)
We can take a look at NeoTicker to see what happen.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:42:11 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_03_fullscreen.gif

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 4:42:48 PM)
(Note: all the data you see in the figure are from simulation)

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:42:54 PM)
Here is a short descriptions of the windows layout.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:43:08 PM)
First, I have resized all the charts so that they fit into one screen.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:43:17 PM)
I usually trade with 3 monitors so the layout is a bit crowded here :)

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:43:28 PM)
I like using multiple time frames when trading emini S&P.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:43:36 PM)
In total I have 6 different time frames of emini S&P within the 3 charts shown here.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:43:57 PM)
I also like to monitor the TICK index, and TRIN closely - thus they are on the charts as well.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:44:16 PM)
The SP_TICK16 on the big chart is a user define symbol that behaves like the TICK index, but react way faster and more accurate.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:44:34 PM)
In total, we are replaying 10 symbols at the same time.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:44:44 PM)
Now back to SimServer.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:44:52 PM)
SimServer works like a DVD player.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:45:05 PM)
You can easily pause at any moment, or, if you like, fast forward to skip the slow market time.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:45:15 PM)
Just like what I have done here.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:45:24 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_04_fastforward.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:45:37 PM)
Let's skip to the next point in time.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:45:51 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_05_trendline_break.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:46:42 PM)
I draw that trendline while ticks are replayed into NeoTicker.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:47:09 PM)
I dim the formation is bullish. Now I place an order through the Trade Simulator to buy 1 emini SP.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:47:20 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_06_buy_at_market.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:47:38 PM)
Trade Simulator is part of NeoTicker.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:47:47 PM)
It is a virtual broker that allows you to practice trading with real-time data, and now, practice trading under the simulated environment.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:48:01 PM)
(side note: Since it is just a demonstration of the simulation process, if you disagree with the way I trade, we can discuss about that in a regular forum thread later :) )

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:48:15 PM)
When the order is filled, Trade Simulator will track the position for you.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:48:16 PM)
Good point.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:48:31 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_07_order_filled.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:48:47 PM)
Trade Simulator fills the orders with the incoming stream of historical data.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:48:58 PM)
The position will also be marked on the chart.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:49:15 PM)
After another 15 mins, I see another setup in place, so I buy 1 more.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:49:26 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_09_net_long_2.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:49:43 PM)
So I hanged on to the trade and wait to see if I have to bail out, or, if working according to plan, the market will take off :)

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:49:58 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_10_stay_long.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:50:23 PM)
I waited for the first major divergence in the SP_TICK16 and exited the complete position by selling the contracts at the market.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:50:35 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_12_flat_fullscreen.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:50:57 PM)
(side note: Again, if you do not feel like exiting your position there, you can certainly do so during your own practice session in NeoTicker :) )

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:51:09 PM)
That completed one position for that historical morning so far.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:51:21 PM)
As you can see, using SimServer to practice trading is as close to real-time trading as you can get, with the convenience of doing so at your own pace and schedule.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:51:37 PM)
There is another advantage of using the SimServer over real-time trading practice.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:51:56 PM)
No matter you just discovered a new trading setup, or, you have learned one from a peer trader or mentor, you can easily walk-thru many days of data and collect statistics of the performance by using SimServer in combination with Trade Simulator.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:52:19 PM)
Say, after you completed quite a number of positions using Trade Simulator, you can easily open the performance viewer to check on your results in details.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:52:30 PM)
Here is a screenshot of the performance viewer window of what we have done so far.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:52:37 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_14_sample_report.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:53:00 PM)
Performance viewer lets you view details of all the positions taken, summary statistics on how you perform, and, if you like, export the information to Excel to apply your own custom analysis.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:53:13 PM)
For example, here is the listing of all the transactions made so far (2 long and 2 short exactly).

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:53:22 PM)
http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/presentation/20031211/fig_15_transactions.gif

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:53:39 PM)
I walked through quite a number of trading days myself using this simulated environment.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:53:53 PM)
I find that it helps me focus a lot more in the exactness of the setups I trade and reinforce better practices.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:54:08 PM)
To just watch the day to play out in front of your eye at 10 times the normal speed, you can effectively learn the complete price action of the day within 45-50 minutes.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:54:21 PM)
Thus, even if you take a day or 2 off your trading, you can still warm up yourself with the past 2 days of data before jumping back into trading.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:54:36 PM)
If you are a beginner learning to trade, you will find that the ability to work with historical data to train yourself first will save you both money and time.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:54:51 PM)
Best yet, you can keep your day job until you have reached a point with better confidence before actually trading real money, in real-time.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:55:05 PM)
A side note - we have enabled the SimServer to be able to talk to 3rd party order placement software.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:55:21 PM)
Thus, if you like to practice trading with your favourite order placement software, you can do so.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:55:47 PM)
At this point, we've talked to Ray of NinjaTrader to support this linkage in his up coming NinjaTrader v3. Nothing final on this yet. :)

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:56:00 PM)
This conclude my presentation on practice trading.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:56:17 PM)
That's great LAwrence.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 4:56:37 PM)
If you have any questions, fire it now. I am ready.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:56:52 PM)
The tick by tick recall of historical data sure seem unique to your product.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:57:21 PM)
One of the commone complaints I've heard is that simulators don't give you an accurate fell for fill.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:57:28 PM)
fell=feel.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 4:57:40 PM)
Yes, also multiple symbols tick-by-tick in concert.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 4:57:57 PM)
How do you think your progarm does in projecting accurate fills?

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 4:57:58 PM)
The fill is very accurate as bid/ask data are also replayed

5R08Astang (Dec 11, 2003 4:58:27 PM)
Thanks, Lawrence. How far back in time does the historical data go?

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 4:58:57 PM)
As far as you wish as long as you have the data :)

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 4:59:17 PM)
Historical data can be retrieved by NeoTicker from data vendors

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 4:59:28 PM)
Also we provide sample data on our CD.

OrangeCat (Dec 11, 2003 5:00:04 PM)
Can one use their own custom indicators during simulation?

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:00:22 PM)
For the previous question on historical data - The current CD has about 3 months of tick data of the symbols like eminis ES, NQ, ADV, DECL, TRIN, TICK, etc.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:00:53 PM)
Custom indicator can be used. In fact, NeoTicker won't tell the difference between simulator or a real data vendor

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:01:08 PM)
All operations are exactly the same as when you are using a real time vendor

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:01:46 PM)
You said you can use the simulator for real time data...

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:02:12 PM)
Real life data. The data is historical intraday.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:02:51 PM)
Can you run it one a live market as well?

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:03:17 PM)
Could you elaborate the question a bit?

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:04:07 PM)
I want to be clear on this... can I run the simulator on tomorrows data, in real time, (tomorrow of course).

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:04:51 PM)
NeoTicker collects real-time data from your real-time /delayed data vendors, thus your library of tick data can grow easily, is that along your line of the question?

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:05:46 PM)
No... I was wondering if I was testing it live, and see an opportunity and want to go prime time, and actually put money on the line... how hard that would be.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:06:48 PM)
I think I may have misunderstood an earlier portion of your presentation, which is why i wanted to clear it up.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:08:32 PM)
Once you are ready to go live, you can subscribe to a real-time data vendor to use NeoTicker. Yyour NeoTicker environment (charts, quotes, etc.) is exactly the same, the replayed historical data is now replaced with real-time data. And you can use your broker's order interface to place real orders. Its that easy. :)

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:08:40 PM)
Simulation server is more like a tool to make you relive history :)

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:09:00 PM)
Ok, you couldn't go from a simulation to placing and order.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:09:33 PM)
Or, you couldn't place a REAL order from the simulation.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:09:56 PM)
When you place order in simulation, the order is routed to trade simulator. It's not a real broker. The price is filled using historical data.

gbungard (Dec 11, 2003 5:09:57 PM)
Can I place orders within the software to my broker in real time. I use Interactive Brokers.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:10:37 PM)
Real-life broker order placement is being worked on. IB is high on our priority list.

DK_ (Dec 11, 2003 5:11:26 PM)
is the "real life data" just matched-trades data or does it have bid&ask as well?

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:11:33 PM)
We are trying to enable the 3rd party order placement apps to integrate more tightly with NeoTicker. That will give you the best of analysis software and specialized order placement software.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:11:50 PM)
Bid, ask and trade data. All 3.

clayidus (Dec 11, 2003 5:11:58 PM)
I think what Andre wants to know is that he is running the simulator from 9:30 am and suddenly he wishes to change from simulation to live trade mode- Can he place an order fast

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:12:10 PM)
Yes, much better stated than I was able!

clayidus (Dec 11, 2003 5:12:45 PM)
:)

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:12:58 PM)
And I think they covered it!

Gann (Dec 11, 2003 5:13:13 PM)
How about trading future spreads ?

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:13:37 PM)
NeoTicker handle spreads in many ways, whatever you like.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:13:55 PM)
First, you can simply chart the spread using multiple symbols on a chart.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:14:09 PM)
You are running either Simulator or real-time feed. Not both at the same time. For order placement, currently you are doing through the broker's own program anyways.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:14:21 PM)
Second, you can create user define symbols to track spreads :)

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:15:25 PM)
Third, you can construct exotic spreads calculations in your own custom application and feed them into NeoTicker.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:16:15 PM)
Once a spread is defined as a symbol, you can track it and practice trading as if it is other regular symbols.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:17:09 PM)
Re: using your own custom application...

OrangeCat (Dec 11, 2003 5:17:13 PM)
Do you offer a service that translates my Easy Language indicator codes to Visual Basic or Pascal, for use in Neoticker?

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:17:58 PM)
You can contact us privately through sales@tickquest.com to further the discussion. We do offer custom programming services.

gbungard (Dec 11, 2003 5:18:20 PM)
The Tick 16 used in your examples, is that formulated from Tick data ? Is that feature available with software ?

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:19:58 PM)
The TICK16 class of symbols are user defined symbols in NeoTicker. Basically, the SP_TICK16 is the combination of the last 16 ticks of the 500 components of S&P500.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:20:03 PM)
For Tick16, we have a discussion thread on our own forum: http://www.tickquest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=d7646fbad0498716b1a71ae29dfa60dd&threadid=185

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:21:55 PM)
Lawerence, let me ask you a question, more as a trader, it's something Puffy asked, prior to taking off...

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:22:03 PM)
ok

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:22:27 PM)
What are your thoughts on the psychology of simulation and its benefits rather than the mechanics? How should a person go through the replay? Its more than just watching the numbers spin by.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:23:07 PM)
The key is to look for setups. Let me explain that a bit.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:23:35 PM)
Please.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:23:46 PM)
For most beginners, they are not very good at identifying trading setups consistently.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:24:28 PM)
And many setups are not price only. For example, the well known $TICK extremes, divergence, etc.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:25:16 PM)
Thus the simulated environment gives you a feel of the market action at that moment in time. The more you practice, the more you can acquire the feel.

5R08Astang (Dec 11, 2003 5:25:29 PM)
I can see how this can 'train your trading eye'...

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:26:14 PM)
In the old days, we are forced to learn this "reading the market action" by burning money :)

systematic (Dec 11, 2003 5:26:24 PM)
You shouldn't forget to mention that this feature is also a valuable help for system traders/programmers who can verfiy the logic and code of their systems in simulation mode.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:27:40 PM)
yep. that is definitely of great help if you develop your own indicators and/or systems.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:28:26 PM)
When using a simulation, you do have to be honest with yourself. This is true with any type of simulation.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:29:41 PM)
From our experience, most beginners are not well prepared when they first try their hands in trading. Good practicing tools were not available. We are doing our part to see if we can improve the chance a beginner gets in learning to trade.

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:30:11 PM)
The key is making the transition from a training environment to a real world environment as close as possible. I think we achieved that with the SimServer.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:30:46 PM)
We have a flash demo of Simulation Server. The flash demo is a condensed versoin of this presentation. It's at: http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/simserver/

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:31:05 PM)
If you like to try out Simulation Server with NeoTicker. You can download the demo from: http://www.tickquest.com/NeoTicker/downloaddemo.html

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:31:25 PM)
After you installed the demo, to start using Simulation Server, follow Operation Guide>Simulation Server Operation Guide in the document.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:31:32 PM)
The demo includes 2 days of sample data for several symbols. Due to size reason, we can't include more data. But if you subscribe to a data vendor, historical data can be easily obtained.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:32:02 PM)
That's great, Lawrence, guys... thanks so much for joining us today.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:32:26 PM)
And while this chat session may have ended, the discussion doesn't have to. For additional questions and comments, please see the following thread on our message board: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25665

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:32:32 PM)
Good night.

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:32:57 PM)
For those who came late will have a log posted soon at: http://www.elitetrader.com/ch/index.cfm

5R08Astang (Dec 11, 2003 5:33:01 PM)
TY L & L!

5R08Astang (Dec 11, 2003 5:33:31 PM)
Thanks "the Giant"!

Lawrence Chan (Dec 11, 2003 5:33:43 PM)
Thanks for joining us :)

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:33:54 PM)
Thank you!

Andre (Dec 11, 2003 5:34:02 PM)
Jest doin' my part to make the world a better place for traders...

showme (Dec 11, 2003 5:34:12 PM)
Thanks for the info ... I'll try the demo soon.

TQ Louis (Dec 11, 2003 5:34:35 PM)
If you have any questions, you can send it to sales@tickquest.com or support@tickquest.com